(hoping this is still somewhat ontopic, should be much more ontopic than my
last reply was)
Robert Bonomi wrote:
Authoritative answer: Maybe.
Usually.
Depends on the locale, the state regulators, and the phone company.
Frequently called Lifeline service, when marketed for the elderly,
From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fri Aug 19 14:26:54 2005
From: Stephen Sprunk [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Robert Bonomi [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: North American Noise and Off-topic Gripes nanog@merit.edu
Subject: Re: New N.Y. Law Targets Hidden Net LD Tolls
Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2005 14:20:59 -0500
Thus spake
From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fri Aug 19 14:37:28 2005
From: Barry Shein [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2005 15:31:42 -0400
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: New N.Y. Law Targets Hidden Net LD Tolls
Can't one still get minimal phone service which charges a toll on
every phone call? I
On Sat, Aug 20, 2005 at 09:25:27AM -0500, Robert Bonomi wrote:
1-800-800, at least, has been in use for a number of years.
and I'm pretty sure I've seen 1-800-900 numbers.
here's a fairly big one: uunet public tech support 1-800-900-0241.
--
Henry Yen
On Sat, 20 Aug 2005, Robert Bonomi wrote:
To use 1+ for toll alerting, in locales where intra-NPA can be toll, and
inter-NPA can be local, you have to incur one of those sets of increased
expenses. And the 'inconveniences' to the customer.
Not really. Billable status of a call is known up
As I remember Tennessee's rules, the PSC requirement was that every
adjacent county was to be considered local.
Area codes could usually cover multiple counties, but you usually know
what city your calling destination is in. With ISP dial-in numbers, you
might not, but that's pretty much
Face it, 7D is dead; and even if overlays had not arrived, cell
phones would have killed it. Once you learn to think 10D, it's
trivial.
Oh, you ignorant rednecks.* Even my cell phone has 7D dialing and
it'll be a century before overlays arrive where I live.
The reason that it makes sense
That's why some states (e.g. Texas) require that all toll calls be
dialed as 1+ _regardless of area code_, and local calls cannot be
dialed as 1+. If you dial a number wrong, you get a message
telling you how to do it properly (and why).
In some places that solution is _not_practical_. As
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], John Levine writes:
Face it, 7D is dead; and even if overlays had not arrived, cell
phones would have killed it. Once you learn to think 10D, it's
trivial.
Oh, you ignorant rednecks.* Even my cell phone has 7D dialing
Mine doesn't -- ATT Wireless and Cingular
John Levine wrote:
Face it, 7D is dead; and even if overlays had not arrived, cell
phones would have killed it. Once you learn to think 10D, it's
trivial.
Oh, you ignorant rednecks.* Even my cell phone has 7D dialing and
it'll be a century before overlays arrive where I live.
The reason
On Fri, Aug 19, 2005 at 07:29:44PM +0200, Andre Oppermann wrote:
John Levine wrote:
Face it, 7D is dead; and even if overlays had not arrived, cell
phones would have killed it. Once you learn to think 10D, it's
trivial.
Oh, you ignorant rednecks.* Even my cell phone has 7D dialing and
John Levine wrote:
That's why some states (e.g. Texas) require that all toll calls be
dialed as 1+ _regardless of area code_, and local calls cannot be
dialed as 1+. If you dial a number wrong, you get a message
telling you how to do it properly (and why).
In some places that solution is
Thus spake Steven M. Bellovin [EMAIL PROTECTED]
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], John Levine writes:
Oh, you ignorant rednecks.* Even my cell phone has 7D dialing
Mine doesn't -- ATT Wireless and Cingular GSM phones have 10D
or 11D only, at least around here.
My T-Mobile GSM phone allows
On Fri, 19 Aug 2005, Steven M. Bellovin wrote:
Mine doesn't -- ATT Wireless and Cingular GSM phones have 10D or 11D
only, at least around here.
Leave it up to Cingular to be stupid. :P I've been a customer of Alltel,
Northcoast PCS, Sprint PCS and now T-Mobile, and the old GTE Wireless
Thus spake John Levine [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Face it, 7D is dead; and even if overlays had not arrived, cell
phones would have killed it. Once you learn to think 10D, it's
trivial.
Oh, you ignorant rednecks.* Even my cell phone has 7D dialing and
it'll be a century before overlays arrive where I
Thus spake Robert Bonomi [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[ attribution to me missing ]
That's why some states (e.g. Texas) require that all toll calls be
dialed as 1+ _regardless of area code_, and local calls cannot be
dialed as 1+. If you dial a number wrong, you get a message telling
you how to do it
Can't one still get minimal phone service which charges a toll on
every phone call? I know this used to cost like $5/mo but I think they
eliminated it in MA a few years ago, or made it hardship-only.
Simple business lines here normally charge for every phone call, 1MB
as they're called, MB =
On Fri, Aug 19, 2005 at 03:15:11PM -0400, Steven J. Sobol wrote:
On Fri, 19 Aug 2005, Steven M. Bellovin wrote:
Mine doesn't -- ATT Wireless and Cingular GSM phones have 10D or 11D
only, at least around here.
Leave it up to Cingular to be stupid. :P I've been a customer of Alltel,
On Fri, 19 Aug 2005, Stephen Sprunk wrote:
When you have seven nearby area codes (like I do), and parts of each of them
can be local or toll, there's no hope of memorizing prefixes. You guess based
on the distance, and you either get through or a recording tells you that you
guessed wrong.
On Fri, Aug 19, 2005 at 02:20:59PM -0500, Stephen Sprunk wrote:
Thus spake Robert Bonomi [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[ attribution to me missing ]
That's why some states (e.g. Texas) require that all toll calls be
dialed as 1+ _regardless of area code_, and local calls cannot be
dialed as 1+. If
On 8/19/2005 12:41 PM, John Levine wrote:
I agree that life would be simpler if there were some straightforward
way to ask telcos whether a call from a-b was local or toll.
As I remember Tennessee's rules, the PSC requirement was that every
adjacent county was to be considered local.
Area
On 8/17/2005 10:04 PM, Fergie (Paul Ferguson) wrote:
A new law that's apparently the first in the nation threatens to
penalize Internet service providers that fail to warn users that some
dial-up numbers can ring up enormous long-distance phone bills even
though they appear local.
aka,
On Thu, Aug 18, 2005 at 02:44:59AM -0400, Eric A. Hall wrote:
On 8/17/2005 10:04 PM, Fergie (Paul Ferguson) wrote:
A new law that's apparently the first in the nation threatens to
penalize Internet service providers that fail to warn users that some
dial-up numbers can ring up
On 8/18/2005 2:59 AM, Richard A Steenbergen wrote:
On Thu, Aug 18, 2005 at 02:44:59AM -0400, Eric A. Hall wrote:
On 8/17/2005 10:04 PM, Fergie (Paul Ferguson) wrote:
A new law that's apparently the first in the nation threatens to
penalize Internet service providers that fail to warn users
On Thu, Aug 18, 2005 at 12:19:25AM -0700, William C. Devine II wrote:
Just about all of the ISP's in my area, even those I've worked for, had
a 'disclaimer' on their user agreement that said that some of the local
phone numbers might be long distance and that the user should call the
operator
On Thu, 18 Aug 2005, Richard A Steenbergen wrote:
Sounds like the standard notice that all reputable ISPs are probably
already giving. Given the very real potential for grandma and grandpa to
pick a number off a list which looks like it is in their area code and end
up with a multi-thousand
On Thu, Aug 18, 2005 at 04:05:30AM -0400, Sean Donelan wrote:
On Thu, 18 Aug 2005, Richard A Steenbergen wrote:
Sounds like the standard notice that all reputable ISPs are probably
already giving. Given the very real potential for grandma and grandpa to
pick a number off a list which
On 8/18/2005 3:54 AM, Richard A Steenbergen wrote:
I'm not sure which part of this seems to have nothing to do with toll
scams wasn't clear the first time around, but this response still seems
to have no basis given the facts...
Is the NY AG authorized to regulate other-than illegal
Sean,
I assume the NY AG will also be targeting enforcement of Domino's Pizza
because they have lots of phone numbers and consumers may unknowingly dial
a phone number to order a pizza which may be a toll call in their area.
Somehow I don't think so. It takes maybe 5 minutes to order a pizza
Sean,
I assume the NY AG will also be targeting enforcement of Domino's Pizza
because they have lots of phone numbers and consumers may unknowingly dial
a phone number to order a pizza which may be a toll call in their area.
Somehow I don't think so. It takes maybe 5 minutes to order a pizza
Sean,
I assume the NY AG will also be targeting enforcement of Domino's Pizza
because they have lots of phone numbers and consumers may unknowingly dial
a phone number to order a pizza which may be a toll call in their area.
Somehow I don't think so. It takes maybe 5 minutes to order a pizza
On Thu, Aug 18, 2005 at 04:19:25AM -0400, Eric A. Hall wrote:
On 8/18/2005 3:54 AM, Richard A Steenbergen wrote:
I'm not sure which part of this seems to have nothing to do with toll
scams wasn't clear the first time around, but this response still seems
to have no basis given the
]; nanog@merit.edu
Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2005 4:27 AM
Subject: Re: New N.Y. Law Targets Hidden Net LD Tolls
Sean,
I assume the NY AG will also be targeting enforcement of Domino's Pizza
because they have lots of phone numbers and consumers may unknowingly
dial
a phone number to order
On Thu, 18 Aug 2005, Jonathan M. Slivko wrote:
I assume the NY AG will also be targeting enforcement of Domino's Pizza
because they have lots of phone numbers and consumers may unknowingly dial
a phone number to order a pizza which may be a toll call in their area.
Somehow I don't think
Those pennies can add up. And if you have ever called a government
office, you can sometimes spend a long time listening to music on
hold. Does the NY State Goverment warning citizens they may be charged
for phone calls to government offices?
I'm not sure if that's the same thing - since
On Thu, 18 Aug 2005, Richard A Steenbergen wrote:
On Thu, Aug 18, 2005 at 02:44:59AM -0400, Eric A. Hall wrote:
On 8/17/2005 10:04 PM, Fergie (Paul Ferguson) wrote:
A new law that's apparently the first in the nation threatens to
penalize Internet service providers that fail to
On Thu, 18 Aug 2005, Sean Donelan wrote:
On Thu, 18 Aug 2005, Richard A Steenbergen wrote:
Sounds like the standard notice that all reputable ISPs are probably
already giving. Given the very real potential for grandma and grandpa to
pick a number off a list which looks like it is in
Pardon my ignorance, but don't most phone companies require 10 digit dialing
for long-distance. We have similar situations in the rural area I live in,
but the customers know if they dial more than 7 digits, it WILL be long
distance.
No.
If you are in an overlay area, such as MD, parts of
*NOT* other people's fraud. Just when you have
'intra-LATA' toll charges
for some numbers within a single area-code. If the user is
on one side of
the area-code, and the provider's POP is on the far side of
it, you can have
a what appears to be a 'local' number, that does incur
On Thu, Aug 18, 2005 at 07:42:53AM -0500, Robert Bonomi wrote:
The CLEC can't tell you (and thus, neither can the ISP) which prefixes are a
'non-toll' call to their numbeers. And trying to get an authoritative answer
from the ILEC about what charges are to the CLEC's prefix can be _very_
--- Sean Donelan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I assume the NY AG will also be targeting
enforcement of Domino's Pizza
because they have lots of phone numbers and
consumers may unknowingly dial
a phone number to order a pizza which may be a toll
call in their area.
A typical call to Domino's
On Thu, 18 Aug 2005, Brian Johnson wrote:
Pardon my ignorance, but don't most phone companies require 10 digit dialing
for long-distance.
So I signed up for a trial of a spiffy service from RingCentral, who
insist that they have numbers local to Victorville/Apple Valley,
California, USA.
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of David Lesher
Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2005 8:31 AM
To: nanog list
Subject: Re: New N.Y. Law Targets Hidden Net LD Tolls
Pardon my ignorance, but don't most phone companies require
10
Thus spake Robert Bonomi [EMAIL PROTECTED]
*NOT* other people's fraud. Just when you have 'intra-LATA' toll
charges for some numbers within a single area-code. If the user is
on one side of the area-code, and the provider's POP is on the far
side of it, you can have a what appears to be a
From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thu Aug 18 11:04:41 2005
Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2005 07:56:10 -0700 (PDT)
From: David Barak [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: New N.Y. Law Targets Hidden Net LD Tolls
To: Sean Donelan [EMAIL PROTECTED], nanog@merit.edu
--- Sean Donelan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I assume
--- Robert Bonomi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
A typical call to a dial-up ISP is what, a few
hours?
Multiple times per month? Accidentally using a
non-local ISP number can result in a bill in the
hundreds of dollars pretty easily (also no pizza).
All true, but *WHY* is that
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: New N.Y. Law Targets Hidden Net LD Tolls
Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2005 12:53:43 -0500
Thus spake Robert Bonomi [EMAIL PROTECTED]
*NOT* other people's fraud. Just when you have 'intra-LATA' toll
charges for some numbers within a single area-code. If the user
Hi,
On Thu, Aug 18, 2005 at 03:54:38AM -0400, Richard A Steenbergen wrote:
To quote the original pasted article:
Consumers, however, must act on the warning that Internet providers must
soon post by contacting their phone companies to find out whether a
number is truly local.
It used
On Thu, 18 Aug 2005 13:47:11 CDT, Robert Bonomi said:
All true, but *WHY* is that 'accidentally dialing a non-local ISP number'
the *ISP's* fault??
Because the ISP gave the number to the user, often accompanied by text that
implied
that the number provided was an economical way to get
Speaking on Deep Background, the Press Secretary whispered:
Not unreasonable at all (although personally, I like
the TX-style all your long distance are 11D, else
10D approach). Simple consumer protection, similar
to the offtopic warning!
Ahem; MD has to me the most viable approach:
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