You forgot the clip board. Without the clip board, no one will believe
it.
J
-Original Message-
From: Andy Ringsmuth [mailto:andyr...@inebraska.com]
Sent: Friday, April 10, 2009 1:52 PM
To: Daryl G. Jurbala
Cc: nanog@nanog.org
Subject: Re: Outside plant protection, fiber cuts,
I agree 100 percent The clipboard makes it official...
--Original Message--
From: Jamie Bowden
To: Andy Ringsmuth
Cc: nanog@nanog.org
Subject: RE: Outside plant protection, fiber cuts, interwebz down oh noes!
Sent: Apr 13, 2009 9:07 AM
You forgot the clip board. Without the clip
I know it's fun to have these sort of discussions.. however, here
in Toronto anyway all of the splicers, construction people and other
contractors all know each other enough to be able to spot somebody
thats not auposed to be there. The city inspectors are cruising all
day looking for
Hi Thomas,
Please paste me a traceroute to google.com
Regards,
Bruce
On Monday 13 April 2009 3:45:10 pm Matikiti, Thomas wrote:
Wazup Bruce - I'm a bit concerned about our speeds here even today when
they are two people in the office I still find myself struggling to
browse the internet due
I certainly agree that its only the two you
Output queue: 0/40 (size/max)
30 second input rate 16000 bits/sec, 9 packets/sec
30 second output rate 9000 bits/sec, 7 packets/sec
51056 packets input, 28961683 bytes
KPMG-BR#sh clock
15:48:52.249 GMT Mon Apr 13 2009
A significant
Kindly disregard my last it was sent in error.
My sincerest apologies guys, this really wasn't intended to end up here.
Bruce
On Monday 13 April 2009 4:08:06 pm robbie.ja...@regions.com wrote:
please stop posting this to nanog. much appreciated.
Bruce Anthony
Grobler
br...@yoafrica.c
Mike Lewinski wrote:
Joe Greco wrote:
Which brings me to a new point: if we accept that security by
obscurity is not security, then, what (practical thing) IS security?
Obscurity as a principle works just fine provided the given token is
obscure enough. Ideally there are layers of security
On Mon, 13 Apr 2009 09:18:04 -0500
Stephen Sprunk step...@sprunk.org wrote:
Mike Lewinski wrote:
Joe Greco wrote:
Which brings me to a new point: if we accept that security by
obscurity is not security, then, what (practical thing) IS
security?
Obscurity as a principle works just
A friend mentioned at dinner yesterday that he spotted several ATT
trucks next to manholes in the area affected by the fiber cut. They
were busy welding the manhole covers to their rims.
On Monday 13 April 2009 11:06:55 Roy wrote:
A friend mentioned at dinner yesterday that he spotted several ATT
trucks next to manholes in the area affected by the fiber cut. They
were busy welding the manhole covers to their rims.
:-)
Sounds like a cutting torch or portable chop saw will
Wouldn't some authentication system be more useful than trying to lock
all the manholes? Picture a system maybe using RFID or some other radio
system where you walk up to manhole, wave your 'wand' (like a Mobil
Speedpass), you hear a couple beeps, and you're cleared to open the
manhole. Without
One thing that is missing here is before we can define security we
need to define the threat and the obstruction the security creates.
With an ATM machine, the threat is someone comes and steals the machine
for the cash. The majority of the assailants in an ATM case are not
interested in the
This bears investigating. I live 3 blocks away. Looks like I'm going on a
stroll after work tonight.
Bobby Glover
Director of Information Services
South Valley Interet (AS4307)
- Original Message -
From: Roy r.engehau...@gmail.com
To: nanog na...@merit.edu
Sent: Monday, April 13,
Yes, they could create a solution for this that will cost money, or
they could just take out the welding specs and go to town for a
fraction of the price.
This type of stuff is typical of incident response... Fix the bleeding
and create a long term solution that won't be as big of an
On Mon, 13 Apr 2009, Dylan Ebner wrote:
Manhole locks are just going to stop vandalism, and I think the threat
to obstruction calculation just doesn't add up for that small level of
isolated cases.
It doesn't stop it, it just makes it slightly harder, and they'll go after
another point.
On 4/13/09, Lamar Owen lo...@pari.edu wrote:
On Monday 13 April 2009 11:06:55 Roy wrote:
A friend mentioned at dinner yesterday that he spotted several ATT
trucks next to manholes in the area affected by the fiber cut. They
were busy welding the manhole covers to their rims.
:-)
It all comes down to money... It will cost them lots of it to get power and
some type of readers installed to monitor manhole access... There has always
been a lack of security on the telco side, this incident just brings it to
light... In my town many of the verizon fios boxes are not locked
On Apr 13, 2009, at 11:12 AM, Mikael Abrahamsson wrote:
Manhole locks are just going to stop vandalism, and I think the
threat
to obstruction calculation just doesn't add up for that small level
of
isolated cases.
It doesn't stop it, it just makes it slightly harder, and they'll go
On 4/13/09, Dylan Ebner dylan.eb...@crlmed.com wrote:
My point is, it is getting harder and harder to gurantee path divergence
and sometimes the redundancies need to be built into the workflow
instead of IT.
Actually, in many ways it's getting easier; now, you can sign an NDA
with your
I guess the next generation fiber networks will need to be installed with
tunnel boring machines and just not surface anywhere except the endpoints
:) After all, undersea cables get along just fine without convenient access
along their length...
On Mon, Apr 13, 2009 at 12:12 PM, Mikael
Hi all -
I was wondering if anyone could offer any opinions or share some
experiences about Paetec, and more specifically their MPLS, BGP, and
Network Firewall services. I just started at a new employer and they
would like get into a more robust DR strategy involving both our
locations and
Or skip the locks and fill the manholes with sand. Then provide the service
folks those big suction trucks to remove the sand for servicing :)
On Mon, Apr 13, 2009 at 12:28 PM, Andy Ringsmuth andyr...@inebraska.comwrote:
On Apr 13, 2009, at 11:12 AM, Mikael Abrahamsson wrote:
Manhole locks
On Mon, 13 Apr 2009, Dorn Hetzel wrote:
I guess the next generation fiber networks will need to be installed with
tunnel boring machines and just not surface anywhere except the endpoints
:) After all, undersea cables get along just fine without convenient
access along their length...
Boat
Church, Charles wrote:
Wouldn't some authentication system be more useful than trying to lock
all the manholes? Picture a system maybe using RFID or some other radio
system where you walk up to manhole, wave your 'wand' (like a Mobil
Speedpass), you hear a couple beeps, and you're cleared to
Could someone from Verizon contact me off list?
We are having some problems with a new turn up with 2 Gig Links, and tech
support has not been much help over the last few days in trying to get this
resolved.
Thanks,
Brian
On Mon, 13 Apr 2009, Dylan Ebner wrote:
It will be easier to get more divergence than secure all the manholes in
the country.
I still think skipping the securing of manholes and access points in favor
of active monitoring with offsite access is a better solution. You can't
keep people
On Sun, Apr 12, 2009 at 03:37:00AM +, Paul Vixie wrote:
as long as the west's ideological opponents want terror rather than panic,
and also to inflict long term losses rather than short term losses, that's
true. in this light you can hopefully understand why bollards to protect
internet
On Mon, 13 Apr 2009, chris.ra...@nokia.com wrote:
Peter Beckman [mailto:beck...@angryox.com] wrote:
Sent: Monday, April 13, 2009 11:19 AM
To: Dylan Ebner
Cc: nanog@nanog.org
Subject: RE: Fiber cut in SF area
On Mon, 13 Apr 2009, Dylan Ebner wrote:
It will be easier to get more divergence
--- beck...@angryox.com wrote:
I still think skipping the securing of manholes and access
points in favor of active monitoring with offsite access is a
better solution.
The only thing missing from your plan was a cost analysis. Cost of each,
plus operational costs, * however many of each
On Mon, 13 Apr 2009, Scott Weeks wrote:
--- beck...@angryox.com wrote:
I still think skipping the securing of manholes and access
points in favor of active monitoring with offsite access is a
better solution.
The only thing missing from your plan was a cost analysis. Cost of each,
plus
Peter Beckman [mailto:beck...@angryox.com] wrote:
Sent: Monday, April 13, 2009 11:19 AM
To: Dylan Ebner
Cc: nanog@nanog.org
Subject: RE: Fiber cut in SF area
On Mon, 13 Apr 2009, Dylan Ebner wrote:
It will be easier to get more divergence than secure all the
manholes in the country.
I still
On 4/13/2009 at 1:12 PM, Peter Beckman beck...@angryox.com wrote:
On Mon, 13 Apr 2009, Scott Weeks wrote:
--- beck...@angryox.com wrote:
I still think skipping the securing of manholes and access
points in favor of active monitoring with offsite access is a
better solution.
The only
Hello,
If there is anyone from RIM who would be willing to contact me off
list I would be most appreciative.
Thank you,
-David Prude
--
David Prude
System Administrator
Murphy Durieu
(212)618-0320
Hi Peter,
You wrote:
So, let's see. I'm pulling numbers out of my butt here,
snip
Total cost...is about $3000 per mile for equipment
snip
It could run on an overhead monorail
snip
Network it all
snip
Confickr-type domains to make sure
I get the feeling you haven't deployed or
On Mon, 13 Apr 2009, chris.ra...@nokia.com wrote:
I get the feeling you haven't deployed or operated large networks.
Nope.
You never did say what the multiplier was. How many miles or detection
nodes there were. Think millions. The number that popped into my head
when thinking of active
I sense a thread moderation occurring here shortly.
valdis.kletni...@vt.edu wrote:
On Mon, 13 Apr 2009 14:39:23 EDT, Izaac said:
Do you realize that you're putting trust in the sane action of parties
who conclude their reasoning process with destruction and murder?
And how is that different
This is not such an odd solution.
Locks are really easy to break with a screw driver and a hammer which
almost everyone has and is easy to carry, but most people aren't going
to have or carry a torch or a cutting wheel.
After 9/11 a large portion of the man holes in NYC were welded shut to
This all implies that the majority of fiber is in tunnels that can
be monitored. In my experience, almost none of it is in tunnels.
In NYC, it's usually buried in conduits directly under the street,
with no access, except through the man holes which are located about
every 500 feet.
In
--- On Mon, 4/13/09, chris.ra...@nokia.com chris.ra...@nokia.com wrote:
From: Peter Beckman
Subject: RE: Fiber cut in SF area
Total cost...is about $3000 per mile for
equipment
I get the feeling you haven't deployed or operated large
networks. You never did say what the multiplier
On 14/04/2009, at 11:35 AM, David Barak wrote:
In addition, as has been noted, this system wouldn't PREVENT a
failure, it would just give you some warning that a failure may be
coming, probably by a matter of minutes.
Some statistics about the effectiveness of car alarms and unmonitored
But that would not be NEBS Complient -PHB
I have thought of air horns in my colo cage when a tech of mine messes up.
--Original Message--
From: Nathan Ward
To: nanog list
Subject: Re: Fiber cut in SF area
Sent: Apr 13, 2009 4:55 PM
On 14/04/2009, at 11:35 AM, David Barak wrote:
In
Nathan Ward wrote:
Whack a $5 12v horn on it, and my bet is that it'd become a deterrent
pretty quickly.
Presumes the perp isn't familiar with the hole, and it's security
measures. In this case, I doubt that either is the case. Pop in, snip
the wires on the horn, and do what you do.
Most
There are three solutions to the problem;
A: Put a armed soldier every 150ft on the fiber path.
B: Make the infrstructure so redundant that cutting things
just makes you tired, but nothing hapens.
C: Do nothing.
As the society becomes more and more
Though I think networked environmental monitoring has its merits, it's
clear the technology is unproven in monitoring fiber tunnels, and my
inexperience in running and managing such tunnels makes this thread
bordering on off-topic.
I'm happy to continue conversations via email, but this will be
Presumes the perp isn't familiar with the hole, and it's security measures.
In this case, I doubt that either is the case. Pop in, snip the wires on the
horn, and do what you do.
Better they cut the fiber instead of Oklahoma Citying the central office.
But you are ignoring the cost of designing, procuring, installing,
monitoring, maintaining such a solution for the THOUSANDS of man holes
and hand holes in even a small fiber network.
The reality is, the types of outages that these things would protect
against (intentional damage to the
On 4/13/09, George William Herbert gherb...@retro.com wrote:
Matthew Petach writes:
protected rings are a technology of the past. Don't count on your
vendor to provide redundancy for you. Get two unprotected runs
for half the cost each, from two different providers, and verify the
path
On Apr 13, 2009, at 8:31 PM, Peter Lothberg wrote:
There are three solutions to the problem;
A: Put a armed soldier every 150ft on the fiber path.
B: Make the infrstructure so redundant that cutting things
just makes you tired, but nothing hapens.
C: Do
There are three solutions to the problem;
A: Put a armed soldier every 150ft on the fiber path.
B: Make the infrstructure so redundant that cutting things
just makes you tired, but nothing hapens.
C: Do nothing.
As the society becomes more and more
Matthew Petach wrote:
George William Herbert gherb...@retro.com wrote:
Matthew Petach writes:
protected rings are a technology of the past. Don't count on your
vendor to provide redundancy for you. Get two unprotected runs
for half the cost each, from two different providers, and
On Tue, Apr 14, 2009 at 03:41:25AM +0200, Peter Lothberg wrote:
There are three solutions to the problem;
A: Put a armed soldier every 150ft on the fiber path.
B: Make the infrstructure so redundant that cutting things
just makes you tired, but nothing hapens.
C:
On 4/13/09, George William Herbert gherb...@retro.com wrote:
Matthew Petach wrote:
George William Herbert gherb...@retro.com wrote:
Matthew Petach writes:
[much material snipped in the interests of saving precious electron
resources...]
This was all in one geographical area.
Rofl Matt,
I was recently laid off from my job for 'economic' reasons, what you say is
deadly accurate.
Bravo! :)
On Mon, Apr 13, 2009 at 7:01 PM, Matthew Petach mpet...@netflight.comwrote:
On 4/13/09, George William Herbert gherb...@retro.com wrote:
Matthew Petach wrote:
George William
On Tue, Apr 14, 2009 at 03:41:25AM +0200, Peter Lothberg wrote:
There are three solutions to the problem;
A: Put a armed soldier every 150ft on the fiber path.
B: Make the infrstructure so redundant that cutting things
just makes you tired, but
telmn...@757.org wrote:
Presumes the perp isn't familiar with the hole, and it's security
measures. In this case, I doubt that either is the case. Pop in, snip
the wires on the horn, and do what you do.
Better they cut the fiber instead of Oklahoma Citying the central office.
If you're
On Apr 13, 2009, at 8:40 PM, telmn...@757.org wrote:
Better they cut the fiber instead of Oklahoma Citying the central
office.
I'm not sure that the someone will alway s find the weakest link
argument can be summed up any better than this.
If you don't believe it, you all need to spend
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