but Aeneas, when we come right down to it, has not the faintest idea of
what he is doing, historically. for augustus, it is clear that
cleopartra and antony are 'enemies to the state', but aeneas has no
state, and insofar as his state can be equated with the goal of founding
a state, deciding wh
how do you explain the death of Turnus at the
> end of book 12? That was an act that could have been avoided if Aeneas had
> shown the clementia of either Caesar or Augustus, yet he did not- perhaps it
> is the battle within Aeneas to conquer himself. I have great problems
> equating Aeneas with
actually, the more i think about it, the more interesting it gets. if
the gods are seen as personifications of the force of history, then
vulcan, who forges the shield, also in some way forges the new aeneas,
or at least contributes to the forging.
there is a moving away from one's own name tow
<< forwarded by listowner, David Wilson-Okamura >>
Date: Tue, 07 Dec 1999 19:29:49 -0600
From: "Bruce R. Magee" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
It's not a distraction; it's an ekphrasis! The idea of the ekphrasis of
the shield goes back to Homer, of course, and description of Achilles'
shield. You might re
<< message forwarded by listowner, David Wilson-Okamura >>
From: "Michael-janck Snydert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Wed, 08 Dec 1999 11:18:05 UZT
Walter Pater's _Renaissance_, pearhalves?
>Original Message Follows
>From: "ERIN MONK" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>To: [E
matthewspencer schrieb:
>
>
> how do you explain the death of Turnus at the
> > end of book 12? That was an act that could have been avoided if Aeneas had
> > shown the clementia of either Caesar or Augustus, yet he did not- perhaps it
> > is the battle within Aeneas to conquer himself. I have gre
<< message forwarded by listowner, David Wilson-Okamura >>
From: "Timothy Mallon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Wed, 08 Dec 1999 11:09:51 PST
Remember though, that the *Homeric* Odysseus (presumably the one whom Aeneas
shadows in the first half of the A.) is neither bad nor unwise.
The idea of a ch
> what shall this brackets-salad mean? word-by-word-translation?
> who kills whom can be seen by "illi" - in those brackets translated with
> "his",
> but it has the direction to the "other" person: demonstrative pronoun >to the
> distant person.
> "illi" (Dativ) means the enemy, Turnus.
> the
The reason Hans thinks it is an unfinished work is because it is. Aside form
the several half lines throughout the poem (I believe eight), Virgil himself
asked his friends to destroy the work on his death bed because he felt it
could not be published (it was Augustus who stopped this from happe
It is not just the pronoun "illi" but the particle "ast" in the lines in
question which assure us that the logical subject has switched from Aeneas
to Turnus, and thus that it is Turnus who dies. A better place to start
from if you want to look for reflections of Aeneas' character in dying
Turnus
<< message forwarded by listowner, David Wilson-Okamura >>
Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1999 16:16:13 -0600 (CST)
From: Rich Guerra <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
I think actually looking upon a visual representation of the
shield would help me understand it's signi
<< message forwarded by listowner, David Wilson-Okamura >>
From: "Paul O. Wendland" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1999 17:53:27 -0600
> A better place to start
> from if you want to look for reflections of Aeneas' character in dying
> Turnus is the nice parallel between Turnus' limbs being
>The reason Hans thinks it is an unfinished work is because it is. Aside form
>the several half lines throughout the poem (I believe eight),
Fifty-eight, if my count is correct.
++
Gregory Hays
Dept. of Classics, University of Virginia
401 Cabell Hall
P.O. Box 400788
Charlott
The trajectory of the Aeneid seems complete, although the poem is
unfinished.
I think Aeneas does distance himself from the killing of Turnus - indeed he
even gives up his own agency in claiming that Pallas is the killer and
avenger.
Since Philip Thibodeau brought up an interesting echo on the ph
14 matches
Mail list logo
