(hoping this is still somewhat ontopic, should be much more ontopic than my
last reply was)
Robert Bonomi wrote:
Authoritative answer: "Maybe."
Usually.
Depends on the locale, the state regulators, and the phone company.
Frequently called "Lifeline" service, when marketed for the elderl
> As I remember Tennessee's rules, the PSC requirement was that every
> adjacent county was to be considered local.
>
> Area codes could usually cover multiple counties, but you usually know
> what city your calling destination is in. With ISP dial-in numbers, you
> might not, but that's pretty mu
> > To use 1+ for "toll alerting", in locales where intra-NPA can be toll, and
> > inter-NPA can be local, you have to incur one of those sets of increased
> > expenses. And the 'inconveniences' to the customer.
>
> Not really. Billable status of a call is known up front in today's
> all-digital
On Sat, 20 Aug 2005, Robert Bonomi wrote:
> To use 1+ for "toll alerting", in locales where intra-NPA can be toll, and
> inter-NPA can be local, you have to incur one of those sets of increased
> expenses. And the 'inconveniences' to the customer.
Not really. Billable status of a call is known
On Sat, Aug 20, 2005 at 09:25:27AM -0500, Robert Bonomi wrote:
> 1-800-800, at least, has been in use for a number of years.
> and I'm pretty sure I've seen 1-800-900 numbers.
here's a fairly big one: uunet public tech support 1-800-900-0241.
--
Henry Yen
> From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fri Aug 19 14:37:28 2005
> From: Barry Shein <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2005 15:31:42 -0400
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: New N.Y. Law Targets Hidden Net LD Tolls
>
>
>
> Can't one still get minimal phone s
> From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fri Aug 19 14:26:54 2005
> From: "Stephen Sprunk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Robert Bonomi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Cc: "North American Noise and Off-topic Gripes"
> Subject: Re: New N.Y. Law Targets Hidden Net LD
On 8/19/2005 12:41 PM, John Levine wrote:
> I agree that life would be simpler if there were some straightforward
> way to ask telcos whether a call from a->b was local or toll.
As I remember Tennessee's rules, the PSC requirement was that every
adjacent county was to be considered local.
Area
On Fri, Aug 19, 2005 at 02:20:59PM -0500, Stephen Sprunk wrote:
>
> Thus spake "Robert Bonomi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> [ attribution to me missing ]
> >>That's why some states (e.g. Texas) require that all toll calls be
> >>dialed as 1+ _regardless of area code_, and local calls cannot be
> >>diale
On Fri, 19 Aug 2005, Stephen Sprunk wrote:
> When you have seven nearby area codes (like I do), and parts of each of them
> can be local or toll, there's no hope of memorizing prefixes. You guess based
> on the distance, and you either get through or a recording tells you that you
> guessed wron
On Fri, Aug 19, 2005 at 03:15:11PM -0400, Steven J. Sobol wrote:
> On Fri, 19 Aug 2005, Steven M. Bellovin wrote:
> > Mine doesn't -- AT&T Wireless and Cingular GSM phones have 10D or 11D
> > only, at least around here.
>
> Leave it up to Cingular to be stupid. :P I've been a customer of Alltel,
Can't one still get minimal phone service which charges a toll on
every phone call? I know this used to cost like $5/mo but I think they
eliminated it in MA a few years ago, or made it hardship-only.
Simple business lines here normally charge for every phone call, 1MB
as they're called, MB = Mea
Thus spake "Robert Bonomi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
[ attribution to me missing ]
That's why some states (e.g. Texas) require that all toll calls be
dialed as 1+ _regardless of area code_, and local calls cannot be
dialed as 1+. If you dial a number wrong, you get a message telling
you how to do it
Thus spake "John Levine" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Face it, 7D is dead; and even if overlays had not arrived, cell
phones would have killed it. Once you learn to think 10D, it's
trivial.
Oh, you ignorant rednecks.* Even my cell phone has 7D dialing and
it'll be a century before overlays arrive wher
On Fri, 19 Aug 2005, Steven M. Bellovin wrote:
> Mine doesn't -- AT&T Wireless and Cingular GSM phones have 10D or 11D
> only, at least around here.
Leave it up to Cingular to be stupid. :P I've been a customer of Alltel,
Northcoast PCS, Sprint PCS and now T-Mobile, and the old GTE Wireless
da
Thus spake "Steven M. Bellovin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, John Levine writes:
Oh, you ignorant rednecks.* Even my cell phone has 7D dialing
Mine doesn't -- AT&T Wireless and Cingular GSM phones have 10D
or 11D only, at least around here.
My T-Mobile GSM phone allo
John Levine wrote:
That's why some states (e.g. Texas) require that all toll calls be
dialed as 1+ _regardless of area code_, and local calls cannot be
dialed as 1+. If you dial a number wrong, you get a message
telling you how to do it properly (and why).
In some places that "solution" is
On Fri, Aug 19, 2005 at 07:29:44PM +0200, Andre Oppermann wrote:
>
> John Levine wrote:
> >>Face it, 7D is dead; and even if overlays had not arrived, cell
> >>phones would have killed it. Once you learn to think 10D, it's
> >>trivial.
> >
> >Oh, you ignorant rednecks.* Even my cell phone has 7D
John Levine wrote:
Face it, 7D is dead; and even if overlays had not arrived, cell
phones would have killed it. Once you learn to think 10D, it's
trivial.
Oh, you ignorant rednecks.* Even my cell phone has 7D dialing and
it'll be a century before overlays arrive where I live.
The reason that
In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, John Levine writes:
>
>> Face it, 7D is dead; and even if overlays had not arrived, cell
>> phones would have killed it. Once you learn to think 10D, it's
>> trivial.
>
>Oh, you ignorant rednecks.* Even my cell phone has 7D dialing
Mine doesn't -- AT&T Wireless an
>> That's why some states (e.g. Texas) require that all toll calls be
>> dialed as 1+ _regardless of area code_, and local calls cannot be
>> dialed as 1+. If you dial a number wrong, you get a message
>> telling you how to do it properly (and why).
>In some places that "solution" is _not_practi
> Face it, 7D is dead; and even if overlays had not arrived, cell
> phones would have killed it. Once you learn to think 10D, it's
> trivial.
Oh, you ignorant rednecks.* Even my cell phone has 7D dialing and
it'll be a century before overlays arrive where I live.
The reason that it makes sense
Speaking on Deep Background, the Press Secretary whispered:
>
>
> Not unreasonable at all (although personally, I like
> the TX-style "all your long distance are 11D, else
> 10D" approach). Simple consumer protection, similar
> to the
Ahem; MD has to me the most viable approach:
type: loc
On Thu, 18 Aug 2005 13:47:11 CDT, Robert Bonomi said:
> All true, but *WHY* is that 'accidentally dialing a non-local ISP number'
> the *ISP's* fault??
Because the ISP gave the number to the user, often accompanied by text that
implied
that the number provided was an economical way to get connect
Hi,
On Thu, Aug 18, 2005 at 03:54:38AM -0400, Richard A Steenbergen wrote:
> To quote the original pasted article:
>
> > Consumers, however, must act on the warning that Internet providers must
> > soon post by contacting their phone companies to find out whether a
> > number is truly local.
I
> Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: New N.Y. Law Targets Hidden Net LD Tolls
> Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2005 12:53:43 -0500
> Thus spake "Robert Bonomi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > *NOT* "other people's fraud". Just when you have 'intra-LATA&
--- Robert Bonomi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > A typical call to a dial-up ISP is what, a few
> hours?
> > Multiple times per month? Accidentally using a
> > non-local ISP number can result in a bill in the
> > hundreds of dollars pretty easily (also no pizza).
>
> All true, but *WHY* is th
> From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thu Aug 18 11:04:41 2005
> Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2005 07:56:10 -0700 (PDT)
> From: David Barak <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: New N.Y. Law Targets Hidden Net LD Tolls
> To: Sean Donelan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, nanog@merit.edu
>
>
>
&g
Thus spake "Robert Bonomi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
*NOT* "other people's fraud". Just when you have 'intra-LATA' toll
charges for some numbers within a single area-code. If the user is
on one side of the area-code, and the provider's POP is on the far
side of it, you can have a what appears to be
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of David Lesher
> Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2005 8:31 AM
> To: nanog list
> Subject: Re: New N.Y. Law Targets Hidden Net LD Tolls
>
>
> >
> > Pardon my ignor
On Thu, 18 Aug 2005, Brian Johnson wrote:
> Pardon my ignorance, but don't most phone companies require 10 digit dialing
> for long-distance.
So I signed up for a trial of a spiffy service from RingCentral, who
insist that they have numbers local to Victorville/Apple Valley,
California, USA.
--- Sean Donelan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I assume the NY AG will also be targeting
> enforcement of Domino's Pizza
> because they have lots of phone numbers and
> consumers may unknowingly dial
> a phone number to order a pizza which may be a toll
> call in their area.
A typical call to Do
On Thu, Aug 18, 2005 at 07:42:53AM -0500, Robert Bonomi wrote:
> The CLEC can't tell you (and thus, neither can the ISP) which prefixes are a
> 'non-toll' call to their numbeers. And trying to get an authoritative answer
> from the ILEC about what charges are to the CLEC's prefix can be _very_
> *NOT* "other people's fraud". Just when you have
> 'intra-LATA' toll charges
> for some numbers within a single area-code. If the user is
> on one side of
> the area-code, and the provider's POP is on the far side of
> it, you can have
> a what appears to be a 'local' number, that does inc
>
> Pardon my ignorance, but don't most phone companies require 10 digit dialing
> for long-distance. We have similar situations in the rural area I live in,
> but the customers know if they dial more than 7 digits, it WILL be long
> distance.
No.
If you are in an overlay area, such as MD, part
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Robert Bonomi
> Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2005 7:43 AM
> To: nanog@merit.edu
> Subject: Re: New N.Y. Law Targets Hidden Net LD Tolls
>
>
> > From [EMAIL PROTEC
> From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thu Aug 18 01:47:56 2005
> Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2005 02:44:59 -0400
> From: "Eric A. Hall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Cc: nanog@merit.edu
> Subject: Re: New N.Y. Law Targets Hidden Net LD Tolls
>
>
>
> On 8/17/2005 10:04 PM, Fergie (P
On Thu, 18 Aug 2005, Sean Donelan wrote:
> On Thu, 18 Aug 2005, Richard A Steenbergen wrote:
> > Sounds like the standard notice that all reputable ISPs are probably
> > already giving. Given the very real potential for grandma and grandpa to
> > pick a number off a list which looks like it is i
On Thu, 18 Aug 2005, Richard A Steenbergen wrote:
> On Thu, Aug 18, 2005 at 02:44:59AM -0400, Eric A. Hall wrote:
> >
> >
> > On 8/17/2005 10:04 PM, Fergie (Paul Ferguson) wrote:
> >
> > > A new law that's apparently the first in the nation threatens to
> > > penalize Internet service provider
> Those pennies can add up. And if you have ever called a government
> office, you can sometimes spend a long time listening to music on
> hold. Does the NY State Goverment warning citizens they may be charged
> for phone calls to government offices?
I'm not sure if that's the same thing - sinc
On Thu, 18 Aug 2005, Jonathan M. Slivko wrote:
> > I assume the NY AG will also be targeting enforcement of Domino's Pizza
> > because they have lots of phone numbers and consumers may unknowingly dial
> > a phone number to order a pizza which may be a toll call in their area.
>
> Somehow I don't
"Sean Donelan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>;
Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2005 4:27 AM
Subject: Re: New N.Y. Law Targets Hidden Net LD Tolls
>
> Sean,
>
> > I assume the NY AG will also be targeting enforcement of Domino's Pizza
> > because they have lots of phone
On Thu, Aug 18, 2005 at 04:19:25AM -0400, Eric A. Hall wrote:
>
> On 8/18/2005 3:54 AM, Richard A Steenbergen wrote:
>
> > I'm not sure which part of "this seems to have nothing to do with toll
> > scams" wasn't clear the first time around, but this response still seems
> > to have no basis gi
Sean,
> I assume the NY AG will also be targeting enforcement of Domino's Pizza
> because they have lots of phone numbers and consumers may unknowingly dial
> a phone number to order a pizza which may be a toll call in their area.
Somehow I don't think so. It takes maybe 5 minutes to order a piz
Sean,
> I assume the NY AG will also be targeting enforcement of Domino's Pizza
> because they have lots of phone numbers and consumers may unknowingly dial
> a phone number to order a pizza which may be a toll call in their area.
Somehow I don't think so. It takes maybe 5 minutes to order a piz
Sean,
> I assume the NY AG will also be targeting enforcement of Domino's Pizza
> because they have lots of phone numbers and consumers may unknowingly dial
> a phone number to order a pizza which may be a toll call in their area.
Somehow I don't think so. It takes maybe 5 minutes to order a piz
On 8/18/2005 3:54 AM, Richard A Steenbergen wrote:
> I'm not sure which part of "this seems to have nothing to do with toll
> scams" wasn't clear the first time around, but this response still seems
> to have no basis given the facts...
Is the NY AG authorized to regulate other-than "illegal"
On Thu, Aug 18, 2005 at 04:05:30AM -0400, Sean Donelan wrote:
>
> On Thu, 18 Aug 2005, Richard A Steenbergen wrote:
> > Sounds like the standard notice that all reputable ISPs are probably
> > already giving. Given the very real potential for grandma and grandpa to
> > pick a number off a list wh
On Thu, 18 Aug 2005, Richard A Steenbergen wrote:
> Sounds like the standard notice that all reputable ISPs are probably
> already giving. Given the very real potential for grandma and grandpa to
> pick a number off a list which looks like it is in their area code and end
> up with a multi-thousan
On Thu, Aug 18, 2005 at 12:19:25AM -0700, William C. Devine II wrote:
> Just about all of the ISP's in my area, even those I've worked for, had
> a 'disclaimer' on their user agreement that said that some of the local
> phone numbers might be long distance and that the user should call the
> opera
On 8/18/2005 2:59 AM, Richard A Steenbergen wrote:
> On Thu, Aug 18, 2005 at 02:44:59AM -0400, Eric A. Hall wrote:
>
>>On 8/17/2005 10:04 PM, Fergie (Paul Ferguson) wrote:
>>
>>>A new law that's apparently the first in the nation threatens to
>>>penalize Internet service providers that fail to w
On Thu, Aug 18, 2005 at 02:44:59AM -0400, Eric A. Hall wrote:
>
>
> On 8/17/2005 10:04 PM, Fergie (Paul Ferguson) wrote:
>
> > A new law that's apparently the first in the nation threatens to
> > penalize Internet service providers that fail to warn users that some
> > dial-up numbers can ring
On 8/17/2005 10:04 PM, Fergie (Paul Ferguson) wrote:
> A new law that's apparently the first in the nation threatens to
> penalize Internet service providers that fail to warn users that some
> dial-up numbers can ring up enormous long-distance phone bills even
> though they appear local.
aka,
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