Re: Goals and Milestones for LyX3.0

Vincent van Ravesteijn wrote: I don't see what my scheme differs from the current scheme. You make a feature and instead of doing it locally, you do it in a branch (possibly online if you want). When you normally would commit it, now you announce the new branch. The fixes you normally would

Re: Goals and Milestones for LyX3.0

fine i got this feeling the listing in last mail. I just meant to say that there might be a period in which you want to experiment, develop, try-out weird ideas and so forth, without bothering other people, unless they are really really interested. Just like the things you would do normally

Re: Goals and Milestones for LyX3.0

Vincent van Ravesteijn wrote: > I don't see what my scheme differs from the current scheme. You make a feature > and instead of doing it locally, you do it in a branch (possibly > online if you want). > When you normally would commit it, now you announce the new branch. The > fixes you normally

Re: Goals and Milestones for LyX3.0

> fine i got this feeling the listing in last mail. > I just meant to say that there might be a period in which you want to experiment, develop, try-out weird ideas and so forth, without bothering other people, unless they are really really interested. Just like the things you would do normally

Re: Goals and Milestones for LyX3.0

- Less noise in commits: a new feature in SVN sometimes comprises over 20 commits in .. The commits are the beats of LyX's development heart, so why kill them. there is actually something on this. Commits will be still there, just in a less annoying way. its good idea that having some

Re: Goals and Milestones for LyX3.0

On 05/02/2011 03:30 AM, Vincent van Ravesteijn wrote: Intuitively I would might want something like this: Create a branch, work on it, work on it, work on it. When I think the feature is sort of ready or when I want some response or when I want to let others know about it, I mark this branch

Re: Goals and Milestones for LyX3.0

Vincent van Ravesteijn wrote: This is just from the top of my head something that might work nicely. Comments ? Other ideas ? it would be interesting to know how other people do follow the cvs-list. i would be more happy to get higher number of single commits as the time is passing rather

Re: Goals and Milestones for LyX3.0

i would be more happy to get higher number of single commits as the time is passing rather that getting one set of 20 commits, which will make me just roughly skim it. it also makes other react on some design problems earlier than when someone comes out of the blue with 10kb series of

Re: Goals and Milestones for LyX3.0

- Less noise in commits: a new feature in SVN sometimes comprises over 20 commits in >> .. >>> The commits are the beats of LyX's development heart, so why kill them. >> >> there is actually something on this. Commits will be still there, just in a less annoying way. >> >> its good

Re: Goals and Milestones for LyX3.0

On 05/02/2011 03:30 AM, Vincent van Ravesteijn wrote: > Intuitively I would might want something like this: > > Create a branch, work on it, work on it, work on it. When I think > the feature is sort of ready or when I want some response or when > I want to let others know about it, I mark this

Re: Goals and Milestones for LyX3.0

Vincent van Ravesteijn wrote: > This is just from the top of my head something that might work nicely. > > Comments ? Other ideas ? it would be interesting to know how other people do follow the cvs-list. i would be more happy to get higher number of single commits as the time is passing rather

Re: Goals and Milestones for LyX3.0

> > i would be more happy to get higher number of single commits as the time is > passing rather that getting one set of 20 commits, which will make me just > roughly skim it. > > it also makes other react on some design problems earlier than when someone > comes out of the blue with 10kb series

Re: Goals and Milestones for LyX3.0

Peter Kümmel wrote: - Less noise in commits: a new feature in SVN sometimes comprises over 20 commits in .. The commits are the beats of LyX's development heart, so why kill them. there is actually something on this. its good idea that having some final tree where 1 feature=1 commit. its

Re: Goals and Milestones for LyX3.0

On Mon, May 02, 2011 at 12:58:53AM +0200, Pavel Sanda wrote: Peter Kümmel wrote: - Less noise in commits: a new feature in SVN sometimes comprises over 20 commits in .. The commits are the beats of LyX's development heart, so why kill them. there is actually something on this. its

Re: Goals and Milestones for LyX3.0

I think it is a good idea to have commits on a rather fine granularity, such that each commit represents one independent feature, bug fix, or refactoring. A feature can be much smaller than a user-visible feature, for example, just a small enhancement or new function; it may also be a set of new

Re: Goals and Milestones for LyX3.0

Peter Kümmel wrote: >> - Less noise in commits: a new feature in SVN sometimes comprises over 20 >> commits in .. > The commits are the beats of LyX's development heart, so why kill them. there is actually something on this. its good idea that having some "final" tree where 1 feature=1 commit.

Re: Goals and Milestones for LyX3.0

On Mon, May 02, 2011 at 12:58:53AM +0200, Pavel Sanda wrote: > Peter Kümmel wrote: > >> - Less noise in commits: a new feature in SVN sometimes comprises over 20 > >> commits in > .. > > The commits are the beats of LyX's development heart, so why kill them. > > there is actually something on

Re: Goals and Milestones for LyX3.0

I think it is a good idea to have commits on a rather fine granularity, such that each commit represents one independent feature, bug fix, or refactoring. A feature can be much smaller than a user-visible feature, for example, just a small enhancement or new function; it may also be a set of new

Goals and Milestones for LyX3.0

On 26-4-2011 10:13, Abdelrazak Younes wrote: On 04/26/2011 10:11 AM, Vincent van Ravesteijn wrote: On 26-4-2011 9:32, Abdelrazak Younes wrote: On 04/25/2011 07:07 PM, Johannes Wilm wrote: I think this is a non-discussion. Neither one of us can control what Lyx-developers choose to decide in

Re: Goals and Milestones for LyX3.0

On 04/26/2011 10:17 AM, Vincent van Ravesteijn wrote: On 26-4-2011 10:13, Abdelrazak Younes wrote: On 04/26/2011 10:11 AM, Vincent van Ravesteijn wrote: On 26-4-2011 9:32, Abdelrazak Younes wrote: On 04/25/2011 07:07 PM, Johannes Wilm wrote: I think this is a non-discussion. Neither one of

Re: Goals and Milestones for LyX3.0

Le 26/04/2011 10:25, Abdelrazak Younes a écrit : Shouldn't we start with 2.1 first? I guess there will still be 2.0.x bug fix release an that Jürgen will keep maintain them. Yes; no. I'd like to propose that 2.x release are only about GUI improvements and code cleanup. IOW 2.x should keep

Re: Goals and Milestones for LyX3.0

On 04/26/2011 10:29 AM, Jean-Marc Lasgouttes wrote: Le 26/04/2011 10:25, Abdelrazak Younes a écrit : Shouldn't we start with 2.1 first? I guess there will still be 2.0.x bug fix release an that Jürgen will keep maintain them. Yes; no. If not Jürgen then who? You? I'd like to propose that

Re: Goals and Milestones for LyX3.0

Abdelrazak Younes wrote: Yes; no. If not Jürgen then who? You? You. Seriously, this is not decided yet. I have to talk to some people in the next days (I will not write names now so they cannot hide). I'll post some more info here soon. Jürgen

Re: Goals and Milestones for LyX3.0

On 04/26/2011 10:43 AM, Jürgen Spitzmüller wrote: Abdelrazak Younes wrote: Yes; no. If not Jürgen then who? You? You. Bouh!

Re: Goals and Milestones for LyX3.0

Abdelrazak Younes wrote: I'd like to propose that 2.x release are only about GUI improvements and code cleanup. IOW 2.x should keep the file format unchanged. How are you going to do that? No format change? This is not going to happen. Why not? Why should be rush in changing the file

Re: Goals and Milestones for LyX3.0

On 04/26/2011 10:48 AM, Pavel Sanda wrote: Abdelrazak Younes wrote: I'd like to propose that 2.x release are only about GUI improvements and code cleanup. IOW 2.x should keep the file format unchanged. How are you going to do that? No format change? This is not going to happen. Why not? Why

Re: Goals and Milestones for LyX3.0

Abdelrazak Younes wrote: That's also why time between releases are sooo long... 2 or 3 releases every six without file format changes sounds very appealing to the user that I am. To the developer, this means that his pet feature will arrive sooner to the users. The file format change is

Re: Goals and Milestones for LyX3.0

On 04/26/2011 04:48 AM, Pavel Sanda wrote: Abdelrazak Younes wrote: Most active developers (I am not) are already using git AFAIK... i dont think you are right (highly depends on Richard) if we count it on the number of commits. i use git personally but i'm not so excited about the change

Re: Goals and Milestones for LyX3.0

I'm not opposed to moving to git, but I do not use it, and never have, so it would mean some learning here. Well, we'll guide you through. When doing svn-like development, there is not much to learn. If you want to use all git features, you might want to learn, but that's just fun. As said

Re: Goals and Milestones for LyX3.0

On 04/26/2011 05:04 AM, Abdelrazak Younes wrote: On 04/26/2011 10:48 AM, Pavel Sanda wrote: Abdelrazak Younes wrote: I'd like to propose that 2.x release are only about GUI improvements and code cleanup. IOW 2.x should keep the file format unchanged. How are you going to do that? No format

Re: Goals and Milestones for LyX3.0

On 04/26/2011 05:57 AM, Pavel Sanda wrote: Abdelrazak Younes wrote: That's also why time between releases are sooo long... 2 or 3 releases every six without file format changes sounds very appealing to the user that I am. To the developer, this means that his pet feature will arrive sooner to

Re: Goals and Milestones for LyX3.0

On 04/26/2011 02:40 PM, Richard Heck wrote: On 04/26/2011 05:04 AM, Abdelrazak Younes wrote: On 04/26/2011 10:48 AM, Pavel Sanda wrote: Abdelrazak Younes wrote: I'd like to propose that 2.x release are only about GUI improvements and code cleanup. IOW 2.x should keep the file format

Re: Goals and Milestones for LyX3.0

On 04/26/2011 02:45 PM, Richard Heck wrote: On 04/26/2011 05:57 AM, Pavel Sanda wrote: Abdelrazak Younes wrote: That's also why time between releases are sooo long... 2 or 3 releases every six without file format changes sounds very appealing to the user that I am. To the developer, this means

Re: Goals and Milestones for LyX3.0

On 04/26/2011 08:57 AM, Abdelrazak Younes wrote: On 04/26/2011 02:40 PM, Richard Heck wrote: The file format change is _the_ reason why people are kept back with older version of LyX. 2 or 3 years time is OK for a file format change but 6 months is obviously not. The problem here is that

Re: Goals and Milestones for LyX3.0

On Tue, Apr 26, 2011 at 2:57 PM, Abdelrazak Younes you...@lyx.org wrote: I would be glad if we could be more liberal indeed. But then we would also need bug fixing only releases. If you allow some new big features at one point, say 2.0.2  and then declare that 2.0.3 will only be about bug

Re: Goals and Milestones for LyX3.0

I know that I don't really have a vote in this things, but I can't help but jump in on the conversation. So the idea is to have two parallel development trees, basically: One that is devoted to changes that do not touch the file format, like GUI improvements, and one where we can make

Re: Goals and Milestones for LyX3.0

On Apr 26, 2011, at 8:33 AM, Liviu Andronic wrote: One possibility is to use the Xfce numbering scheme: odd for development releases and even for stable releases. For example, 2.0.0 is the major stable release, 2.0.2 is the minor stable release, 2.0.3 is the minor development release. That

Re: Goals and Milestones for LyX3.0

On 04/26/2011 10:34 AM, Rob Oakes wrote: I'm also worried about what effect it might have on the release schedule. Fragmenting the code might also fragment developers. Would all GUI related changes be automatically merged with the non-GUI branch (meaning that all GUI related bugs also end up

Re: Goals and Milestones for LyX3.0

On 26.04.2011 14:37, Vincent van Ravesteijn wrote: I'm not opposed to moving to git, but I do not use it, and never have, so it would mean some learning here. Well, we'll guide you through. When doing svn-like development, there is not much to learn. If you want to use all git features, you

Goals and Milestones for LyX3.0

On 26-4-2011 10:13, Abdelrazak Younes wrote: > On 04/26/2011 10:11 AM, Vincent van Ravesteijn wrote: >> On 26-4-2011 9:32, Abdelrazak Younes wrote: >>> On 04/25/2011 07:07 PM, Johannes Wilm wrote: I think this is a non-discussion. Neither one of us can control what Lyx-developers choose

Re: Goals and Milestones for LyX3.0

On 04/26/2011 10:17 AM, Vincent van Ravesteijn wrote: On 26-4-2011 10:13, Abdelrazak Younes wrote: On 04/26/2011 10:11 AM, Vincent van Ravesteijn wrote: On 26-4-2011 9:32, Abdelrazak Younes wrote: On 04/25/2011 07:07 PM, Johannes Wilm wrote: I think this is a non-discussion. Neither one of

Re: Goals and Milestones for LyX3.0

Le 26/04/2011 10:25, Abdelrazak Younes a écrit : Shouldn't we start with 2.1 first? I guess there will still be 2.0.x bug fix release an that Jürgen will keep maintain them. Yes; no. I'd like to propose that 2.x release are only about GUI improvements and code cleanup. IOW 2.x should keep

Re: Goals and Milestones for LyX3.0

On 04/26/2011 10:29 AM, Jean-Marc Lasgouttes wrote: Le 26/04/2011 10:25, Abdelrazak Younes a écrit : Shouldn't we start with 2.1 first? I guess there will still be 2.0.x bug fix release an that Jürgen will keep maintain them. Yes; no. If not Jürgen then who? You? I'd like to propose that

Re: Goals and Milestones for LyX3.0

Abdelrazak Younes wrote: > > Yes; no. > > If not Jürgen then who? You? You. Seriously, this is not decided yet. I have to talk to some people in the next days (I will not write names now so they cannot hide). I'll post some more info here soon. Jürgen

Re: Goals and Milestones for LyX3.0

On 04/26/2011 10:43 AM, Jürgen Spitzmüller wrote: Abdelrazak Younes wrote: Yes; no. If not Jürgen then who? You? You. Bouh!

Re: Goals and Milestones for LyX3.0

Abdelrazak Younes wrote: >>> I'd like to propose that 2.x release are only about GUI improvements and >>> code cleanup. IOW 2.x should keep the file format unchanged. >> >> How are you going to do that? No format change? This is not going to >> happen. > > Why not? Why should be rush in changing

Re: Goals and Milestones for LyX3.0

On 04/26/2011 10:48 AM, Pavel Sanda wrote: Abdelrazak Younes wrote: I'd like to propose that 2.x release are only about GUI improvements and code cleanup. IOW 2.x should keep the file format unchanged. How are you going to do that? No format change? This is not going to happen. Why not? Why

Re: Goals and Milestones for LyX3.0

Abdelrazak Younes wrote: > That's also why time between releases are sooo long... 2 or 3 releases > every six without file format changes sounds very appealing to the user > that I am. To the developer, this means that his pet feature will arrive > sooner to the users. > > The file format

Re: Goals and Milestones for LyX3.0

On 04/26/2011 04:48 AM, Pavel Sanda wrote: Abdelrazak Younes wrote: Most "active" developers (I am not) are already using git AFAIK... i dont think you are right (highly depends on Richard) if we count it on the number of commits. i use git personally but i'm not so excited about the change

Re: Goals and Milestones for LyX3.0

> I'm not opposed to moving to git, but I do not use it, and never have, so it > would mean some learning here. Well, we'll guide you through. When doing svn-like development, there is not much to learn. If you want to use all git features, you might want to learn, but that's just fun. As said

Re: Goals and Milestones for LyX3.0

On 04/26/2011 05:04 AM, Abdelrazak Younes wrote: On 04/26/2011 10:48 AM, Pavel Sanda wrote: Abdelrazak Younes wrote: I'd like to propose that 2.x release are only about GUI improvements and code cleanup. IOW 2.x should keep the file format unchanged. How are you going to do that? No format

Re: Goals and Milestones for LyX3.0

On 04/26/2011 05:57 AM, Pavel Sanda wrote: Abdelrazak Younes wrote: That's also why time between releases are sooo long... 2 or 3 releases every six without file format changes sounds very appealing to the user that I am. To the developer, this means that his pet feature will arrive sooner to

Re: Goals and Milestones for LyX3.0

On 04/26/2011 02:40 PM, Richard Heck wrote: On 04/26/2011 05:04 AM, Abdelrazak Younes wrote: On 04/26/2011 10:48 AM, Pavel Sanda wrote: Abdelrazak Younes wrote: I'd like to propose that 2.x release are only about GUI improvements and code cleanup. IOW 2.x should keep the file format

Re: Goals and Milestones for LyX3.0

On 04/26/2011 02:45 PM, Richard Heck wrote: On 04/26/2011 05:57 AM, Pavel Sanda wrote: Abdelrazak Younes wrote: That's also why time between releases are sooo long... 2 or 3 releases every six without file format changes sounds very appealing to the user that I am. To the developer, this means

Re: Goals and Milestones for LyX3.0

On 04/26/2011 08:57 AM, Abdelrazak Younes wrote: On 04/26/2011 02:40 PM, Richard Heck wrote: The file format change is _the_ reason why people are kept back with older version of LyX. 2 or 3 years time is OK for a file format change but 6 months is obviously not. The problem here is that

Re: Goals and Milestones for LyX3.0

On Tue, Apr 26, 2011 at 2:57 PM, Abdelrazak Younes wrote: > I would be glad if we could be more liberal indeed. But then we would also > need bug fixing only releases. If you allow some new big features at one > point, say 2.0.2  and then declare that 2.0.3 will only be about bug

Re: Goals and Milestones for LyX3.0

I know that I don't really have a vote in this things, but I can't help but jump in on the conversation. > So the idea is to have two parallel development trees, basically: One that is > devoted to changes that do not touch the file format, like GUI improvements, > and one where we can make

Re: Goals and Milestones for LyX3.0

On Apr 26, 2011, at 8:33 AM, Liviu Andronic wrote: > One possibility is to use the Xfce numbering scheme: odd for > development releases and even for stable releases. For example, 2.0.0 > is the major stable release, 2.0.2 is the minor stable release, 2.0.3 > is the minor development release.

Re: Goals and Milestones for LyX3.0

On 04/26/2011 10:34 AM, Rob Oakes wrote: I'm also worried about what effect it might have on the release schedule. Fragmenting the code might also fragment developers. Would all GUI related changes be automatically merged with the non-GUI branch (meaning that all GUI related bugs also end up

Re: Goals and Milestones for LyX3.0

On 26.04.2011 14:37, Vincent van Ravesteijn wrote: I'm not opposed to moving to git, but I do not use it, and never have, so it would mean some learning here. Well, we'll guide you through. When doing svn-like development, there is not much to learn. If you want to use all git features, you