On Jan 22, 2008 1:58 PM, Jon Lewis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Giving absolutely anyone who wants it PI space would make things much
> worse...so I wouldn't call that artificial supression. It's more like
> keeping the model sustainable.
Jon,
Its kinda like gas in the 70's. There wasn't enough
$quoted_author = "Tom Vest" ;
>
> Occasional rhetorical indulgences notwithstanding, I'm a pragmatist; an
> ever-rising upper limit that 99% of the population never ever notices is
> not much of a limit.
Sure it is. By knowing that no-one sharing the backhaul to the DSLAM at my
CO can afford t
On Tue, 22 Jan 2008, William Herrin wrote:
Right now we rely on ARIN and the RIRs to artificially suppress the
growth of the prefix count and with it the availability of PI space.
If by artificially suppress, you mean anyone who wants it can't just fill
out a form and be handed a portable /2
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Geoff Huston) writes:
> Which is a roundabout way of saying that I'm very sceptical of Tom's
> exponential optimism in this particular area of infrastructure investment
> :-)
the internet often hasn't made good economic sense. consider the chewage
and swallowage of resources
On Tue, 22 Jan 2008, Tom Vest wrote:
Okay I concede that point; competition within markets with only metered
service options can be just as or even more vigorous then competition within
unmetered markets. But competition between metered and unmetered markets
tends to reward the latter, and com
On Jan 22, 2008, at 3:01 AM, Mark Newton wrote:
On 22/01/2008, at 3:59 PM, Tom Vest wrote:
When the cable is full or EOL'ed its owner should have earned
enough to build a new one at current market rates.
I believe that someone will be able to "build" (i.e., finance)
more, when/where mor
Hello Bill:
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
> William Herrin
> Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2008 7:55 AM
> To: nanog@merit.edu
> Subject: Re: Cost per prefix [was: request for help w/ ATT and
> terminology]
>
>
> On Jan 21, 2008 10:28 P
William Herrin wrote:
> Right now we rely on ARIN and the RIRs to artificially suppress the
> growth of the prefix count and with it the availability of PI space.
> This is a Really Bad Thing on so many levels, but absent a viable
> market-based solution to the problem, authority-based rationing i
> The problem with William's calculation is that he is claiming the
> _only_ difference between X & Y is "prefix count". (He said this,
> more than once.)
The only meaningful difference between X & Y for the purposes of this
discussion _is_ prefix count.
> He is dead wrong.
No, he's quite
Right now we rely on ARIN and the RIRs to artificially suppress the
growth of the prefix count and with it the availability of PI space.
If we can determine the cost to announce a prefix then we could
develop a market-based solution to the problem... instead of
suppressing the prefix count, we GET
On Jan 21, 2008 10:28 PM, Jon Lewis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Is there really any point in trying to put a $ figure on each route?
Jon,
Emphatically Yes!
Right now we rely on ARIN and the RIRs to artificially suppress the
growth of the prefix count and with it the availability of PI space.
T
We've figured our customer base ranges between 8 to 12 kbps/customer.
Frank
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
Alastair Johnson
Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2008 4:09 AM
To: nanog@merit.edu
Subject: Re: Lessons from the AU model
Mark Newton
I'm not struggling -- anyone else volunteer that they are? It costs to
upgrade plant/equipment to meet traffic growth, but it's being done and no
one is saying that their prices are going up. Even from the customer
perspective, the bang for their buck has continued to rise.
Frank
-Original
On Tue, 22 Jan 2008, Mikael Abrahamsson wrote:
Your analogy is halting, but that's to be expected. I certainly wouldn't want
to pay more for the landlord to install metering everywhere. There is much
overhead in metering and billing on that.
I suspect you have never been a landlord or needed
Consumers have been conditioned through advertising that 'bigger is
better' so bigger numbers imply a better service in their minds. Look
at the current flat panel TV size madness
there is a formula for calculating the size of a display based on
distance to the viewer I live in a older house
On Tue, 22 Jan 2008, Sean Donelan wrote:
If there was one tenant that left the hot water running 24 hours, 7 days a
week; so other tenants complained they didn't get enough hot water. One
That has never happened to me. We have good enough infrastructure that one
tenant filling up their hot w
On Jan 21, 2008, at 6:14 PM, David Barak wrote:
Wouldn't a reasonable approach be to take the sum of a 6500/
msfc2 and a 2851, and assume that the routing computation could be
offloaded?
The difficulty I have with this discussion is that the cost per
prefix is zero until you need to chang
On 22/01/2008, at 7:30 PM, Mikael Abrahamsson wrote:
I am also hesitant regarding billing when a person is being DDOS:ed.
How is that handled in .AU? I can see billing being done on outgoing
traffic from the customer because they can control that, but what
about incoming, the customer has
On Tue, 22 Jan 2008, Mikael Abrahamsson wrote:
I know of places in my nick of the world where all those are flat-rate. When
the usage difference is small enough, metering is not effective.
Ahh, the key phrase is "usage difference is small enough."
Typical dorm here includes power, water, (gas
Or even Blue Security.
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
Ben Butler
Sent: 22 January 2008 10:26
To: nanog@merit.edu
Subject: RE: Lessons from the AU model
Hi,
Regarding Dos filtering, I guess that really depends on whether we are
talking
Hi,
Regarding Dos filtering, I guess that really depends on whether we are
talking about completing the attack and filtering in upstream transits,
or, filtering source / traffic classification within the AS keeping the
destination alive throughout the attack and utilising WAN/Transit
bandwidth in
Mark Newton wrote:
Despite the best efforts of some people to run their broadband
access at line rate, residential broadband is very much a
"CIR + burst" kind of service. All of our customers can burst
to line rate (they're paying for it, so they should be able to
get it). None of our custome
Mikael Abrahamsson wrote:
Some claim that metering is 50% of cost in the telco industry, and I
have no reason to doubt that. Staying out of metering saves money on all
levels, less complex equipment, less supportcalls, less hassle with
billing.
I have to agree with this, although the figure
On Tue, 22 Jan 2008, Mikael Abrahamsson wrote:
> I am also hesitant regarding billing when a person is being DDOS:ed. How
> is that handled in .AU? I can see billing being done on outgoing traffic
> from the customer because they can control that, but what about incoming,
> the customer has only p
On Tue, 22 Jan 2008, Tom Vest wrote:
> But even assuming you manage to define a "reasonable" cap, how will
> you defend it against competitors, and how will you determine when &
> how to adjust it (presumably upwards) as the basket of "typical" user
> content and services gets beefier -- or will t
On Tue, 22 Jan 2008, Mark Newton wrote:
Power is metered. Water is metered. Gas is metered. Heating
oil is metered. Even cable-TV is packaged so that you pay more
if you want to use more channels...
I know of places in my nick of the world where all those are flat-rate.
When the usage di
On 22/01/2008, at 3:59 PM, Tom Vest wrote:
When the cable is full or EOL'ed its owner should have earned
enough to build a new one at current market rates.
I believe that someone will be able to "build" (i.e., finance) more,
when/where more is required.
Faith-based network rollouts. Nea
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