On Mon, 28 Mar 2005, Jay R. Ashworth wrote:
> On Sun, Mar 27, 2005 at 05:57:13PM -0500, Dean Anderson wrote:
> > There are consequences, of course, to doing irresponsible things, and to
> > misleading your subscribers, and to blocking email that your subscribers
> > didn't authorize you to block.
On Sun, Mar 27, 2005 at 05:57:13PM -0500, Dean Anderson wrote:
> >Look, if I want to publish a blocklist of all domains with the
> >string "er" in them and all IP addresses ending in .7, that would be
> >a silly thing to do: but after all, it's just a list.
>
> There are consequences, of course
> o could this be used as a dos and then become extortion?
>has this actually happened, or is it just black heli?
It has happened, in a legal sense anyway. See Exactis V. MAPS. One of
Exactis' claims was civil extortion. (Claim 4 on complaint). Exactis
also claimed that MAPS could block
Hi folks. A few points about Sorbs (I've also started a web site
www.iadl.org to track abuse of the internet for defamation purposes. The
web site isn't finished, yet.)
1) Someone said Sorbs is just Matthew Sullivan.
Well, _Sullivan_ said it isn't just him. Yeah, sure, that has
credibilty...
Ho
On Tue, Mar 22, 2005 at 04:38:27PM +, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
[ Me: ]
> > If there were a centralized site to which to contribute such things, a
> > site based on MediaWiki, for example (the engine which drives
> > Wikipedia), would the members of this list contribute to it?
>
> For those wh
> On Tue, Mar 22, 2005 at 09:47:00AM +, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
> > There are a lot of people in this industry who claim to
> > be engineers but they're not. In fact, I am of the opinion
> > that there is no such thing as an Internet network engineer
> > because there are no published best
On Tue, Mar 22, 2005 at 09:47:00AM +, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> There are a lot of people in this industry who claim to
> be engineers but they're not. In fact, I am of the opinion
> that there is no such thing as an Internet network engineer
> because there are no published best practices f
On Tue, 22 Mar 2005 07:27:21 -0800, Wes Hardaker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I wish it were always so easy. I've been talking to an administrator
> lately who's policy is that "loosing occasional email is ok if it
> means we keep out a whole bunch of spam". If they're that far over
That is a f
On Tue, 22 Mar 2005 07:27:21 PST, Wes Hardaker said:
> I wish it were always so easy. I've been talking to an administrator
> lately who's policy is that "loosing occasional email is ok if it
> means we keep out a whole bunch of spam". If they're that far over
> the fence I'd need a strong bull
> On Tue, 22 Mar 2005 09:35:02 +0530, Suresh Ramasubramanian <[EMAIL
> PROTECTED]> said:
Suresh> Luckily, quite a few people who turn on dumb spam filters do
Suresh> turn them off when contacted and told about their bad
Suresh> filtering. Some make the mistake of not doing so - and
Sure
> .. it means that the guy should know when to do it -
> and when not to. And he should be reachable, and should know enough
> to realize he's screwed up, and to fix it. Sadly, this is rather less
> common than simply knowing how to throw filters in - that's the easy
> part. Kind of like the di
On Mon, 21 Mar 2005 10:58:00 -0500, Jay R. Ashworth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> This sounds like an excellent sales point for value added mail
> processing...
>
It is not just clueless end user exchange admins who deploy dumb filter rules.
If I had a nickel for every time I've run into st
On Mon, 21 Mar 2005, Jason Slagle wrote:
>
> Lady was running exchange. She had the Symantec virus/spam/crap filter
> for it installed.. All email to her was bouncing with a 550 spam site
> deny.
>
> We jerked around with it for quite some time before we realized that one
> of the dnsbl's that
On Mon, Mar 21, 2005 at 10:55:13AM -0500, Jason Slagle wrote:
> This is the risk you run - this product either had it on by default, or it
> was in a list of options to turn on. End users don't know what it is, and
> only know it'll help eliminate spam, and they turn it on. Then they
> genera
On Tue, 15 Mar 2005, Paul G wrote:
unfortunately, that *still* didn't stop people from using it, which
translated into an unresolvable headache for me as a sp. if you don't
consider a blacklist to be usable by the public, don't publish it. however,
publishing a draconian blacklist seems to get you
On Wed, 16 Mar 2005 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > > What if the USPS decided any magazine you subscribed to was
> > > suddenly unfit for delivery and decided it should blocked (thrown
> away)?
> >
> > They don't decide. I do.
>
> This is not factually true. The USPS has a Postal Inspection Service
"Hannigan, Martin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> "Third and finally, if you are really not a spammer, or you are truly
reformed,
> de-listing is relatively easy. You donate US$50 to a charity or trust
approved
> by, and not connected with, SORBS for each spam received relating to the
> listing (T
> > What if the USPS decided any magazine you subscribed to was
> > suddenly unfit for delivery and decided it should blocked (thrown
away)?
>
> They don't decide. I do.
This is not factually true. The USPS has a Postal Inspection Service
that can intercept your mail for various reasons. Detai
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of
> Edward B. Dreger
> Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2005 9:04 PM
> To: Niels Bakker
> Cc: nanog@merit.edu
> Subject: Re: sorbs.net
>
>
>
[ SNIP ]
>
> I don't f
NB> Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 02:33:49 +0100
NB> From: Niels Bakker
NB> * [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Edward B. Dreger) [Wed 16 Mar 2005, 02:04 CET]:
NB> > It could be an interesting way to make a few bucks. ;-)
NB>
NB> Try it and report back? Until then I think this thread is welcomed
NB> more on spam-l &
>> From: Martin Hannigan
>> Blocking by SP ip addr + asking for user cash = operational problem
>> for SP
* [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Edward B. Dreger) [Wed 16 Mar 2005, 02:04 CET]:
> It could be an interesting way to make a few bucks. ;-)
Try it and report back? Until then I think this thread is wel
On Tue, Mar 15, 2005 at 05:44:41PM -0500, Paul G wrote:
> unfortunately, that *still* didn't stop people from using it, which
> translated into an unresolvable headache for me as a sp.
Then gripe at the people who chose to use it: it was *their*
decision, and if it was a poor one, then they are
MH> Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 14:17:01 -0500
MH> From: Martin Hannigan
MH> Blocking by SP ip addr + asking for user cash = operational problem
MH> for SP
It could be an interesting way to make a few bucks. ;-)
Eddy
--
Everquick Internet - http://www.everquick.net/
A division of Brotsman & Dreger,
On Tue, 15 Mar 2005, Paul Vixie wrote:
If it *actually* worked right, why do I *ever* encounter people that
don't even know what block lists they're using?
As MAPS found out during some early legal imbroglios, it is very easy to
convince a judge that at least one ISP has subscribed to a blackhole
- Original Message -
From: "Matthew Sullivan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Robert Bonomi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc:
Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2005 6:07 PM
Subject: Re: sorbs.net
> The original poster has already noted a contact has been made, and I
>
Robert Bonomi wrote:
Anyone on the list involved with this project? I need to speak to
someone ASAP. No, I am not going to pay your ridiculous fine.
SORBS is a one-man operation out of Australia.
Not quite, though it is owned by me.
I really doubt that he participates in the NORTH AMERI
- Original Message -
From: "Rich Kulawiec" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To:
Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2005 5:43 PM
Subject: Re: sorbs.net
>
> On Tue, Mar 15, 2005 at 11:21:35AM -0800, Randy Bush wrote:
> > o could this be used as a dos and then become extortion?
&
On Tue, Mar 15, 2005 at 11:21:35AM -0800, Randy Bush wrote:
> o could this be used as a dos and then become extortion?
Unlikely. Blocklists are used by choice, and blocklists which
either aren't effective or don't have sane policies don't get
chosen often. (See "BLARS", which even blars was r
> > If it *actually* worked right, why do I *ever* encounter people that
> > don't even know what block lists they're using?
As MAPS found out during some early legal imbroglios, it is very easy to
convince a judge that at least one ISP has subscribed to a blackhole list
without understanding the
If it *actually* worked right, why do I *ever* encounter people that
don't even
know what block lists they're using?
Because enough people running networks are idiots. Why do these
network even stay
in business?
Because their competitors are often equally mercifully free of the ravages
of int
On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 14:56:15 CST, Robert Bonomi said:
> If they aren't competent to do the job, they shouldn't *have* the job.
> If management doesn't know what all the job requirements are, that is
> managements failing, and they _deserve_ the consequences thereof.
To misquote Randy: "I encourag
- Original Message -
From: "Gadi Evron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Hannigan, Martin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: "Micah McNelly" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>;
Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2005 1:15 PM
Subject: Re: sorbs.net
>
> >>From http://
> From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tue Mar 15 14:28:29 2005
> To: Robert Bonomi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Cc: nanog@merit.edu
> Subject: Re: sorbs.net
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 15:28:17 -0500
>
>
> On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 13:42:24 CST, Robert Bon
On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 13:42:24 CST, Robert Bonomi said:
> As with any other 'voluntary use' blocklist, it's "clout" is only as good
> as the number of people using it. If serious questions arose as to the
> 'integrity' of the list, or the list operator, the vast majority of the
> mail-server operat
> From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tue Mar 15 13:21:45 2005
> From: Randy Bush <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 11:21:35 -0800
> To: nanog@merit.edu
> Subject: Re: sorbs.net
>
>
> a few questions
>
> o could this be used as a dos and then become extorti
On Tue, 15 Mar 2005, Micah McNelly wrote:
> Do you really think opinion has a place in mail delivery?
Yes. For instance, you might be lucky enough to live somewhere where the
the local default postal service actually obeys the 'No junk mail' sticker
on your letterbox and only delivers cards and
On Tue, 15 Mar 2005, Micah McNelly wrote:
> Do you really think opinion has a place in mail delivery?
Yes. My mailbox. My computer. My private property. My rules.
> What if the USPS decided any magazine you subscribed to was
> suddenly unfit for delivery and decided it should blocked (thrown aw
a few questions
o could this be used as a dos and then become extortion?
has this actually happened, or is it just black heli?
o the ts&cs would seem to indicate that the donation is
voluntary, and proportional to the spam generated. e.g.,
if you generated no spam, no donation.
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of
> Robert Bonomi
> Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2005 2:11 PM
> To: nanog@merit.edu
> Subject: Re: sorbs.net
>
>
>
> > From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tue Mar 15 12:53:30 2005
> >
> From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tue Mar 15 12:53:30 2005
> Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 10:53:22 -0800
> From: Micah McNelly <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: sorbs.net
>
>
> Actually I got a response quickly from a list member who represent sorbs
> at some level. Do you re
This is straying a bit far from network operations, and would probably be
better discussed elsewhere.
-Steve
On Tue, 15 Mar 2005, Dave Dennis wrote:
>
> On Tue, 15 Mar 2005, Micah McNelly wrote:
>
> >
> > Actually I got a response quickly from a list member who represent sorbs
> > at some level
> SORBS -- like _any_ other blocklist -- is simply an expression of opinion.
> if you feel that "somebody" is 'wrongly' blocking mail because of a SORBS
> listing, your _first_ step should be to contact *that* party, and request
> that either (a) they stop using SORBS, or (b) that they 'whitelist
It's just cynicism at it's best. I like people who can be smartasses
without being asses, but this is ridiculous if they want to be a
serious service, and cute if they are looking to make jokes.
Gadi.
I totally agree. Although $50 is a little steep. I've seen people
fly in to gargantuan ra
On Tue, 15 Mar 2005, Micah McNelly wrote:
>
> Actually I got a response quickly from a list member who represent sorbs
> at some level. Do you really think opinion has a place in mail
> delivery? What if the USPS decided any magazine you subscribed to was
> suddenly unfit for delivery and decid
Actually I got a response quickly from a list member who represent sorbs
at some level. Do you really think opinion has a place in mail
delivery? What if the USPS decided any magazine you subscribed to was
suddenly unfit for delivery and decided it should blocked (thrown away)?
/m
Robert Bono
> From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tue Mar 15 11:59:40 2005
> Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 09:59:21 -0800
> From: Micah McNelly <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: nanog@merit.edu
> Subject: sorbs.net
>
>
> Nanog,
>
> Anyone on the list involved with this project? I need to speak to
> someone ASAP. No, I am not going t
From http://www.us.sorbs.net/faq/spamdb.shtml
"Third and finally, if you are really not a spammer, or you are truly reformed,
de-listing is relatively easy. You donate US$50 to a charity or trust approved by, and
not connected with, SORBS for each spam received relating to the listing (This is k
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of
> Micah McNelly
> Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2005 12:59 PM
> To: nanog@merit.edu
> Subject: sorbs.net
>
>
>
> Nanog,
>
> Anyone on the list involved with this project? I need to speak to
> someone ASAP.
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