Or they thought lute players were damp. Of course in German, that
might mean "steamy."
dt
At 06:35 AM 1/21/2010, you wrote:
>To add to the confusion: 17th c. harpsichord makers added another
>feature called a buff stop that had the opposite effect - it pressed
>leather pads against the strings t
Howard,
--- On Thu, 1/21/10, howard posner wrote:
>
> But I agree with Andrew (if indeed he meant to make this
> point) that
> it's a mistake to extrapolate lute tone from the names of
> harpsichord
> stops, as the opposite conclusions you could draw from the
> English
> lute stop and the French
and hence damps, the
strings). The link with the lute is presumably that it reduces the
otherwise very long sustain of metal strung harpsichords to something
closer to that of a gut strung instrument
MH
--- On Thu, 21/1/10, Andrew Gibbs
wrote:
From: Andrew Gibbs
Subje
Hi lute folks,
my lute teacher in the 1980's, Leif Karlson, co-student of Konrad
Junghänel in Michael Schäffer's class in Cologne, used to joke by the
"harpsichord stop" in his lute: he put a piece of some old string going
over-under-over-under... of the courses of his lute, near the bridge. The
Andrew Gibbs points out:
17th c. harpsichord makers added another
feature called a buff stop that had the opposite effect - it pressed
leather pads against the strings to mute them. French and German
makers called this respectively a 'registre de luth' or 'Lautenzug'.
And asks"
I have no idea w
To add to the confusion: 17th c. harpsichord makers added another
feature called a buff stop that had the opposite effect - it pressed
leather pads against the strings to mute them. French and German
makers called this respectively a 'registre de luth' or 'Lautenzug'.
I have no idea why this would
stupid to figure out
how to produce instruments that were more mellow, rather, this timbre fit the
aesthetic of the time. Although it may be difficult to reconcile this sound
with modern audiences, lute players today should think twice before avoiding it.
Chris
--- On Wed, 1/20/10, A
er wrote:
From: David Tayler
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Thumb rest stroke - 'lute stop' evidence
To: "lute-cs.dartmouth.edu"
Date: Wednesday, 20 January, 2010, 19:07
As far as renaissance goes, the Mueller harpsichord has many of the
qualities of a lute, tone tra
As far as renaissance goes, the Mueller harpsichord has many of the
qualities of a lute, tone transposition and a crank that moves the
plucking point closer to the bridge and closer to the center.
I can imagine that most players would vary their plucking points,
though some would prefer to stay
Agricola wrote:
"... heard a 'Lautenclavicymbel' in Leipzig in about 1740, designed
by Mr. Johann Sebastian Bach and made by Mr. Zacharias Hildebrand,
which was smaller in size than a normal harpsichord but in all other
respects similar. It had two choirs of gut strings, and a so-called
little oct
Martyn,
--- On Wed, 1/20/10, Martyn Hodgson wrote:
> Also note the 'lute stop' or 'theorbo
> stop' on the harpsichord which
> was a row of jacks plucking closer to the
> bridge than the main and
> gives a more brittle and brilliant
> sound.
>
Yes. Also compelling are the contemp
ary
sources needs much more consideration (and as discussed earlier
probably entails significantly lower string tensions than modern
practice). tho' perhaps not to most modern taste as yet
MH
--- On Tue, 19/1/10, chriswi...@yahoo.com wrote:
From: chriswi...@yahoo.com
Su
dwinh...@comcast.net;
praelu...@hotmail.com
> From: chriswi...@yahoo.com
> Subject: [LUTE] Re: Thumb rest stroke
>
> Danny
>
> --- On Tue, 1/19/10, Daniel Shoskes wrote:
>
> >
> >Not sure about your "nearly all our
> > notabl
We don't know that Dowland played thumb over, he could very likely
have played thumb stretched which produces a completely different sound.
Try it, it takes 10 minutes to learn. Stretch your thumb as far as it
will go, so it is taught, like a bow.
And if thumb under, or "inside" or "tips up" is
t;> Date: Tue, 19 Jan 2010 05:10:57 -0800
>> To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu; dwinh...@comcast.net
>> From: chriswi...@yahoo.com
>> Subject: [LUTE] Re: Thumb rest stroke
>>
>> I've seen Paul O'Dette use repeated rest strokes in the bass,
>
guideline I can remember
is from Dowland in Varietie of Lute Lessons where in it was said to play
sweetly? You certainly fill that niche, playing sweetly.
- Original Message -
From: "David Tayler"
To: "lute-cs.dartmouth.edu"
Sent: Tuesday, January 19, 2010 6:26 PM
Su
My recording experience is that on double strings the rest stroke
strikes the strings in sucession, so that there is a very slight
stagger (very slight, but audible and visible in the string
interference pattern), whereas an elliptical stroke with the thumb
resting on both strings and pushing i
technique. I think this
> strikes too close to home for many
> lutenists for whom thumb-under is
> part of the (modern) "identity" of
> what it means to be a "real" lute
> player, as distinct from wannabe
> classical guitarists who thrash
I've usually interpreted rest like finger position when tuning as
damping, although "quilling" pairs would certainly be an option if
you count beats when tuning.
dt
At 05:10 AM 1/19/2010, you wrote:
>I've seen Paul O'Dette use repeated rest strokes in the bass,
>sometimes for fairly fast lines
to rest
>against except the inside of the hand?
>- Original Message - From:
>To:
>Sent: Monday, January 18, 2010 6:34 PM
>Subject: [LUTE] Re: Thumb rest stroke
>
>
>>Do any early sources describe something that could be interpreted
>>as a &q
Hello Dan,
I enjoyed your videos and am impressed by your seeming equal fluency
with both right hand techniques. The sound of the viheuela and lute
are quite different, so I wouldn't say I could make a judgement about
differences in the sound of both techniques. But, as I say, w
...@comcast.net; Ron Andrico
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Thumb rest stroke
Ron,
Good points. I'm working on exactly this point.
The main issue with true thumb-out is getting a decent and - far more
importantly - _consistent_ sound out of the treble strings. There clearly was
a marked
Tue, 1/19/10, Ron Andrico <[2]praelu...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> From: Ron Andrico <[3]praelu...@hotmail.com>
> Subject: [LUTE] Re: Thumb rest stroke
> To: [4]chriswi...@yahoo.com, [5]l...@cs.dartmouth.edu,
[6]dwinh...@comcast.net
> Date: Tuesday, January 1
many lutenists for whom thumb-under is part of the (modern) "identity"
of what it means to be a "real" lute player, as distinct from wannabe classical
guitarists who thrash around on a pear-shaped instrument at ren. fests, etc.
Chris
--- On Tue, 1/19/10, Ron Andrico wro
Well, I have wondered too, if - as I've read - Dowland evolved from
thumb under to thumb over as he played lutes with more courses, why
thumb over is not more commonly used. But then, I definitely hear and
feel a significant difference between the two approaches when I manage
to pla
The thing I find extremely puzzling in the 'awful lot of paintings' you
mention is that, for late 16th and almost all 17th century examples,
there is a nearly uniform depiction of a thumb-out technique, which is
also described clearly in written sources. With one exception, nearly
Thanks, Martin - this makes sense to me.
Ned
--
To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
I am also a bit puzzled by "an unquestionably obvious historical
technique".
RT
- Original Message -
From: "Sauvage Valéry"
To:
Sent: Tuesday, January 19, 2010 12:11 PM
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Thumb rest stroke
Why don't baroque lutenists today use
Why don't baroque lutenists today use what is an unquestionably
obvious historical technique?
My idea about this is : they study how it should be done, then they do how
it is easyer for them... (I'm speaking about pros...)
For me, I'm not sure how it should be done, and I'm doing how I'm
On Jan 19, 2010, at 8:09 AM, Ron Andrico wrote:
> With one exception, nearly
>all our notable baroque lutenists of today use a thumb-under
>technique. This even applies to a lutenist I've seen in a
> recent video
>who is described as never having played renaissance lute. What
> give
0800
> To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu; dwinh...@comcast.net
> From: chriswi...@yahoo.com
> Subject: [LUTE] Re: Thumb rest stroke
>
> I've seen Paul O'Dette use repeated rest strokes in the bass,
sometimes for fairly fast lines that I would take with p-i alter
Hi All,
I have always regarded the rest stroke with the thumb as being a kind of
fundamental, a starting point. It doesn't have to be agressive, it's
just a way of making sure that both strings of a course are struck fully
and at the same time. I was taught (and hence still teach) that the
form the angle of the fingers.
Mark
-Original Message-
From: chriswi...@yahoo.com
To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu; Daniel Winheld
Sent: Tue, Jan 19, 2010 8:10 am
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Thumb rest stroke
I've seen Paul O'Dette use repeated rest strokes in the bass, sometimes f
I've seen Paul O'Dette use repeated rest strokes in the bass, sometimes for
fairly fast lines that I would take with p-i alternating (free) strokes. On
the other hand, I've seen Robert Barto occasionally use rest strokes in the
treble.
There are an awful lot of paintings (especially, but no
No, none of them.
ed
At 05:34 PM 1/18/2010, terli...@aol.com wrote:
>Do any early sources describe something that could be interpreted
>as a "rest stroke" being used on the chanterelle?
>
>
>
>
>
Edward Martin
2817 East 2nd Street
Duluth, Minnesota 55812
e-mail: e...@gamutstrings.com
voice
I don't see how that would be possible, there is nothing to rest against
except the inside of the hand?
- Original Message -
From:
To:
Sent: Monday, January 18, 2010 6:34 PM
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Thumb rest stroke
Do any early sources describe something that could be interpreted
It is not inappropriate to mention here that David practices (and
performs) what he preaches. I had the good fortune to hear him in
concert with the great Baroque oboe player Gonzalo X. Ruiz last
night. If my aging vision serves, I saw him really whanging out all
the low diapasons on his archlu
Thanks to all for your responses. I should have said that I was
thinking only in terms of its being used when playing bass
notes/lines. As to how important to know if Dowland used it, not
terribly. Just curious. I only very recently discovered mention - and
recommendation - of it
A number of ergonomic subtleties here- very dependent on individual
hand/finger/thumb configurations, what lute- shape, size relative to
the player, holding position, stringing- for universal hard & fast
rules (beyond the obvious relating to thumb-index diminutions & not
damping the next course
One could argue that the 13th rule of Le Roy (1568) calls for rest
strokes. And as it was used in Barley that it remained practice.
Or I may be mistaken, again :)
Regards .. mark
On 19 Jan 2010 11:11, "David Tayler" <[1]vidan...@sbcglobal.net>
wrote:
Some teachers teac
gt;
>
>-Original Message-
>From: David R
>To: nedma...@aol.com
>Cc: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
>Sent: Mon, Jan 18, 2010 6:26 pm
>Subject: [LUTE] Re: Thumb rest stroke
>
>
>I think it came into use with the Venetian lutenists from 1500 or
>so. Obviously you ca
Do any early sources describe something that could be interpreted as a "rest
stroke" being used on the chanterelle?
-Original Message-
From: David R
To: nedma...@aol.com
Cc: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Mon, Jan 18, 2010 6:26 pm
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Thumb rest stroke
I think it came into use with the Venetian lutenists from 1500 or
so. Obviously you can't use rest strokes when you're playing thumb-
index diminutions, and you don't want to be damping the string
directly below your thumb if it's supposed to be sounding, but as a
general rule I think that
I speak only from my playing experience and from what I have read here and
in a couple of old Lute sources. If the standard method of playing
diminutions was to alternate between thumb and index finger (early to mid
Sixteenth Century) then it is safe to assume that a thumb rest stroke is not
o
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