Re: death of the net predicted by deloitte -- film at 11

On 2/13/07, Hank Nussbacher <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I've seen this in action as far back as 1998 and just don't quite grok why it never took off. Let me paraphrase a couple folks who summed it all up very nicely: "So assuming router state based multicast, how do you bill on that if the str

Re: death of the net predicted by deloitte -- film at 11

On Mon, 12 Feb 2007, Peter Beckman wrote: NBC can now stream their shows to me as a .mp4 and I could grab them as fast as they could send it, rather than in realtime. They might offer the same stream at different data rates: 1mbps, 5mbps, 10mbps, 30mbps (for those of us lucky enough to have Ve

Re: Every incident is an opportunity

warning-- this thread is so far off topic, i can't even REMEMBER a topic that it might once have had. hit D now.  [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Barry Shein) writes: > ... If your goal is invasion then value preservation is important > (factories, bridges, civilian infrastructure, etc.) ... so if the las

Major outage in Montreal, Canada

Hi, For thoses that are affected by the fiber outage that currently takes place in Montreal, I've got some clues. It could take some time to repair, as they are currently trying to localise the failure location. The SRDP (http://www.srdptele.com/) is working with the CSEM (http://www.csem.qc.ca)

Re: Request for topic death on Cold War history (was "RE: Every incident is an opportunity")

Alexander Harrowell wrote: Causality? WW2=>nukes, cold war=>arpanet=>internet, surely? Heh. We're that > < close to invoking Godwin's Law here. :-) On 2/12/07, *micky coughes* <[EMAIL PROTECTED] > wrote: Hmm, let's see. Nukes => cold war => arpanet =

Re: Request for topic death on Cold War history (was "RE: Every incident is an opportunity")

>>> On 2/12/2007 at 3:13 PM, "Alexander Harrowell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Causality? WW2=>nukes, cold war=>arpanet=>internet, surely? Hitler=>WW2=>... Godwin! Please? Anyway, we all know Al Gore invented the Internet. > On 2/12/07, micky coughes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >> >> Hmm,

Re: Request for topic death on Cold War history (was "RE: Every incident is an opportunity")

Come on guys... Some more originality please... Internet--->Al-Qaeda fundraising>Afghanistan--->USSR vs. US>Cold war> Arpanet---> Internet. Vicious cycle. -mike On 2/12/07, Alexander Harrowell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Causality? WW2=>nukes, cold war=>arpanet=>internet, surely?

Re: Request for topic death on Cold War history (was "RE: Every incident is an opportunity")

Causality? WW2=>nukes, cold war=>arpanet=>internet, surely? On 2/12/07, micky coughes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Hmm, let's see. Nukes => cold war => arpanet => internet Yup, looks ok. On 2/12/07, Olsen, Jason <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Of course, but the point was the goal of that ta

Re: Every incident is an opportunity (was Re: Hackers hit key Internet traffic computers)

On Mon, Feb 12, 2007 at 12:50:20PM +0100, Per Heldal wrote: > > On Mon, 2007-02-12 at 10:13 +0100, Stephane Bortzmeyer wrote: > > Sure, just find these few simple things that will actually improve > > security. (My personal one would be "Erase MS-Windows and install > > Ubuntu". If we are ready t

Re: Request for topic death on Cold War history (was "RE: Every incident is an opportunity")

Hmm, let's see. Nukes => cold war => arpanet => internet Yup, looks ok. On 2/12/07, Olsen, Jason <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Of course, but the point was the goal of that targetting. The > US public by and large believed, and seems to still believe [snip] > If anniliation is the goal

Re: Every incident is an opportunity

On Mon, 12 Feb 2007 17:12:56 -0500 Barry Shein <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Of course, but the point was the goal of that targetting. The US > public by and large believed, and seems to still believe (i.e., the TV > show Jericho) that the goal of a USSR attack was purely vindictive, > complete

Request for topic death on Cold War history (was "RE: Every incident is an opportunity")

> Of course, but the point was the goal of that targetting. The > US public by and large believed, and seems to still believe [snip] > If anniliation is the goal than it's of no importance, just > bomb the densest population centers. To borrow from snarky comments past: Unless Vendor C

Re: Every incident is an opportunity

Of course, but the point was the goal of that targetting. The US public by and large believed, and seems to still believe (i.e., the TV show Jericho) that the goal of a USSR attack was purely vindictive, complete annhilation. Apparently Civil Defense leaned more towards invasion as a goal. No do

Re: death of the net predicted by deloitte -- film at 11

--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ... A recent report from Deloitte said 2007 could be the year the internet approaches capacity, with demand outstripping supply. It predicted bottlenecks in some of the net's backbones as the amount of data overwhelms the size of the pipes. ... Beware, the end is

Re: Every incident is an opportunity

On Mon, 12 Feb 2007 15:05:45 -0500 Barry Shein <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > In the late 60s I remember having an interesting conversation with > someone who did this kind of strategizing for the Dept of Civil > Defense. > > His scenarios were markedly diferent from the "urban folklore" you'd >

Re: Every incident is an opportunity

On February 12, 2007 at 04:28 [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Robert Bonomi) wrote: Mostly the same as what I said, but one important difference: duck and cover was a response to seeing the flash (only seconds), not to sirens going off (minutes) which was generally get your coat and go into the hallway and c

Re: motivating security ....

Let's look at the cost factor of using Windows in a quick dirty fashion and why you have to love their scheme. On top of ripping you off, they'd like to sell you security atop of the garbage they've already flooded the world with. 1 Corporate office 2000 users * 75.00 per WinXP professional 5

Re: death of the net predicted by deloitte -- film at 11

On Mon, 12 Feb 2007, Paul Vixie wrote: I never quite understood why layered multicast never took off which would solved the problems you state above. There have been so many research papers on the subject from the late 90s that I would have thought that by now IPmc would be the silver bullet f

Re: death of the net predicted by deloitte -- film at 11

> nothing can help, or for that matter save, the phoneco atm network. atm and frame relay do not need saving. they tend to be profitable. but the everything over mpls folk are managing to save them anyway, turning operating profit into capital expense to the vendors. brilliant. randy

Re: Every incident is an opportunity (was Re: Hackers hit key Internet traffic computers)

> > During the cold war American kids > > were trained to hide beneath their desktops in caseof a nuclear > > attack. Much good that would have done. ... >I don't pretend to know the real reason but keeping control is usually >better even if you can't change the outcome. The goal was some pr

Re: death of the net predicted by deloitte -- film at 11

[EMAIL PROTECTED] ("Geo.") writes: > Multicast isn't going to help the phoneco atm network. ... nothing can help, or for that matter save, the phoneco atm network. -- Paul Vixie

Re: motivating security, was Re: Every incident...

On Mon, 12 Feb 2007, Edward Lewis wrote: My point is that it is convenient to blame this on the consumers when the problem is that the technology is still just half-baked. I wonder if anyone has tried to quantify in economic terms, the worldwide army of people/products/services that have be

Re: death of the net predicted by deloitte -- film at 11

Hello; On Feb 12, 2007, at 11:15 AM, Alexander Harrowell wrote: -- Forwarded message -- From: Alexander Harrowell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Feb 12, 2007 4:13 PM Subject: Re: death of the net predicted by deloitte -- film at 11 To: Paul Vixie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Paul, that's

Re: Every incident is an opportunity (was Re: Hackers hit key Internet traffic computers)

> Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2007 11:38:10 -0500 > From: "D'Arcy J.M. Cain" > > On Mon, 12 Feb 2007 09:51:38 -0600 > Dave Pooser <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Marshall beat me to it. I have a T-shirt that says "Mac: So > > simple my parents can use it." It's funny because it's true. > > Why do I keep

Re: death of the net predicted by deloitte -- film at 11

> I never quite understood why layered multicast never took off which would > solved the problems you state above. There have been so many research > papers on the subject from the late 90s that I would have thought that by > now IPmc would be the silver bullet for video distribution. as i said

Re: Every incident is an opportunity (was Re: Hackers hit key Internet traffic computers)

On Mon, 12 Feb 2007 09:51:38 -0600 Dave Pooser <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Marshall beat me to it. I have a T-shirt that says "Mac: So simple my > parents can use it." It's funny because it's true. Why do I keep hearing "My parents are stupid" in these sorts of comments? Just wait. They get sm

Re: Every incident is an opportunity (was Re: Hackers hit key Internet traffic computers)

On Mon, 12 Feb 2007 03:23:26 -0600 (CST) Gadi Evron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > As a very smart person said a couple of weeks ago when this same argument > was made: are you willing to do tech-support for my mother is she uses > linux? Yes. Well, not your mother (unless she paid me) but I used

Fwd: death of the net predicted by deloitte -- film at 11

-- Forwarded message -- From: Alexander Harrowell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Feb 12, 2007 4:13 PM Subject: Re: death of the net predicted by deloitte -- film at 11 To: Paul Vixie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Paul, that's very interesting. A query: "AMT Site: A multicast-enabled network not

RE: Do routers prioritize control traffic?

> I know routers today have the ability to prioritize > traffic, but last I heard, these controls are not > often used for user traffic (let's not discuss > net neutrality here). > > Are they used for control (e.g., routing) traffic? They are used for BUSINESS traffic. Also, since these controls

Re: death of the net predicted by deloitte -- film at 11

On Sun, 11 Feb 2007, Frank Coluccio wrote: do what google is presumably doing (lots of fiber), or would they put some capital and preorder into IDMR? IDMR is great if you're a broadcaster or a backbone, but how does it help the last 2 miles, the phoneco ATM network or the ISP network where yo

RE: death of the net predicted by deloitte -- film at 11

> [Perhaps my viewpoint is skewed because channel-delivered TV content > in Canada is horrible; it's almost as bad as American TV. I seem to > think that broadcast TV in the UK more tolerable, although I haven't > really seen it since I left the UK in the mid 90s so perhaps > I'm just > d

Re: death of the net predicted by deloitte -- film at 11

Paul Vixie wrote: > (i'm guessing kc will be on the phone soon, to get from them their data?) While I'm sure people were looking for headlines, I think the broader implication in the report was current pricing power not supporting new investment. > ... > > A recent report from Deloitte said 200

Re: Every incident is an opportunity (was Re: Hackers hit key Internet traffic computers)

>> Name anyone techie who doesn't have to do tech support for their >> mother on MS Windows.. > The ones whose Mom's got Macs, of course. (Well, in my case it's my > Mother-in-Law, but the > tech support required has dramatically reduced.) Marshall beat me to it. I have a T-shirt that says "Mac:

Re: motivating security, was Re: Every incident...

On Mon, 2007-02-12 at 09:06 -0500, Edward Lewis wrote: > I've worked in security for some time, not that it makes me an expert > but I have seen how it is promoted/advertised. > > On Feb/12/07, someone wrote: > > >Consumers are cheap and lazy. > > I think that is the wrong place to start. It

Re: motivating security, was Re: Every incident...

d Lewis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I don't mean to say that the car owners or computer users are free from blame. But holding a sentiment of just blaming users is not helpful. OTOH, if there was something the operators could clearly do to stop this, someone would have suggested it by now. (T

Re: motivating security, was Re: Every incident...

At 14:59 + 2/12/07, Alexander Harrowell wrote: The whole logic of modern computing is that everything migrates towards users. Why shouldn't security? After all, if people didn't let the nasties in, 'twould be very hard to start a botnet.. Regarding "letting the users in" there was a story

Re: motivating security, was Re: Every incident...

On 2/12/07, Edward Lewis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Security is never something I should want, it is always something I have to have. No-one wants "security", they want not-trouble. Similar to the point that no-one wants energy, they want warm rooms and cold beers. Perhaps we need a concept o

Re: Do routers prioritize control traffic?

On Feb 12, 2007, at 8:55 AM, Christos Papadopoulos wrote: I know routers today have the ability to prioritize traffic, but last I heard, these controls are not often used for user traffic (let's not discuss net neutrality here). Are they used for control (e.g., routing) traffic? Please say a

Re: death of the net predicted by deloitte -- film at 11

On Mon, Feb 12, 2007 at 06:42:06AM -0500, Joe Abley wrote: > > > On 12-Feb-2007, at 09:23, Brandon Butterworth wrote: > > >Sure it degrades to effective unicast if too few people watch the same > >channel in the same area (so just use unicast for those channels), > >that > >doesn't mean it's

motivating security, was Re: Every incident...

I've worked in security for some time, not that it makes me an expert but I have seen how it is promoted/advertised. On Feb/12/07, someone wrote: Consumers are cheap and lazy. I think that is the wrong place to start. It isn't the consumer's fault that they have a device more dangerous t

Do routers prioritize control traffic?

I know routers today have the ability to prioritize traffic, but last I heard, these controls are not often used for user traffic (let's not discuss net neutrality here). Are they used for control (e.g., routing) traffic? Please say a bit more than "It depends!" :-) Our students are interested

Re: death of the net predicted by deloitte -- film at 11

On 12-Feb-2007, at 12:03, Brandon Butterworth wrote: I think you're presupposing that the concept of "channels" is something that will persist. For some time. There's quite an industry with an interest in maintaining that. It probably won't vanish until the current generations die. It cou

Re: Every incident is an opportunity (was Re: Hackers hit key Internet traffic computers)

My two (and a half) cents. 1. Systems that need a firewall, antivirus and antispyware software added on to survive for more than a few minutes SHOULD NOT BE CONNECTED TO THE INTERNET IN THE FIRST PLACE. They're simply not good enough. It's like bringing a knife to a gunfight. (nod to Mr. Conn

Re: Every incident is an opportunity (was Re: Hackers hit key Internet traffic computers)

On Feb 12, 2007, at 4:31 AM, Alexander Harrowell wrote: On 2/12/07, Gadi Evron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: As a very smart person said a couple of weeks ago when this same argument was made: are you willing to do tech-support for my mother is she uses linux? Gadi. Name anyone tech

Web Server Botnets and Server Farms as Attack Platforms

Are file inclusion vulnerabilitiess equivalent to remote code execution? Are servers (both Linux and Windows) now the lower hanging fruit rather than desktop systems? In the February edition of the Virus Bulletin magazine, we (Kfir Damari, Noam Rathaus and Gadi Evron (me) of Beyond Security) wrot

Re: death of the net predicted by deloitte -- film at 11

> I think you're presupposing that the concept of "channels" is > something that will persist. For some time. There's quite an industry with an interest in maintaining that. It probably won't vanish until the current generations die. Channel based and discrete delivery of content (radio vs re

Re: Every incident is an opportunity (was Re: Hackers hit key Internet traffic computers)

On Mon, 2007-02-12 at 10:13 +0100, Stephane Bortzmeyer wrote: > Sure, just find these few simple things that will actually improve > security. (My personal one would be "Erase MS-Windows and install > Ubuntu". If we are ready to inconvenience ordinary workers with > computer security, this one wou

Re: death of the net predicted by deloitte -- film at 11

On 12-Feb-2007, at 09:23, Brandon Butterworth wrote: Sure it degrades to effective unicast if too few people watch the same channel in the same area (so just use unicast for those channels), that doesn't mean it's no use for the popular channels that have millions of viewers. I think yo

Re: death of the net predicted by deloitte -- film at 11

> Multicast isn't going to help the phoneco atm network. Indeed, people keep quoting that but it's a bogus argument as nothing will help the phoneco atm network running out of bandwidth other than upgrading it That is happening, unicast/p2p/multicast/whatever, as all this content is raising aver

Re: death of the net predicted by deloitte -- film at 11

10 or 1000 channels it's going to be better than not using it. I don't see the logic in using it for nothing because it's not good for some things. Multicast isn't going to help the phoneco atm network. Whatever model emerges will only work if it works all the way to the end user. If you hav

Re: death of the net predicted by deloitte -- film at 11

a point in the technology relatively soon where a movie can be shipped across the net for about the same cost as postage today. You mean like fileshare networks have been doing for years now? The delivery model is already functional. Geo.

Re: Every incident is an opportunity

> Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2007 08:05:08 GMT > From: Brandon Butterworth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: nanog@merit.edu > Subject: Re: Every incident is an opportunity > > > > During the cold war American kids > > > were trained to hide beneath their desktops in caseof a nuclear > > > attack. Much good tha

Re: Every incident is an opportunity (was Re: Hackers hit key Internet traffic computers)

On Mon, 12 Feb 2007, Alexander Harrowell wrote: > On 2/12/07, Gadi Evron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > As a very smart person said a couple of weeks ago when this same argument > > was made: are you willing to do tech-support for my mother is she uses > > linux? > > > > Gadi. > >

Re: Every incident is an opportunity (was Re: Hackers hit key Internet traffic computers)

On Mon, Feb 12, 2007 at 09:31:21AM +, Alexander Harrowell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote a message of 28 lines which said: > Name anyone techie who doesn't have to do tech support for their > mother on MS Windows.. Political fix: and their father, too :-)

Re: Every incident is an opportunity (was Re: Hackers hit key Internet traffic computers)

On 2/12/07, Gadi Evron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: As a very smart person said a couple of weeks ago when this same argument was made: are you willing to do tech-support for my mother is she uses linux? Gadi. Name anyone techie who doesn't have to do tech support for their mother on

Re: Every incident is an opportunity (was Re: Hackers hit key Internet traffic computers)

On Mon, Feb 12, 2007 at 03:23:26AM -0600, Gadi Evron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote a message of 25 lines which said: > As a very smart person said a couple of weeks ago when this same > argument was made: are you willing to do tech-support for my mother > is she uses linux? I already do it. With

Re: death of the net predicted by deloitte -- film at 11

> IP Multicast as a solution to video distribution is a non-starter. IP > Multicast for the wide area is a failure. It assumes large numbers of > people will watch the same content at the same time. They do. Sure it degrades to effective unicast if too few people watch the same channel in the

Re: Every incident is an opportunity (was Re: Hackers hit key Internet traffic computers)

On Mon, 12 Feb 2007, Stephane Bortzmeyer wrote: > > On Mon, Feb 12, 2007 at 01:45:41AM -0500, > Sean Donelan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote > a message of 16 lines which said: > > > The important lesson is you can educate people. The content may have > > been bogus, > > > If you can come up wi

Re: Every incident is an opportunity (was Re: Hackers hit key Internet traffic computers)

On Mon, Feb 12, 2007 at 01:45:41AM -0500, Sean Donelan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote a message of 16 lines which said: > The important lesson is you can educate people. The content may have > been bogus, Right on spot: it is easy to "educate" people with simple and meaningless advices such as "In

Re: death of the net predicted by deloitte -- film at 11

On Mon, 12 Feb 2007, Hank Nussbacher wrote: > > At 10:02 PM 11-02-07 -0500, Daniel Senie wrote: > > > > >IP Multicast as a solution to video distribution is a non-starter. IP > >Multicast for the wide area is a failure. It assumes large numbers of > >people will watch the same content at the

Re: Every incident is an opportunity (was Re: Hackers hit key Internet traffic computers)

> > During the cold war American kids > > were trained to hide beneath their desktops in caseof a nuclear > > attack. Much good that would have done. It could have kept them from running around the streets screaming we're all going to die. It may well save people if they are on the edge of the s

Re: death of the net predicted by deloitte -- film at 11

At 10:02 PM 11-02-07 -0500, Daniel Senie wrote: IP Multicast as a solution to video distribution is a non-starter. IP Multicast for the wide area is a failure. It assumes large numbers of people will watch the same content at the same time. The usage model that could work for it most mimics

Re: Every incident is an opportunity (was Re: Hackers hit key Internet traffic computers)

On Mon, 12 Feb 2007, Sean Donelan wrote: > > On Sun, 11 Feb 2007, Gadi Evron wrote: > > Colin Powell mentioned at RSA in his extremely good, entertaining and > > pointless talk something of relevance. During the cold war American kids > > were trained to hide beneath their desktops in caseof a nu