The off-topic nanog thread that won't die (where are the topic
police?...never around when you need one)...and then just when you think
it has died, some member's virus infected Microsoft Windows PC (hey is
that redundant?) replies to you with the thread's subject and no body
other than a virus at
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Worst design decisions?
Without a question: PS/2 style keyboard and mouse connectors.
Impossible to tell from each other, or the right way up without eyeballs
directly on them. A real PITA when trying to reach behind a desk or
rack. The console port is a
I think it was the new MG F, where if you had the top down
on the car and there was moisture on the boot [trunk] when
you opened the boot [trunk] people in the car would get showered!
They fixed it by adding a tighter spring so that the boot [trunk]
opened slowly and the water dripped down the sid
Frank wrote:
On Thu, 2003-09-18 at 00:43, Matt wrote:
Hello all,
Was doing some upgrades on a UBR7246 (to a VXR), and I got to thinking
about short sighted design considerations. I was curious if any of you
had some pet peeves from a design perspective to rant about. I'll start
with a cou
PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: Worst design decisions?
The 12016 does have handles on the sides, but the documentation states not
to use them for lifting purposes. Yeah, I laughed too, just before
realizing that bear-hugging a 16 into position takes a bit of motivation.
It is definitely one big hunk of
> overdesigned rather than poorly designed. even if nobody
> can use it, it's just an extraneous feature. an atm built
> into the concrete that you'd have to stop short of and
> get out of your car to use. now that would be poorly
> designed.
Do you mean overdesigned in the sense that becau
It's usually a legal risk deferrer decision to buy the ATM
casing with Braille. Someone pointed out that Drive-Ups and Walk-Ups are
the same, which it true for the internals but not Drive-Ups casing and
moldings, which are adjusted for the average eye level of a person in a
car, plus rece
Scott Granados <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 9/19/03 1:36:39 PM >>>
>
>Actually, not what I've heard. I have a contact at a large east
coast
>bank who told me they were charged extra for Braille per ATM. I had
>assumed for years it was a case of build them all one way only to
save
>cost. But in fact
> 2. The BAT csu/dsu, a cheap T1 csu/dsu which used red LED's to indicate
> that all was well (or was it green to indicate an alarm?)
As admitted by them, whatever cheap LED's they could by at Fry's on deep
discount.
No, I am not kidding.
-- Alex Rubenstein, AR97, K2AHR, [EMAIL PROTECTED],
ROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, September 19, 2003 11:34 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Worst design decisions?
Thus spake Mike Donahue ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [19/09/03 15:28]:
> Hi.. I might have missed the post, but braille on drive through has
zero to
> do with a design mistake - it
Actually, not what I've heard. I have a contact at a large east coast
bank who told me they were charged extra for Braille per ATM. I had
assumed for years it was a case of build them all one way only to save
cost. But in fact this is not the case.
At least for the type they use.
On Fri, 19
Thus spake Mike Donahue ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [19/09/03 15:28]:
> Hi.. I might have missed the post, but braille on drive through has zero to
> do with a design mistake - it's practicality. The ATM manufacturer doesn't
> put out a "drive-through" and "walk-up" model - it puts out one, and then
> it
>At 04:24 PM 9/18/2003, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>> The US Congress.
>> "can you say ADA - sure you can" - Fred Rodgers
>>
>>> Who thought it was a good idea to put braille on the drive up atms?
>While I don't know if the person in question was blind or not, I *have*
seen someone use a >drive-
On Fri, 19 Sep 2003 12:08:33 PDT, Scott Granados said:
> noise anyway. So that someone looking over your shoulder will still be
> there unless you've memorized the prompts on your local atm, a possibility
> granted.
Works for my dad - though he did have to call the bank once, turned out
they had
Just to clerify, since I've gotten a ton of these.
I'm totally blind have been for 28 years.
Braille on walk up machines, makes good sense. As does it on lifts and
microwave oven buttons etc. It does not make good sense on airplane lights
and it makes less sense on drive up atms.
Especialy whe
RJ45 connectors: Nasty fiddly things that never seem to work the first
time you wire them up. (snip, curse, try again...)
Chris
--
Chris Horry "Don't submit to stupid rules,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] Be yourself and not a fool.
PGP: DSA/2B4C654E Don't accept average habits,
Amateur
In a message written on Thu, Sep 18, 2003 at 03:53:44PM -0700, Ben Browning wrote:
> Cisco V-notched power cables - Design "feature" geared around getting
> suckers to buy a power cable for 45USD.
Uh, you might want to be careful with these connections. You'll
note the IEC-320 C13/C14 connectors
On Thu, 18 Sep 2003, Ben Browning wrote:
>
> Cisco V-notched power cables - Design "feature" geared around getting
> suckers to buy a power cable for 45USD.
No! those are great!! you get to yell at the poor sap that uses your Cisco
power cable on their monitor! :) And when they do, and you can'
1. Any device whose physical characteristics make it a likely candidate
to be shelf-mounted, yet which has side ventilation ports which will be
blocked by the sides of a rack shelf.
2. The BAT csu/dsu, a cheap T1 csu/dsu which used red LED's to indicate
that all was well (or was it green to indic
On Thu, 18 Sep 2003 16:14:39 PDT, Scott Granados said:
> Who thought it was a good idea to put braille on the drive up atms?
My dad's legally blind. That braille makes it possible for him to get cash
(either from the back seat or step out and walk up) if somebody's
giving him a ride, without hi
Once upon a time, Ben Browning <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:
> The little clippy widgets (looks kind of like @) on some oldschool racks,
> that hold the nut in place for the hex-head bolt. Why these were considered
> desirable is beyond me.
We've got a bunch of racks like that (and my PDP8 rack at
At 04:24 PM 9/18/2003, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
The US Congress.
"can you say ADA - sure you can" - Fred Rodgers
> Who thought it was a good idea to put braille on the drive up atms?
While I don't know if the person in question was blind or not, I *have*
seen someone use a drive-up ATM from the
I'm still trying to find out the point of labeling the light switches in
airplanes. I can see the point of doing it if the button is obvious to
the touch, but on some planes they use membrane switches that aren't
obvious to the touch. I know the ADA probably requires them to label
light switches,
The US Congress.
"can you say ADA - sure you can" - Fred Rodgers
> Who thought it was a good idea to put braille on the drive up atms?
--bill (sorry ren, I couldn't resist)
Your all missing my most favorite bad design decision.
And I know that in other areas this has been mentioned and made fun of
enough but ...
Who thought it was a good idea to put braille on the drive up atms?
And having a contact in banking I do know that banks pay extra for this
feature its n
On Thu, Sep 18, 2003 at 03:53:44PM -0700, Ben Browning wrote:
>
> Procurve switch management interface. Archaic, arcane, insane, unusable.
I'm actually quite happy with the HP ProCurve switch interface, the web
interface is the first thing to be disabled though.
--
Matthew S. Hallacy
> Was doing some upgrades on a UBR7246 (to a VXR), and I got to thinking
> about short sighted design considerations. I was curious if any of you
> had some pet peeves from a design perspective to rant about. I'll start
> with a couple.
Here are a few of mine:
The little clippy widgets (looks
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Todd Vierling <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>On Thu, 18 Sep 2003 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
>: Without a question: PS/2 style keyboard and mouse connectors. Impossible
>: to tell from each other,
>
>And this part is somewhat funny, too, because the PS/2 connector
l Message-
> From: Peter E. Fry [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2003 11:02 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: Worst design decisions?
>
>
> David Barak wrote:
>
> > Personally my issues are console-cable related: is
> > there a b
clip off the hood
> > > with a pair of manicure scissors.
> > >
> > > - Original Message -
> > > From: "Gerald" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > To: "Daryl G. Jurbala" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > Cc: "nanog list
]
Subject: Re: Worst design decisions?
David Barak wrote:
> Personally my issues are console-cable related: is
> there a benefit to the HUGE variety of console pinouts
> used by the various hardware vendors? Just look at
> vendor C as an example [...]
Is that the best example you can
Hello All ,
On Thu, 18 Sep 2003, Gerald wrote:
> On Thu, 18 Sep 2003 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > Actually, as awkward as those rubber hoods are, what I like about them is
> > that when you're pulling a disconnected patch cable through a rat's nest
> > of wires, they prevent the plastic t
> Hello all,
>
> Was doing some upgrades on a UBR7246 (to a VXR), and I got to thinking
> about short sighted design considerations. I was curious if any of you
> had some pet peeves from a design perspective to rant about. I'll start
> with a couple.
try cisco-nsp. Single vendor stuff is
On Thu, Sep 18, 2003 at 02:39:51PM -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> Actually, as awkward as those rubber hoods are, what I like about them is
> that when you're pulling a disconnected patch cable through a rat's nest
> of wires, they prevent the plastic tab from being bent backward.
Not a sh
uot;Gerald" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: "Daryl G. Jurbala" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Cc: "nanog list" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2003 10:16
> > Subject: RE: Worst design decisions?
> >
> >
> &
On Thu, 18 Sep 2003 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Actually, as awkward as those rubber hoods are, what I like about them is
> that when you're pulling a disconnected patch cable through a rat's nest
> of wires, they prevent the plastic tab from being bent backward.
Since you are the second person t
urbala" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Cc: "nanog list" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2003 10:16
> Subject: RE: Worst design decisions?
>
>
> >
> > On Thu, 18 Sep 2003, Daryl G. Jurbala wrote:
> >
> > > * PCs with b
>The hands-down winner, so far, is the Cisco
>CMS-formerly-known-as-Arrowpoint, which has an RJ45 console cable
>which WILL NOT WORK, full stop, with the RJ45 connectors on Cisco's
>own console servers.
>
>*wild applause*
Ah, yes. I've run into that bad boy. It really stinks to come in to
work in
In the immortal words of Justin Shore ([EMAIL PROTECTED]):
>
>
>
> I can think of 6 different console cable pinouts and connectors that
> Enterasys (Cabletron) has used over the years. No wait, make that 7. How
> could I forget the inherited Fore ATM architecture and subsequent blades.
>
Even better: the old bay switches had a backdoor password, that you
could always use no matter what. Great security there. G. I
had to deal with a campus full of them, and since they had of course
forgotten all the passwords, so it was a good thing in that case, I
could actually reconfigur
On Thu, 18 Sep 2003 17:04:47 + (GMT), E.B. Dreger
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
You have reminded me of Bay's config GUI. I shall have
nightmares tonight.
Back in the winter of '00, I had the pleasure of working on a friend's old
Bay. He was using it for a home-based ISP, and, well, I believe
- Original Message -
From: "E.B. Dreger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2003 1:04 PM
Subject: Re: Worst design decisions?
> You have reminded me of Bay's config GUI. I shall have
On Thu, 18 Sep 2003, E.B. Dreger wrote:
> PEF> From: Peter E. Fry
> PEF> Is that the best example you can come up with? Ever use any
> PEF> Bay equipment...?
>
> You have reminded me of Bay's config GUI. I shall have
> nightmares tonight.
How about BCC?
bcc#config
... wait ...
--
Dominic
David Barak wrote:
Personally my issues are console-cable related: is
there a benefit to the HUGE variety of console pinouts
used by the various hardware vendors? Just look at
vendor C as an example [...]
Makes me remember when representatives from mentioned vendor made funny
looks when I
PEF> Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 11:02:08 -0500
PEF> From: Peter E. Fry
PEF> Is that the best example you can come up with? Ever use any
PEF> Bay equipment...?
You have reminded me of Bay's config GUI. I shall have
nightmares tonight.
Eddy
--
Brotsman & Dreger, Inc. - EverQuick Internet Division
My vote goes to the EMI gasket Cisco's BPX 8600 cards. The gasket was
tacky enough to maintain a nice seal between cards ... enough to remove one
or two adjacent cards when you pulled the card out.
Special runner up nominee is whatever do-gooder decided it was a good idea
to have a cell phone bee
David Barak wrote:
> Personally my issues are console-cable related: is
> there a benefit to the HUGE variety of console pinouts
> used by the various hardware vendors? Just look at
> vendor C as an example [...]
Is that the best example you can come up with? Ever use any Bay
equipment...?
On Thu, 18 Sep 2003 09:53:38 -0400
"Daryl G. Jurbala" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> * And how about this: Cisco: PICK A BUSINESS END ON YOUR SMALL OFFICE
> ROUTING EQUIPMENT. Most of my less clued customer like to "help out"
> and rack the equipment ahead of time. And it always gets done pretty
On Thu, 18 Sep 2003, John Palmer wrote:
: > ...and combine that with the RJ45 connecters that have a rubber hood over
: > the release. Gr!
: Thats to prevent it from being disconnected accidentally
: (or for any other reason :->)
Actually, the original intent of those hoods was to snagproof
I can't stand it when I sit down and find the keyboard in front of me has
moved the "backslash" key. It drives me crazy and prompts me to find a real
keyboard right away to work with.
CB
On Thu, 18 Sep 2003, Todd Vierling wrote:
>
> On Thu, 18 Sep 2003 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> : Without a question: PS/2 style keyboard and mouse connectors. Impossible
> : to tell from each other,
>
> And this part is somewhat funny, too, because the PS/2 connector layout is
> capable of h
" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: "nanog list" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2003 10:16
Subject: RE: Worst design decisions?
>
> On Thu, 18 Sep 2003, Daryl G. Jurbala wrote:
>
> > * PCs with built in Ethernet that is so close to a lip on t
On Thu, 18 Sep 2003, David Barak wrote:
>
>
> --- Matt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > I've got a couple others in my head from 3Com and a
> > couple of others,
> > but I thought I'd get the ball rolling. So, what do
> > you think?
> >
>
> Personally my issues are console-cable related: is
>
On Thu, 18 Sep 2003, Daryl G. Jurbala wrote:
> * PCs with built in Ethernet that is so close to a lip on the case, with
> the release pointed down, that you need to use a
> screwdriver/knife/whatever to release the cable.
...and combine that with the RJ45 connecters that have a rubber hood over
thick, unwieldy cables to lift the unscrewed end
ever-so-slightly out of its socket.
-bob
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2003 10:57 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Worst design decisions
On Thu, 18 Sep 2003 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
: Without a question: PS/2 style keyboard and mouse connectors. Impossible
: to tell from each other,
And this part is somewhat funny, too, because the PS/2 connector layout is
capable of having both devices share the same bus (there's two unconnect
Without a question: PS/2 style keyboard and mouse connectors. Impossible
to tell from each other, or the right way up without eyeballs directly on
them. A real PITA when trying to reach behind a desk or rack. The
console port is a close second, though...
On Thu, 18 Sep 2003, David Barak wrot
--- Matt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I've got a couple others in my head from 3Com and a
> couple of others,
> but I thought I'd get the ball rolling. So, what do
> you think?
>
Personally my issues are console-cable related: is
there a benefit to the HUGE variety of console pinouts
used by
Message-
> From: Matt [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2003 5:43 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Worst design decisions?
>
>
>
> Hello all,
>
> Was doing some upgrades on a UBR7246 (to a VXR), and I got to
> thinking
> about
EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "nanog list" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2003 10:01 AM
Subject: Re: Worst design decisions?
>
>
> Sorry, I missed the hands-down winner in my initial thinking,
> since it's not in my arena [hardware]..
>
> The en
On Thu, 18 Sep 2003, David Lesher wrote:
: Sorry, I missed the hands-down winner in my initial thinking,
: since it's not in my arena [hardware]..
Oh, the hardware one's easy, though. The modern PC, which does not by
default come with a remote management (typically RS-232) system-level
console.
Sorry, I missed the hands-down winner in my initial thinking,
since it's not in my arena [hardware]..
The envelope please..
Micro$loth Lookout
{applause}
Starting with "Let's invent top-posting" and moving to its
virus-spreading abilities; Lookout has never met a standard, either
* How about the plastic stand-offs that hold the AIM-VPN cards in the
2600 and 1700 series. Yeah...the ones that DON'T come with your
SmartNet replacement chassis and that you have the pull the entire board
to release.
* And how about this: Cisco: PICK A BUSINESS END ON YOUR SMALL OFFICE
ROUTING
Cisco 4x00 frame rails are the king - bend 'em and you'll be using a
chisel to open the metal chassis so you can remove the NPs. I've still
got a 4000 around here somewhere that was shuffled to lab duty after I
did surgery on it with a large cold chisel & mallet.
Matt wrote:
>
> Hello all,
>
How about MB chipset fans which always seem to fail! I avoid any mobo with
a chipset fan if possible. This is still commonplace and I still see them
fail all the time.
At 09:09 AM 9/18/2003, Ryan Dobrynski wrote:
I have beef with every chasis designer that has ever left a sharp edge
hidden deep
At 08:57 AM 9/18/2003, David Lesher wrote:
Speaking on Deep Background, the Press Secretary whispered:
>
>
> Hello all,
>
> Was doing some upgrades on a UBR7246 (to a VXR), and I got to thinking
> about short sighted design considerations. I was curious if any of you
> had some pet peeves from a
I have beef with every chasis designer that has ever left a sharp edge
hidden deep inside thier "case of doom" just waiting to gash some poor IT
guy in a most unpleasent manor..
also ASUS who insists on putting thier onboard sound interface at the
BOTTOM of the MB when they know that the little c
Speaking on Deep Background, the Press Secretary whispered:
>
>
> Hello all,
>
> Was doing some upgrades on a UBR7246 (to a VXR), and I got to thinking
> about short sighted design considerations. I was curious if any of you
> had some pet peeves from a design perspective to rant about. I'l
Frank wrote:
the orginal GSR blanks came without handles. They were also put in tight
as ***. For days after, your fingers would have the imprints of the
little screws on them. I once use my socks to protect my fingers when I
was pulling them out.
Some Cisco gear also arrived with the flash car
On Thu, 2003-09-18 at 00:43, Matt wrote:
> Hello all,
>
> Was doing some upgrades on a UBR7246 (to a VXR), and I got to thinking
> about short sighted design considerations. I was curious if any of you
> had some pet peeves from a design perspective to rant about. I'll start
> with a couple.
I'm stuck as a consultant type administrator. And as it's my lot in life,
nine out of ten small to medium size companies have been making do with a
dsl line, and some bit or bob of Linksys routing equipment. Time passed
and they outgrew that they threw on another 8 port swtich, and another,
and an
Matt wrote:
Hello all,
Was doing some upgrades on a UBR7246 (to a VXR), and I got to thinking
about short sighted design considerations. I was curious if any of
you had some pet peeves from a design perspective to rant about. I'll
start with a couple.
I've got a couple others in my head fro
: Worst design decisions?
The 12016 does have handles on the sides, but the documentation states not
to use them for lifting purposes. Yeah, I laughed too, just before
realizing that bear-hugging a 16 into position takes a bit of motivation.
It is definitely one big hunk of iron (300+lbs on the
lto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2003 5:43 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Worst design decisions?
Hello all,
Was doing some upgrades on a UBR7246 (to a VXR), and I got to thinking
about short sighted design considerations. I was curious if any of you
had some pet peeves fro
On Wed, 17 Sep 2003 17:43:24 CDT, Matt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:
> I've got a couple others in my head from 3Com and a couple of others,
> but I thought I'd get the ball rolling. So, what do you think?
Well.. maybe it's just still fresh in my memory and the aggravation factor
is higher because
Hello all,
Was doing some upgrades on a UBR7246 (to a VXR), and I got to thinking
about short sighted design considerations. I was curious if any of you
had some pet peeves from a design perspective to rant about. I'll start
with a couple.
1) Why did Cisco design the I/O controller on the 72
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