Re: FW: Re: Is there a line of defense against Distributed Reflectiveattacks?

2003-01-22 Thread Petri Helenius
Al Rowland wrote: Not to mention that fact that 99.99% of current consumer connections are not up to the task. Standard full-screen video digital stream is ~6Mbps, HDTV requires 19.4Mbps. Don't know many consumers with T3s. ;) VDSL or ADSL2+ would cut it, until fiber to the curb gets the nor

Re: FW: Re: Is there a line of defense against Distributed Reflectiveattacks?

2003-01-22 Thread Andy Dills
On Tue, 21 Jan 2003, todd glassey wrote: > > Vadim - the newest form of SPAM uses the Messenger facility to place a > pop-up in the middle of your screen without any email, pop, smtp or other > service being involved. I apologize for the tone of the first posting, but I > still stand by it. When

Re: FW: Re: Is there a line of defense against Distributed Reflectiveattacks?

2003-01-21 Thread Vadim Antonov
On Tue, 21 Jan 2003, todd glassey wrote: > Vadim - the instant someone sues a Provider for sexual harassment from their > spam epidemic you will start to see things change. The reason that No-Sane > provider will block these ports or services is because they have been > listening to their Networ

Re: FW: Re: Is there a line of defense against Distributed Reflectiveattacks?

2003-01-20 Thread E.B. Dreger
VA> Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 19:59:08 -0800 (PST) VA> From: Vadim Antonov VA> Well, blocking TCP SYNs is not a way to block establishment VA> of sessions between _cooperating_ hosts. With cooperating hosts, anything goes. Hack up the IP stack, and have specially-crafted DNS queries carry the ISN

Re: FW: Re: Is there a line of defense against Distributed Reflectiveattacks?

2003-01-20 Thread Vadim Antonov
On Mon, 20 Jan 2003, Avleen Vig wrote: > > On Mon, 20 Jan 2003, Christopher L. Morrow wrote: > > > > I was refering specifically to end user workstations. For example home > > > machines on dial up or broadband connections. > > > A lot of broadband providers already prohibit running servers an

Re: FW: Re: Is there a line of defense against Distributed Reflectiveattacks?

2003-01-20 Thread Avleen Vig
On Tue, 21 Jan 2003, Christopher L. Morrow wrote: > > Indeed it does break that. P2P clients: Mostly transfer illegal content. > > As much as a lot of people love using these, I'm sure most realise they're > > on borrowed time in their current state. > > And I'm sure that if they were gone tomorr

Re: FW: Re: Is there a line of defense against Distributed Reflectiveattacks?

2003-01-20 Thread Christopher L. Morrow
On Mon, 20 Jan 2003, Avleen Vig wrote: > > Doesn't this stop kazaa/morpheus/gnutella/FTP/ > chats>? This is a problematic setup, and woudl require the cable modem > > provider to maintain a quickly changing 'firewall' :( I understand the > > want to do it, but I'm not sure its practical to see it

Re: FW: Re: Is there a line of defense against Distributed Reflectiveattacks?

2003-01-20 Thread Avleen Vig
On Mon, 20 Jan 2003, Christopher L. Morrow wrote: > > I was refering specifically to end user workstations. For example home > > machines on dial up or broadband connections. > > A lot of broadband providers already prohibit running servers and block > > certain inbound ports (eg 21 and 80). > >

Re: FW: Re: Is there a line of defense against Distributed Reflectiveattacks?

2003-01-20 Thread Christopher L. Morrow
On Sun, 19 Jan 2003, Avleen Vig wrote: > On Sun, 19 Jan 2003, Christopher L. Morrow wrote: > > > > you could partly get around this by blocking all 'SYN' packets going to > > > your customers :-) > > > > and we are hoping none are hosting webservers or mail servers or > > right? Oh wait! I'

Re: FW: Re: Is there a line of defense against Distributed Reflectiveattacks?

2003-01-19 Thread Rob Thomas
Hi, NANOGers. ] The rest could be handled with a simple IDS (doesn't even need ] to match patterns... just count packets going to 27374 and the like) There is no "simple IDS" for OC48+ links. :) Counters are possible, though adding that many ACLs can be more than burdensome on certain code and

Re: FW: Re: Is there a line of defense against Distributed Reflectiveattacks?

2003-01-19 Thread Avleen Vig
On Sun, 19 Jan 2003, Christopher L. Morrow wrote: > > you could partly get around this by blocking all 'SYN' packets going to > > your customers :-) > > and we are hoping none are hosting webservers or mail servers or > right? Oh wait! I'll just make them use my datacenters, right?? or were >

Re: FW: Re: Is there a line of defense against Distributed Reflectiveattacks?

2003-01-18 Thread hc
Everyone probably knows... But if not -- just a reminder that you can also add access-list number after 'ip verify unicast reverse-path' to allow any hosts you think that should be able to get allowed through the filter :-) It's convenient when you are doing some mobileIP+vpn stuff in which som

Re: FW: Re: Is there a line of defense against Distributed Reflectiveattacks?

2003-01-18 Thread Christopher L. Morrow
On Sat, 18 Jan 2003, Avleen Vig wrote: > On Sat, 18 Jan 2003, Christopher L. Morrow wrote: > > > > Eliminating spoofed addresses from the backbone, even if it were possible > > > to do 100%, would not eliminate denial of service attacks. The DDoS attacks > > > > This was precisely the point of M

Re: FW: Re: Is there a line of defense against Distributed Reflectiveattacks?

2003-01-18 Thread Avleen Vig
On Sat, 18 Jan 2003, Christopher L. Morrow wrote: > > Eliminating spoofed addresses from the backbone, even if it were possible > > to do 100%, would not eliminate denial of service attacks. The DDoS attacks > > This was precisely the point of Mr. Gill from AOL at the aforementioned > NANOG meeti

Re: FW: Re: Is there a line of defense against Distributed Reflectiveattacks?

2003-01-18 Thread Rob Thomas
Hi, NANOGers. You just knew I couldn't stay out of this thread for long. ;) ] I'd note that UUNET also went through some pain to push CPE configs with ] 'good' passwds for telnet and enable, now there are tens (perhaps ] hundreds) of CPE routers with 'cisco' as the vty passwd... Don't During

Re: FW: Re: Is there a line of defense against Distributed Reflectiveattacks?

2003-01-18 Thread Christopher L. Morrow
On Sat, 18 Jan 2003, Daniel Senie wrote: > At 09:29 PM 1/17/2003, Christopher L. Morrow wrote: > >On Fri, 17 Jan 2003, Stewart, William C (Bill), RTLSL wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -Original Message- > > > From: Stewart, William C (Bill), RTLSL > > > Sent: Friday, January 17, 2003 5

Re: FW: Re: Is there a line of defense against Distributed Reflectiveattacks?

2003-01-17 Thread Christopher L. Morrow
On Fri, 17 Jan 2003, Stewart, William C (Bill), RTLSL wrote: > > > > -Original Message- > From: Stewart, William C (Bill), RTLSL > Sent: Friday, January 17, 2003 5:35 PM > To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' > Subject: Re: Is there a line of defense against Distributed Reflective > attacks? > > > Ma