Re: [uf-discuss] Use-check: rel="enclosure" attribute

> Yes and no. I'm not sure of who supports rel-enclosure and I'm not > aware of any tools that would make use of the enclosure in this case. > If there were tools (like a browser that supported enclosures), > however, this could be very useful. For SPIP (a Web publication tool) we decided to

[uf-discuss] there appears to be a calm in the species/currency/mars storm

In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Benjamin West <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes >I hope that clears things up Thank you. It doesn't. -- Andy Mabbett Say "NO!" to compulsory ID Cards: Free Our Data: _

Re: [uf-discuss] there appears to be a calm in the species/currency/mars storm

On 10/18/06, Andy Mabbett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Benjamin West <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes >I hope that clears things up Thank you. It doesn't. It's just word-play fun. Not a personal attack (which I assume is what you're getting at, since you're taking per

[uf-discuss] Size considerations

Is is considered better to have longer, easier-to-read, more descriptive, more semantically correct attribute values over shorter, more concise, bandwidth-saving ones? On small pages, a few extra bytes of HTML won't make a big difference, but on very large pages (in terms of markup), all those ex

Re: [uf-discuss] hCalendar spec- no specification included!

I really like this idea. What if the landing page for the microformat wasn't the spec but it was some warm and fuzzy intro for newbies? It could then link to the spec for those that were interested to it. A good example of this would be the W3C WAI's intro for WCAG that they give you before y

[uf-discuss] hResume - Marking up experience and "present" date

Hi List, Another newbie question: I'm marking up my CV using hResume, and I'm a little uncertain about how best to combine hCard and hCalendar classes to mark up experience.[1] Right now, I'm using the following markup: Web Developer, http://chnm.gmu.edu";>Center for History and New

[uf-discuss] rel-nofollow or equivalent for Citation format

Hi List, I've been trying to catch up on the citation microformat discussion. Very good stuff! It seems like there would some use for the rel-nofollow microformat (or some equivalent) to it in the citation microformat, so that citations can better express how much weight or authority is g

Re: [uf-discuss] hResume - Marking up experience and "present" date

Is this a correct way of marking this up? Are there better options? I want to make sure I have the uses of hCard and hCalendar correct, with regards to hResume. In iCal (and therefore presumably hCal), the following rule applies for events that lack a DTEND or DURATION: "For cases where a "VE

Re: [uf-discuss] rel-nofollow or equivalent for Citation format

I think you have pointed out one of the great things about Microformats. Each can be used independently of each other. If you want rel="nofollow" you are more than welcome to use that on ANY microformat, it doesn't need to be baked into the citation. You could so something like: http://en.wikipe

[uf-discuss] Microformats and the semantic web

This is my latest idea in terms of leveraging microformats- still halfway between concept and real code at this stage: http://www.absalom.biz/tutorials/SOMU_Semantic_model.html Reviews and comments welcome. Thanks Lawrence ___ microformats-discuss mail

Re: [uf-discuss] Size considerations

Given that mF are based on convention, I think it first depends on what people are discovered to already be doing. In fact, long ago I argued for renaming hcard to hperson or some other more widely meaningful class but was shot down owing to the formats foundation in vcard. I wasn't necessarily w

Re: [uf-discuss] hCalendar spec- no specification included!

Justin, Would you mind visiting and adding your support? While we're on the subject of newbies, if they first hear about microformats from the sources you mentioned, what kind of people are they? Are they graphic designers? Web develo

Re: [uf-discuss] Size considerations

Should this stuff be in a FAQ or be made into a uF principle page? On 10/18/06, Charles Roper <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Is is considered better to have longer, easier-to-read, more descriptive, more semantically correct attribute values over shorter, more concise, bandwidth-saving ones? On sma

Re: [uf-discuss] Size considerations

On Oct 18, 2006, at 6:49 AM, Charles Roper wrote: Is is considered better to have longer, easier-to-read, more descriptive, more semantically correct attribute values over shorter, more concise, bandwidth-saving ones? I consider semantics more important than length. This comes up enough tha

Re: [uf-discuss] Size considerations

Scott Reynen wrote: I agree with all of this, but I think a more fundamental issue is that this problem is always presented as a hypothetical, and we shouldn't spend out time trying to solve hypothetical problems. We know readability is a problem when someone can't understand something. We'll

RE: [uf-discuss] "Lightweight Data Access Services" and Well DesignedUrls

Klaus: Thanks again for your very detailed reply. BUT be careful of Well Known Location issues. >> >> Can you give me examples? I googled "Well Known Location" and didn't >> find anything that seemed relevent. >> >> http://example.org/robots.txt >> http://example.org/favicon.ico >> http://

RE: title attribute and abbreviated classnames(Was:[uf-discuss]Currency Quickpoll: Preliminary results)

>> $5.99 >> I still think this is bad semantics. I don't think "USD" is really a title >> for "$5.99". I'll accept that. >> I'd propose this as an alternative: >> $5.99 Okay... But is it a good idea to have a microformat as a prefix/suffix instead of as a container? (general question - I

RE: [uf-discuss] hCalendar spec- no specification included!

>> I don't think anyone has said that. I certainly don't think people should be encouraged to begin authoring before first understanding what the are nad are not "allowed" to do (unless by "authoring" you mean "fill in a form and let a machine do the authoring for you") A form would be nice, but i

RE: RE: [uf-discuss] "Casual Web Services" and Well Designed Urls

Thanks for the input. >> but beware of the costs of creating "reserved"/"manditory" structures. Can you elaborate? Maybe with examples? -Mike -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brian Suda Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 9:26 AM To: Micro

Re: [uf-discuss] hCalendar spec- no specification included!

Ben, I will try and get to the IA page tonite and see if I can add some comments and thoughts. I think the people reading the articles about microformats and jumping into the spec cold are the early adoptor web developers. My uneducated opinion is that microformats is a fairly new movement.

Re: [uf-discuss] hCalendar spec- no specification included!

On 10/18/06, Mike Schinkel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: A form would be nice, but it takes time to develop and we can't expect they will be developed before people are interested. Actually this is already done. There are generators/creators/___-o-matics or whatever the current term is for hRevie

Re: [uf-discuss] hCalendar spec- no specification included!

Justin, Great input. Let me see if I can summarize it in bullet form: * Bleeding Edge Adopters * Looking for new things * Might be looking/adopting things for the sake of coolness/newness * uF's seem new and cool? * Probably little exposure to uF (did they see it mentioned in a blog, sea

Re: [uf-discuss] Size considerations

Added to the wiki: http://microformats.org/wiki/faq#Class_semantics Q. How will microformat class names impact page size? A. You probably won't notice any impact on page size when authoring with microformats. Our experience is that people use comparably sized class names, and semantic class name

[uf-discuss] there appears to be a calm in the species/currency/mars storm

In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Frances Berriman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes >IRC is light-hearted. It's also archived in perpetuity > Maybe you should stop in and interact. I don't use IRC. -- Andy Mabbett Say "NO!" to compulsory ID Cards:

Re: [uf-discuss] hCalendar spec- no specification included!

In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Mike Schinkel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes >>> I don't think anyone has said that. I certainly don't think people should >be encouraged to begin authoring before first understanding what the >are nad are not "allowed" to do (unless by "authoring" you mean "fill >in a

Re: [uf-discuss] hCalendar spec- no specification included!

In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Justin Thorp <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes >I would expect that a lot of newbies start off hearing about >microformats on tutorials [...] >They get linked to the spec and then get offly confused. Not least, as I have soda previously, because what is labelled as the sp

Re: [uf-discuss] hCalendar spec- no specification included!

In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Justin Thorp <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes >the 50 year old web systems programmer who may be slow to adopting >(stubborn) new technologies but was told by his boss he has to look at >the business applications of adopting microformats. There's nothing like a bit of ag

Re: [uf-discuss] hCalendar spec- no specification included!

In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Benjamin West <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes >* Bleeding Edge Adopters > * Looking for new things > * Might be looking/adopting things for the sake of coolness/newness > * uF's seem new and cool? > * Probably little exposure to uF (did they see it mentioned in a >blog

Re: [uf-discuss] hCalendar spec- no specification included!

On 10/18/06, Andy Mabbett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: You forgot: Actually, I was summarizing and synthesizing, not forgetting. * Veteran Experts * Looking for new things * Might be looking/adopting things for the sake of coolness/newness * uF's seem new and cool? * Probably little expo

RE: [uf-discuss] hCalendar spec- no specification included!

Benjamin: As one data point, I learned about Microformats[1] at a conference[2]. When I came to the site I wanted to learn how to author them. In addition, I wanted to learn how to get involved in the process of specifying new ones (although I doubt only a small percentage will be interested in t

Re: [uf-discuss] hCalendar spec- no specification included!

In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Benjamin West <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes >> You forgot: > >Actually, I was summarizing and synthesizing, not forgetting. The "you" was collective. >>* Veteran Experts >> * Looking for new things >> * Might be looking/adopting things for the sake of coolness/newn

[uf-discuss] Unclear status of 'include-pattern'

As I noted on the Wiki a few hours ago, it's not clear, either from the main Wiki page or include-pattern, whether the latter is an agreed standard, a draft, or just a proposal. -- Andy Mabbett Say "NO!" to compulsory ID Cards: Free Our D

Re: [uf-discuss] Unclear status of 'include-pattern'

On 10/18/06 3:56 PM, "Andy Mabbett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > As I noted on the Wiki a few hours ago, it's not clear, either from the > main Wiki page or include-pattern, whether the latter is an agreed > standard, a draft, or just a proposal. It is currently listed in the "Design Patterns"

RE: [uf-discuss] hCalendar spec- no specification included!

>> Actually this is already done. There are generators/creators/___-o-matics or whatever the current term is for hReview, hAtom, hCard, and hCalendar, AFAIK. I believe they are all linked to from their respective wiki page. The point is there isn't necessarily one for a new spec. Until someone b

Re: [uf-discuss] Size considerations

In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Charles Roper <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes >Is is considered better to have longer, easier-to-read, more >descriptive, more semantically correct attribute values over shorter, >more concise, bandwidth-saving ones? Its not the length, its what you do with it ;-) As i

Re: [uf-discuss] Size considerations

In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Scott Reynen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes >> Is is considered better to have longer, easier-to-read, more >> descriptive, more semantically correct attribute values over shorter, >> more concise, bandwidth-saving ones? >>on very large pages (in terms of markup), all

Re: [uf-discuss] hCalendar spec- no specification included!

> >I'm not sure this helps. I'm sure it does. heh >This essentially washes out the picture of two types of users. Perhaps; though it chiefly avoids the useless labelling of them. Or do you have evidence that "veteran experts" never look for new things, or "bleeding edge adapters" never fulfi

Re: [uf-discuss] hCalendar spec- no specification included!

On 10/18/06 4:04 PM, "Mike Schinkel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > My point was simply to be careful not to overwhelm the user with text on a > intro page as it has been proven people scan web pages instead of reading > them[1]. Less will be more here. Justin presents this[2] as an example, but >

RE: [uf-discuss] hCalendar spec- no specification included!

>> We can't expect people to use something for which there is no spec! And we can't expect a form to be developed when there isn't a spec either. I don't need to; the simple version works much better for me and is all I need. Something that tells the average Joe how to author in >>

RE: [uf-discuss] Size considerations

Has there been any thought to try and survey the web development community at large on these types of issues? I could see the value of having a lot of these types of questions answered if we were do present surveys (of course hopefully we could find a surveying expert to help us make sure we were

Re: [uf-discuss] Size considerations

In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Benjamin West <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes >Added to the wiki: http://microformats.org/wiki/faq#Class_semantics > >Q. How will microformat class names impact page size? I added supplementary, and factual, answer, but it's been summarily and immediately reverted by Ta

Re: [uf-discuss] Unclear status of 'include-pattern'

In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Tantek Çelik <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes >On 10/18/06 3:56 PM, "Andy Mabbett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> >> As I noted on the Wiki a few hours ago, it's not clear, either from the >> main Wiki page or include-pattern, whether the latter is an agreed >> standard,

Re: [uf-discuss] hCalendar spec- no specification included!

The point is there isn't necessarily one for a new spec. Until someone builds one. No worries here. I'm commited to doing this. See my todo list. Is there any that are missing? So my point was I wouldn't see a generators/creators as the entry point for a microformat, that's all. Ah, ok. S

RE: [uf-discuss] Size considerations

>> A. You probably won't notice any impact on page size when authoring with microformats. In many cases, I agree. But let's look at some of the proposals for money (forgive me if my example is not exactly what was proposed, but it should be equivalent in # of characters used). The following is 6

RE: [uf-discuss] hCalendar spec- no specification included!

Justin: Very good organization! JMTCW. -Mike -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Justin Thorp Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 4:57 PM To: microformats-discuss@microformats.org Subject: Re: [uf-discuss] hCalendar spec- no specification incl

RE: [uf-discuss] Microformats and the semantic web

One quick comment. You use a text box on "SOMU - Brainstorming" Can you make it large enough so that the presentation will print out w/o omitting part of the example? TIA. -Mike -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Absalom Media Sent: Wednesda

Re: [uf-discuss] hCalendar spec- no specification included!

In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Benjamin West <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes >> See my reply to the same post, by Justin Thorp, to which you were >> replying. > >There was no content in that post. Try a working mail client, then. -- Andy Mabbett Say "NO!" to compulsory ID Cards:

Re: [uf-discuss] Size considerations

In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Andy Mabbett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes >>Added to the wiki: http://microformats.org/wiki/faq#Class_semantics >> >>Q. How will microformat class names impact page size? > >I added supplementary, and factual, answer, but it's been summarily and >immediately reverted

Re: [uf-discuss] Size considerations

On Oct 18, 2006, at 6:34 PM, Mike Schinkel wrote: The following is 6 characters: $54.97 This is 151 characters (according to MS-Word's stats dialog): $ 54.97 So let's think about a price matri

[uf-discuss] Design-patterns: mystery meat?

It appears that, nowhere on the Wiki, is the concept of a "design-pattern" defined or explained. leastways, nowhere easy to find, or linked to from the specific examples I looked at. -- Andy Mabbett Say "NO!" to compulsory ID Cards: Free

RE: [uf-discuss] hCalendar spec- no specification included!

>> That's actually not true. The spec is the most important thing to people *implementing* the spec. Opps, you caught my lack of meticulousness! I was focusing on making the point that where were many classes of people each potentially interested in something different and was otherwise being

Re: title attribute and abbreviated classnames(Was:[uf-discuss]Currency Quickpoll: Preliminary results)

On 10/18/06, Mike Schinkel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> $5.99 >> I still think this is bad semantics. I don't think "USD" is really a title for "$5.99". I'll accept that. >> I'd propose this as an alternative: >> $5.99 What happened to: $5.99 Does that solve the whole problem and give us

RE: [uf-discuss] hCalendar spec- no specification included!

>> See my todo list. Suggestion: can you be sure to include the actual URL of any referenced item in any emails to make sure I can actually find it. :) >> Do you think you can do a refinement of your categories on the to-do list? Can you also enumerate the categories of content generally availa

Re: [uf-discuss] hCalendar spec- no specification included!

On 10/18/06 4:54 PM, "Mike Schinkel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Opps, you caught my lack of meticulousness! No problem at all Mike. Just want to clear that up. ;) >>> Thanks for this feedback Mike - you make very good points. > > Thanks in return. It is nice to know when one's efforts are ap

Re: [uf-discuss] hCalendar spec- no specification included!

Mike, But I'm so lazy. Point taken, I'll include more URI's when I should. Mike, your comments are under . I did the hAtom creator and am interested in further work on the creators. If t

Re: [uf-discuss] Size considerations

In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Andy Mabbett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes >In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Andy Mabbett ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes > >>>Added to the wiki: http://microformats.org/wiki/faq#Class_semantics >>> >>>Q. How will microformat class names impact page size? >> >>I added suppl

Re: [uf-discuss] Size considerations

In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Mike Schinkel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes >>> A. You probably won't notice any impact on page size when authoring with >microformats. > >In many cases, I agree. But Careful... -- Andy Mabbett Say "NO!" to compulsory ID Cards:

Re: title attribute and abbreviated classnames(Was:[uf-discuss]Currency Quickpoll: Preliminary results)

On Oct 18, 2006, at 6:54 PM, Stephen Paul Weber wrote: >> I'd propose this as an alternative: >> $5.99 What happened to: $5.99 I continue to prefer that, but I think Mike is pushing for less verbose markup, and I'm trying to explore how less verbose markup could communicate the same inf

Re: [uf-discuss] Size considerations

In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Scott Reynen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes >It would be helpful to look at some real-world markup so we can come >up with practical ways to address this concern. I've just posted real markup on the Wiki, to illustrate this very issue, and had summarily removed and it

Re: [uf-discuss] Size considerations

In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Mike Schinkel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes >forgive me if my example is not exactly what was proposed, but it >should be equivalent in # of characters used). The following is 6 >characters: > > $54.97 > >This is 151 characters (according to MS-Word's stats dialo

Re: [uf-discuss] Size considerations

On Oct 18, 2006, at 7:16 PM, Andy Mabbett wrote: Scott Reynen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes It would be helpful to look at some real-world markup so we can come up with practical ways to address this concern. I've just posted real markup on the Wiki I should have been more clear. I'd like t

Re: [uf-discuss] "Lightweight Data Access Services" and Well DesignedUrls

Stop :) You asked me about microformats, I replied about microformats. My answer would have been the same for RDFa. Le 19 oct. 2006 à 05:41, Mike Schinkel a écrit : For users: 5% useful, 95% dangerous. Although I would like for you to explain this in detail, it needs to be elsewhere. Still

Re: [uf-discuss] Size considerations

In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Scott Reynen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes >On Oct 18, 2006, at 7:16 PM, Andy Mabbett wrote: > >> Scott Reynen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes >> >>> It would be helpful to look at some real-world markup so we can come >>> up with practical ways to address this concern. >>

[uf-discuss] Who owns your user page?

I've been blocked from editing the Wiki, for reverting changes made by another user, to comments expressing my personal views, on MY user page. I'd asked the person concerned , in previous edit summaries, to desist from putting words into my mouth, but they'd ignored that. Their edit summaries

Re: [uf-discuss] Who owns your user page?

On Oct 18, 2006, at 9:20 PM, Andy Mabbett wrote: On Wikipedia, any administrator who blocked someone with whom they had been involved in an "edit war", or who tried to repeatedly edit another user's user-page, would be liable to loosing their admin. rights. Well that's just not going to h

RE: [uf-discuss] Size considerations

>> Who is publishing 10 columns and 100 rows of prices or something similar? Ask, and ye shall receive. I have included four lists of URLs below my signature. The first list is of very large price lists from the web. Some are in PDF and/or XLS formats, but I would argue one of the things Microfo

RE: [uf-discuss] hCalendar spec- no specification included!

>> Point taken, I'll include more URI's when I should. Thanks. >> If there is a creator missing, I'll gladly come up with something. That said, I'll use this as an opening to pose a question that I've been wanting to pose since I haven't gotten all my thoughts 100% sorted on the subject, but I c

RE: [uf-discuss] Size considerations

Another point I forgot to make earlier, is I suspect a lot of price list are put together by hand. It's one thing to have lots of markup within a loop generated by an .ASPX or a .PHP file, but it is probably another if someone needs to do it by hand. And I'll bet often times that someone isn't a h

Re: [uf-discuss] "Casual Web Services" and Well Designed Urls

On 10/14/06, Mike Schinkel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I recently started working on a project I'm calling "Well Designed Urls" Cool. I was inspired by your project to do this write up: http://gonze.com/weblog/story/prettyuri -Lucas ___ microformats-

Re: [uf-discuss] licensing

There are now -examples, -formats, and -brainstorming pages somewhat fleshed out and linked from http://microformats.org/wiki/licensing I'd love comments on form or substance. There are some narrow questions on -brainstorming but broadside critiques are wanted and warranted too. I think I will s

[uf-discuss] Wiki markup for "

Hi all: I just had a bad experience in trying to enhance some examples at http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard-faq#X2V_does_not_convert_email_with_name_as_plain_text I wanted to create a "live example" on the Wiki, i.e. use actual Microformats in an example so that Microformat enabled browsers w

Re: [uf-discuss] Microformats and the semantic web

Hello Lawrence, What is "Design Piracy"? (It's mentioned on slide 1 or 12.) See ya On 10/18/06, Absalom Media <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: This is my latest idea in terms of leveraging microformats- still halfway between concept and real code at this stage: http://www.absalom.biz/tutorials/SO

RE: title attribute and abbreviatedclassnames(Was:[uf-discuss]Currency Quickpoll: Preliminary results)

>> What happened to: >> $> class="amount">5.99 I brought up the issue of the markup being large and complex to implement, and so we were discussing suggestions about how to potential streamline the markup. -Mike -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Be

Re: [uf-discuss] Design-patterns: mystery meat?

On 10/19/06, Andy Mabbett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: It appears that, nowhere on the Wiki, is the concept of a "design-pattern" defined or explained. Design Patterns aren't a uF-specific concept. Maybe rather than trying to write a definition, a link out to Wikipedia or somewhere similar woul