[Marxism-Thaxis] Further focus on Engels definition of materialism

2006-01-12 Thread Charles Brown
1) With Kant the issue is, the correct characterization of his views (which is very hard), and the incorrect characterization, as a sort of Berkeleyean (which is easy). CB: Lenin and Engels are very clear on the differences and similarities between Kant and Berkeley. They are also quite

Re: [Marxism-Thaxis] Further focus on Engels definition of materialism

2006-01-12 Thread Jim Farmelant
On Wed, 11 Jan 2006 22:54:41 -0800 (PST) andie nachgeborenen [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: --- Ralph Dumain [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is truly remarkable puzzlement for a professional philosopher. An ex-professional now. But what's puzzling about it? The whole point of

[Marxism-Thaxis] Further focus on Engels definition of materialism

2006-01-11 Thread Charles Brown
Well, I still don't know what materialism in this context. Presumably it doesn't mean that there is nothing but matter, because the denial of that view is not idealism but dualism or nonreductionism or the claim that there are emergent properties -- any of which Berkeley might accept.Indeed,

Re: [Marxism-Thaxis] Further focus on Engels definition of materialism

2006-01-11 Thread andie nachgeborenen
Well, spirit and nature are not transparent terms either, not is primacy, so it's not much help to say that idealists make spirit primary to nature and materialists vice versa. This is a Hegelian-flavored formula that is highly specific to a narrow philosophical tradition. Moreover, Engels mixes

[Marxism-Thaxis] Further focus on Engels definition of materialism

2006-01-11 Thread Charles Brown
Well, spirit and nature are not transparent terms either, not is primacy, so it's not much help to say that idealists make spirit primary to nature and materialists vice versa. This is a Hegelian-flavored formula that is highly specific to a narrow philosophical tradition. CB; On the one

Re: [Marxism-Thaxis] Further focus on Engels definition of materialism

2006-01-11 Thread Ralph Dumain
This is truly remarkable puzzlement for a professional philosopher. At 08:22 AM 1/11/2006 -0800, andie nachgeborenen wrote: Well, spirit and nature are not transparent terms either, not is primacy, so it's not much help to say that idealists make spirit primary to nature and materialists vice

Re: [Marxism-Thaxis] Further focus on Engels definition of materialism

2006-01-11 Thread andie nachgeborenen
Sort of up against the wall with two deadlines, so very briefly 1) With Kant the issue is, the correct characterization of his views (which is very hard), and the incorrect characterization, as a sort of Berkeleyean (which is easy). This matters for lots of reasons, undewrstanding the context

Re: [Marxism-Thaxis] Further focus on Engels definition of materialism

2006-01-11 Thread andie nachgeborenen
--- Ralph Dumain [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is truly remarkable puzzlement for a professional philosopher. An ex-professional now. But what's puzzling about it? The whole point of philosophical training is to get confused at deeper and deeper levers. At 08:22 AM 1/11/2006 -0800, andie