[Nanog] Lies, Damned Lies, and Statistics [Was: Re: ATT VP: Internet to hit capacity by 2010]

2008-04-22 Thread Paul Ferguson
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 - -- William Warren [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Here in comcast land hdtv is actually averaging around 12 megabits a second. Still adds up to staggering numbers..:) Another disturbing fact inside this entire mess is that, by compressing HD content,

Re: [Nanog] Lies, Damned Lies, and Statistics [Was: Re: ATT VP: Internet to hit capacity by 2010]

2008-04-22 Thread Petri Helenius
Time to push multicast as transport for bittorrent? If the downloads get better performance that way, I think the clients would be around quicker that multicast would be enabled for consumer DSL or cable. Pete Paul Ferguson wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 - --

[Nanog] REDUSE LEASE PERIOD

2008-04-22 Thread Felix Bako
Hi Guyz We have a cisco PDSN that acts as a NAS for our Wireless BroadBand Clients. The PDSN tackles the IP alllocation Part. This is because we have defined the ips to be allocated using the IP LOCAL POOL command. Is there a way to reduce the lease period of the allocated IPs. The IOS code is

Re: [Nanog] Lies, Damned Lies, and Statistics [Was: Re: ATT VP: Internet to hit capacity by 2010]

2008-04-22 Thread michael.dillon
Time to push multicast as transport for bittorrent? Bittorrent clients are already multicast, only they do it in a crude way that does not match network topology as well as it could. Moving to use IP multicast raises a whole host of technical issues such as lack of multicast peering. Solving

Re: [Nanog] ATT VP: Internet to hit capacity by 2010

2008-04-22 Thread michael.dillon
I think you're too high there! MPEG2 SD is around 4-6Mbps, MPEG4 SD is around 2-4Mbps, MPEG4 HD is anywhere from 8 to 20Mbps, depending on how much wow factor the broadcaster is trying to give. Nope, ATSC is 19 (more accurately 19.28) megabits per second. So why would anyone plug

Re: [Nanog] ATT VP: Internet to hit capacity by 2010

2008-04-22 Thread Dorn Hetzel
It's certainly not reasonable to assume the same video goes to all consumers, but on the other hand, there *is* plenty of video that goes to a *lot* of consumers. I don't really need my own personal unicast copy of the bits that make up an episode of BSG or whatever. I would hope that the future

Re: [Nanog] ATT VP: Internet to hit capacity by 2010

2008-04-22 Thread Brandon Butterworth
So why would anyone plug an ATSC feed directly into the Internet? Because we can. One day ISPs might do multicast and it might become cheap enough to deliver to the home. If we don't then they probably will never bother fixing those two problems I've been multicasting the BBCs channels in the

Re: [Nanog] ATT VP: Internet to hit capacity by 2010

2008-04-22 Thread Marshall Eubanks
On Apr 21, 2008, at 9:35 PM, Frank Bulk - iNAME wrote: I've found it interesting that those who do Internet TV (re)define HD in a way that no one would consider HD anymore except the provider. =) The FCC did not appear to set a bit rate specification for HD Television. The ATSC

Re: [Nanog] Lies, Damned Lies, and Statistics [Was: Re: ATT VP: Internet to hit capacity by 2010]

2008-04-22 Thread Mark Smith
On Tue, 22 Apr 2008 11:55:58 +0100 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Time to push multicast as transport for bittorrent? Bittorrent clients are already multicast, only they do it in a crude way that does not match network topology as well as it could. Moving to use IP multicast raises a whole

Re: [Nanog] Lies, Damned Lies, and Statistics [Was: Re: ATT VP: Internet to hit capacity by 2010]

2008-04-22 Thread Petri Helenius
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: But there is another way. That is for software developers to build a modified client that depends on a topology guru for information on the network topology. This topology guru would be some software that is run While the current bittorrent implementation is

Re: [Nanog] Lies, Damned Lies, and Statistics [Was: Re: ATT VP: Internet to hit capacity by 2010]

2008-04-22 Thread Brandon Butterworth
Is there a problem that needs to be solved that is not solved by Akamai's of the world already? Yes, the ones that aren't Akamai want to play too branodn ___ NANOG mailing list NANOG@nanog.org http://mailman.nanog.org/mailman/listinfo/nanog

Re: [Nanog] Cogent Router dropping packets

2008-04-22 Thread manolo
Well it had sounded like I was in the minority and should keep my mouth shut. But here goes. On several occasions the peer that would advertise our routes would drop and with that the peer with the full bgp tables would drop as well. This happened for months on end. They tried blaming our

Re: [Nanog] ATT VP: Internet to hit capacity by 2010

2008-04-22 Thread Joe Greco
All this talk of exafloods seems to ignore the basic economics of IP networks. No ISP is going to allow subscribers to pull in 8gigs per day of video stream. And no broadcaster is going to pay for the bandwidth needed to pump out all those ATSC streams. And nobody is going to stick IP

Re: [Nanog] Lies, Damned Lies, and Statistics [Was: Re: ATT VP: Internet to hit capacity by 2010]

2008-04-22 Thread Matthew Moyle-Croft
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ... You need a way to insert non-technical information about the network into the decision-making process. The only way for this to work is to allow the network operator to have a role in every P2P transaction. And to do that you need a middlebox that sits in the

Re: [Nanog] Lies, Damned Lies, and Statistics [Was: Re: ATT VP: Internet to hit capacity by 2010]

2008-04-22 Thread Matthew Moyle-Croft
(I know, replying to your own email is sad ...) You could probably do this with a variant of DNS. Use an Anycast address common to everyone to solve the discovery problem. Client sends a DNS request for a TXT record for, as an example, 148.165.32.217.p2ptopology.org. The topology box

Re: [Nanog] Lies, Damned Lies, and Statistics [Was: Re: ATT VP: Internet to hit capacity by 2010]

2008-04-22 Thread Alexander Harrowell
NCAP - Network Capability (or Cost) Announcement Protocol. On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 2:24 PM, Matthew Moyle-Croft [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: (I know, replying to your own email is sad ...) You could probably do this with a variant of DNS. Use an Anycast address common to everyone to solve the

Re: [Nanog] Cogent Router dropping packets

2008-04-22 Thread Joe Greco
Well it had sounded like I was in the minority and should keep my mouth shut. But here goes. On several occasions the peer that would advertise our routes would drop and with that the peer with the full bgp tables would drop as well. This happened for months on end. They tried blaming our

Re: [Nanog] ATT VP: Internet to hit capacity by 2010

2008-04-22 Thread Joe Greco
On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 2:02 PM, Joe Greco [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As far as I am concerned the killer application for IP multicast is *NOT* video, it's market data feeds from NYSE, NASDAQ, CBOT, etc. You can go compare the relative successes of Yahoo! Finance and YouTube. While it

Re: [Nanog] Lies, Damned Lies, and Statistics [Was: Re: ATT VP: Internet to hit capacity by 2010]

2008-04-22 Thread Stephane Bortzmeyer
On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 02:02:21PM +0100, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote a message of 46 lines which said: This is where all the algorithmic tinkering of the P2P software cannot solve the problem. You need a way to insert non-technical information about the network into the

Re: [Nanog] Cogent Router dropping packets

2008-04-22 Thread manolo
Well it also was the total arrogance on the part of Cogent engineering and management taking zero responsibility and pushing it back everytime valid issue or not. You had to be there. But everyone has a different opinion, my opinion is set regardless of what cogent tries to sell me now.

[Nanog] Anyone know how I can contact uky.edu abuse?

2008-04-22 Thread Jake Matthews
I've tried from 4-5 different mail providers to send something to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Can't figure out what's wrong, as I've never seen AuthRequired anywhere before. Every single one of them has gotten the reply of: *Delivery has failed to these recipients or distribution lists:* [EMAIL

Re: [Nanog] Lies, Damned Lies, and Statistics [Was: Re: ATT VP: Internet to hit capacity by 2010]

2008-04-22 Thread Laird Popkin
This raises an interesting issue - should optimization of p2p traffic (P4P) be based on static network information, or dynamic network information. It's certainly easier for ISP's to provide a simple network map that real-time network condition data, but the real-time data might be much more

Re: [Nanog] ATT VP: Internet to hit capacity by 2010

2008-04-22 Thread Bruce Curtis
On Apr 22, 2008, at 9:15 AM, Marc Manthey wrote: Am 22.04.2008 um 16:05 schrieb Bruce Curtis: p2p isn't the only way to deliver content overnight, content could also be delivered via multicast overnight. http://www.intercast.com/Eng/Index.asp http://kazam.com/Eng/About/About.jsp hmm

Re: [Nanog] Anyone know how I can contact uky.edu abuse?

2008-04-22 Thread John Kristoff
On Tue, 22 Apr 2008 10:44:07 -0400 Jake Matthews [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've tried from 4-5 different mail providers to send something to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Can't figure out what's wrong, as I've never seen AuthRequired anywhere before. If it is security related, I highly recommend you

Re: [Nanog] Anyone know how I can contact uky.edu abuse?

2008-04-22 Thread Michael Holstein
Try the voice route .. their helpdesk is (859) 257-1300 Cheers, Michael Holstein Cleveland State University I've tried from 4-5 different mail providers to send something to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Can't figure out what's wrong, as I've never seen AuthRequired anywhere before. Every single

Re: [Nanog] ATT VP: Internet to hit capacity by 2010

2008-04-22 Thread Joe Greco
IP multicast does not help you when you have 1000 subscribers all pulling in 1000 unique streams. Yes, that's potentially a problem. That doesn't mean that multicast can not be leveraged to handle prerecorded material, but it does suggest that you could really use a TiVo-like

Re: [Nanog] ATT VP: Internet to hit capacity by 2010

2008-04-22 Thread Adrian Chadd
On Tue, Apr 22, 2008, Marc Manthey wrote: hmm sorry i did not get it IMHO multicast ist uselese for VOD , correct ? As a delivery mechanism to end-users? Sure. As a way of feeding content to edge boxes which then serve VOD? Maybe not so useless. But then, its been years since I toyed with

Re: [Nanog] ATT VP: Internet to hit capacity by 2010

2008-04-22 Thread Joe Abley
On 22 Apr 2008, at 12:47, Joe Greco wrote: You mean a computer? Like the one that runs file-sharing clients? Like the one that nobody really wants to watch large quantities of television on? Perhaps more like the mac mini that's plugged into the big plasma screen in the living room? Or

Re: [Nanog] ATT VP: Internet to hit capacity by 2010

2008-04-22 Thread Williams, Marc
The OSCAR is the first H.264 encoder appliance designed by HaiVision specifically for QuickTime environments. It natively supports the RTSP streaming media protocol. The OSCAR can stream directly to QuickTime supporting up to full D1 resolution (full standard definition resolution or 720 x 480

Re: [Nanog] Cogent Router dropping packets

2008-04-22 Thread John van Oppen (list account)
I know I have experienced the engineering department there as well, the best one was when they wanted paper documentation for every route I asked to have in our filters... (and they were incapable of using RADB). It was especially odd since we have 80 of our own peers and three other transit

[Nanog] OARC DNS Operations Meeting, Brooklyn NY, 4/5th June

2008-04-22 Thread Keith Mitchell
I'm pleased to announce the next OARC DNS Operations meeting will take place immediately after the NANOG43 meeting, in Brooklyn, NY, USA. The venue will be CUNY's Brooklyn College, about 5 miles from the NANOG Hotel. The open DNS Operations workshop will take place on the afternoon of Wed 4th

Re: [Nanog] Cogent Router dropping packets

2008-04-22 Thread Pete Templin
John van Oppen (list account) wrote: I know I have experienced the engineering department there as well, the best one was when they wanted paper documentation for every route I asked to have in our filters... (and they were incapable of using RADB). It was especially odd since we have 80

Re: [Nanog] ATT VP: Internet to hit capacity by 2010

2008-04-22 Thread Joe Greco
On 22 Apr 2008, at 12:47, Joe Greco wrote: You mean a computer? Like the one that runs file-sharing clients? Like the one that nobody really wants to watch large quantities of television on? Perhaps more like the mac mini that's plugged into the big plasma screen in the living

[Nanog] Crypto export restricted prefix list

2008-04-22 Thread Kevin Blackham
Is there a prefix list available listing the IP space of cryptographic export restricted countries? My google skills are failing me. I'm required to apply a ban on North Korea, Iran, Syria, Sudan and Cuba. ___ NANOG mailing list NANOG@nanog.org

Re: [Nanog] ATT VP: Internet to hit capacity by 2010

2008-04-22 Thread Marc Manthey
...is the first H.264 encoder .. designed by specifically for ... environments. It natively supports the RTSP streaming media protocol. can stream directly to . hi marc so your oskar can rtsp multicast stream over ipv6 and quicktime not , or was this just an