Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

valdis.kletni...@vt.edu writes: > Does anybody actually *have* a functional 7 track drive? Maybe the people running have one. (If you ever come to Munich, try to visit this museum.) Jens -- -

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

> A nominating committee's essential function is to ensure that a > minimum number of qualified, vetted individuals are placed on the > slate of candidates for election. it should ensure that folk who are not *technically* qualified, e.g. not members, not human people, ... are not on the slate. p

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

On Sep 23, 2011, at 1:40 AM, Jim Duncan wrote: > With my parliamentarian hat on: > A nominating committee's essential function is to ensure that a minimum > number of qualified, vetted individuals are placed on the slate of candidates > for election. it should never be a gating function; it is an

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

On Sep 23, 2011, at 12:57 AM, Paul Vixie wrote: > On Thu, 22 Sep 2011 21:05:51 -0500 > Benson Schliesser wrote: > >> As for my use of "existing establishment": I'm of the impression >> that a relatively small group of individuals drive ARIN, that most >> ARIN members don't actively participate.

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

> > The NomCom acts as a filter, of sorts. It chooses the candidates that the > membership will see. The fact that the NomCom is so closely coupled with the > existing leadership has an unfortunate appearance that suggests a bias. I'm > unable to say whether the bias exists, is recognized, a

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

iper.net Mobile: +1 919 608 0748 PGP key fingerprint: E09E EA55 DA28 1399 75EB D6A2 7092 9A9C 6DC3 1821 - Original Message - From: Paul Vixie [mailto:vi...@isc.org] Sent: Friday, September 23, 2011 12:57 AM To: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advic

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

On Thu, 22 Sep 2011 21:05:51 -0500 Benson Schliesser wrote: > Earlier this year I received the following from ARIN member > services: "This year the NomCom charter was changed by the Board. > In the past the 3 Member volunteers were selected at random. This > year the 3 volunteers will be chose

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

Hi, Paul. On Sep 22, 2011, at 8:03 PM, Paul Vixie wrote: >> My understanding is that the NomCom consists of 7 people. Of those, 2 >> come from the board and 2 come from the AC. Together, those 4 members of >> the existing establishment choose the remaining 3 NomCom members. In the >> past, there

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

Benson Schliesser writes: > Hi, Paul. sorry for the delay. i'll include the entirety of this short thread. >>> For what it's worth, I agree that ARIN has a pretty good governance >>> structure. (With the exception of NomCom this year, which is shamefully >>> unbalanced.) ... >> >> as the chai

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network -- ENOUGH ALREADY!

My apologies to all. I was hoping the conversation would be of an operational nature. I deleted the vast majority of messages in the thread as they weren't relevant. If anyone wants I can post smaller scope subject threads. Or a summary of the operationally relevant bits in the thread. Br

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

- Original Message - > From: "Chris Adams" > What about if you have two LECs at your facility, but the two circuits > share a common path elsewhere (outside of your knowledge)? p=1.0, *even* if you're paying for guaranteed physical diversity. Cheers, -- jra -- Jay R. Ashworth

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

Randy is right that ARIN has missed a step here. It is unfortunate that there is no tool in existence that would test conformance of a whois server, and with hindsight, it would have been a good idea for ARIN to sponsor such a tool on one of the open source repo sites like github or googlecode. I

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

On Tue, Sep 20, 2011 at 5:19 PM, Brett Frankenberger wrote: > On Tue, Sep 20, 2011 at 04:13:57PM -0400, Dorn Hetzel wrote: > > > > "full time connection to two or more providers" should be satisfied when > the > > network involved has (or has contracted for and will have) two or more > > connectio

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

On Sep 20, 2011, at 2:02 PM, Jon Lewis wrote: > On Tue, 20 Sep 2011, Chris Adams wrote: > >> Devil's advocate: if you have links to two carriers, but they are >> delivered via the same LEC on the same fiber, are you multihomed? What >> about if you have two LECs at your facility, but the two ci

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

>> >> Ok, I would propose something like: > > "full time connection to two or more providers" should be satisfied when the > network involved has (or has contracted for and will have) two or more > connections that are diverse from each other at ANY point in their path > between the end network l

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network -- ENOUGH ALREADY!

Thank you! 112 Emails on this subject, I am sick of it. On Sep 20, 2011, at 3:25 PM, Bill P wrote: > This has deviated so far from a useful technical discussion, it isn't even > amusing anymore. > > From http://www.nanog.org/mailinglist/ > > Our pre-posting guide for messages to the NANOG e-ma

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network -- ENOUGH ALREADY!

This has deviated so far from a useful technical discussion, it isn't even amusing anymore. From http://www.nanog.org/mailinglist/ Our pre-posting guide for messages to the NANOG e-mail list: Does my email have operational/technical content? ANSWER: NO. Would I be interested in readi

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

On Tue, Sep 20, 2011 at 04:13:57PM -0400, Dorn Hetzel wrote: > > "full time connection to two or more providers" should be satisfied when the > network involved has (or has contracted for and will have) two or more > connections that are diverse from each other at ANY point in their path > between

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

On 9/20/11 1:05 PM, Patrick W. Gilmore wrote: However, I believe the spirit of the NRPM is clear. Two circuits in the same conduit would qualify, one circuit with two BGP sessions does not. Totally disagree. If I have a metro ethernet circuit and can see both my transit providers over the sam

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

On Tue, 20 Sep 2011 16:13:57 EDT, Dorn Hetzel said: > "full time connection to two or more providers" should be satisfied when the > network involved has (or has contracted for and will have) two or more > connections that are diverse from each other at ANY point in their path > between the end net

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

On Tue, 20 Sep 2011, Chris Adams wrote: Devil's advocate: if you have links to two carriers, but they are delivered via the same LEC on the same fiber, are you multihomed? What about if you have two LECs at your facility, but the two circuits share a common path elsewhere (outside of your knowl

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

On Tue, Sep 20, 2011 at 4:05 PM, Patrick W. Gilmore wrote: > On Sep 20, 2011, at 3:18 PM, Chris Adams wrote: > > Once upon a time, Patrick W. Gilmore said: > >> In the way that you are apparently incapable of reading what was > written. Jon very clearly states that if the GRE tunnel goes over t

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

On Sep 20, 2011, at 3:18 PM, Chris Adams wrote: > Once upon a time, Patrick W. Gilmore said: >> In the way that you are apparently incapable of reading what was written. >> Jon very clearly states that if the GRE tunnel goes over the same physical >> infrastructure, it is not multihoming. The

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

On 9/20/11 12:24 PM, Dorn Hetzel wrote: > On Sep 20, 2011 3:21 PM, "Owen DeLong" wrote: >> >>> >>> If you open the door to that sort of interpretation, then every org with > a T1 and a backup dial-up connection can claim to be "multihomed". >>> >> You say that like it's a bad thing. >> >>> In eith

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

On Sep 20, 2011 3:21 PM, "Owen DeLong" wrote: > > > > > If you open the door to that sort of interpretation, then every org with a T1 and a backup dial-up connection can claim to be "multihomed". > > > You say that like it's a bad thing. > > > In either of these cases, it's not enough to just have

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

> > If you open the door to that sort of interpretation, then every org with a T1 > and a backup dial-up connection can claim to be "multihomed". > You say that like it's a bad thing. > In either of these cases, it's not enough to just have the connection. The > ARIN NRPM definition of Multiho

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

Once upon a time, Patrick W. Gilmore said: > In the way that you are apparently incapable of reading what was written. > Jon very clearly states that if the GRE tunnel goes over the same physical > infrastructure, it is not multihoming. Then you go on to explain how you > have two physical li

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

On Sep 20, 2011, at 2:54 PM, Owen DeLong wrote: > Why would you say that a GRE or other tunnel is not full-time connectivity? I > have full-time GRE tunnels to two ISPs and they do actually constitute > multihoming under the ARIN interpretation of NRPM 2.7. > >> i.e. if you have a leased line co

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

On Sep 20, 2011, at 5:01 AM, Jon Lewis wrote: > On Mon, 19 Sep 2011, Matthew Kaufman wrote: > >> On 9/19/2011 6:02 PM, Jon Lewis wrote: >>> On Sun, 18 Sep 2011, Frank Bulk wrote: I should have made myself more clear -- the policy amendment would make clear that multihoming requires onl

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

On September 20, 2011 at 02:00 he...@aegisinfosys.com (Henry Yen) wrote: > > A few (dozen) years ago, I was treated to a interesting demonstration where > a coworker poured an oily fluid containing tiny metallic flakes on a patch > of tape. The "bits" on the tape could be clearly seen by the

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

I plan to announce my ASN out of 3 physically diverse hops over 100mbps or gige. I believe that qualifies as multihoming under pretty much all definitions? On that note, is anyone familiar with peering fabrics in 60 Hudson and 600 West 7th (or peering fabrics that are fiber close in those loca

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

Hi, Paul. On Sep 20, 2011, at 11:43, Paul Vixie wrote: > Benson Schliesser writes: > >> For what it's worth, I agree that ARIN has a pretty good governance >> structure. (With the exception of NomCom this year, which is shamefully >> unbalanced.) ... > > as the chairman of the 2011 ARIN NomCo

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

On Tue, Sep 20, 2011 at 12:13 PM, Jon Lewis wrote: > Dorn, you have some interesting mail habits. Your message was sent > directly to me (without list). My reply to that message was to you (without > the list). Now you're replying to that reply and including the list again. > That's generally

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

Benson Schliesser writes: > For what it's worth, I agree that ARIN has a pretty good governance > structure. (With the exception of NomCom this year, which is shamefully > unbalanced.) ... as the chairman of the 2011 ARIN NomCom, i hope you'll explain further, either publically here, or privatel

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

On Tue, Sep 20, 2011 at 10:22 AM, Jon Lewis wrote: > On Tue, 20 Sep 2011, Dorn Hetzel wrote: > > If what you have is LEC frame relay service over which you have PVCs to >> two >> providers of IP transit service, then, IMO, you are multihomed. Are you >> protected against every single failure mo

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

Once upon a time, Henry Yen said: > A few (dozen) years ago, I was treated to a interesting demonstration where > a coworker poured an oily fluid containing tiny metallic flakes on a patch > of tape. The "bits" on the tape could be clearly seen by the naked eye, > and could be decoded (ever so sl

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

On Mon, 19 Sep 2011, Matthew Kaufman wrote: On 9/19/2011 6:02 PM, Jon Lewis wrote: On Sun, 18 Sep 2011, Frank Bulk wrote: I should have made myself more clear -- the policy amendment would make clear that multihoming requires only one facilities-based connection and that the other connections

RE: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

> From: valdis.kletni...@vt.edu [mailto:valdis.kletni...@vt.edu] > Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2011 12:15 AM > > On Tue, 20 Sep 2011 05:32:04 +0200, Randy Bush said: > > > you left out one connection via a chevy full of hollerith cards and > the > > second a canoe full of 7 track tape in water

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

> From: valdis.kletni...@vt.edu > Subject: Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a > nationwide network > Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2011 00:14:59 -0400 > > > Does anybody actually *have* a functional 7 track drive? I _think_ there's a guy in OZ

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

Randy Bush wrote: http://ibm-1401.info/ A few (dozen) years ago, I was treated to a interesting demonstration where a coworker poured an oily fluid containing tiny metallic flakes on a patch of tape. The "bits" on the tape could be clearly seen by the naked eye, and could be decoded (ever so

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

> Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2011 00:07:06 -0400 (EDT) > From: Jay Ashworth > Subject: Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a > nationwide network > > > From: "Randy Bush" > > > you left out one connection via a chevy full of hollerit

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

On Tue, Sep 20, 2011 at 12:14:59AM -0400, valdis.kletni...@vt.edu wrote: > On Tue, 20 Sep 2011 05:32:04 +0200, Randy Bush said: > > > you left out one connection via a chevy full of hollerith cards and the > > second a canoe full of 7 track tape in waterproof containers. > > Does anybody actually

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

>>http://ibm-1401.info/ > A few (dozen) years ago, I was treated to a interesting demonstration > where a coworker poured an oily fluid containing tiny metallic flakes > on a patch of tape. The "bits" on the tape could be clearly seen by > the naked eye, and could be decoded (ever so slowly!)

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

On Tue, Sep 20, 2011 at 01:22:43AM -0400, Barton F Bruce wrote: > >Does anybody actually *have* a functional 7 track drive? > > The folks restoring at least one IBM 1401 probably have several. > >http://ibm-1401.info/ A few (dozen) years ago, I was treated to a interesting demonstration wher

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

*This message was transferred with a trial version of CommuniGate(r) Pro* >Does anybody actually *have* a functional 7 track drive? The folks restoring at least one IBM 1401 probably have several. http://ibm-1401.info/ Other than replacing a lot of older tab shop hardware, a primary functi

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

given that as 729 maxes out at 800cpi there are probably slightly kinky ways to attack the problem, e.g. someone doing it with disk packs. http://chrisfenton.com/cray-1-digital-archeology/ there's still plenty of equipment that can wrap 1/2" tape around a spindle. On 9/19/11 21:14 , valdis.kletn

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

On Tue, 20 Sep 2011 05:32:04 +0200, Randy Bush said: > you left out one connection via a chevy full of hollerith cards and the > second a canoe full of 7 track tape in waterproof containers. Does anybody actually *have* a functional 7 track drive? I remember seeing a story on PBS (may have been

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

On 09/19/2011 10:40 PM, Matthew Kaufman wrote: > On 9/16/2011 12:58 PM, Leigh Porter wrote: >> >> >> I wonder what would happen if a new ARIN member requested an IPv4 >> block of say a /16 for a new business? Or even a smaller block. I >> don't know what the current ARIN rules are but RIPE will cur

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

- Original Message - > From: "Randy Bush" > you left out one connection via a chevy full of hollerith cards and > the second a canoe full of 7 track tape in waterproof containers. That's "a station wagon full of magtape". Henry would be disappointed. Cheers, -- jra * See also http://ww

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

On 9/18/2011 7:27 PM, Antonio Querubin wrote: On Sun, 18 Sep 2011, Frank Bulk wrote: I understand that tunneling meets the letter of the ARIN policy, but I'll make the bold assumption that wasn't the spirit of the policy when it was written. Maybe the policy needs to be amended to clarify th

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

On 9/16/2011 12:58 PM, Leigh Porter wrote: I wonder what would happen if a new ARIN member requested an IPv4 block of say a /16 for a new business? Or even a smaller block. I don't know what the current ARIN rules are but RIPE will currently give out six months worth of space. Now, in six mo

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

On 9/19/2011 8:32 PM, Randy Bush wrote: you left out one connection via a chevy full of hollerith cards and the second a canoe full of 7 track tape in waterproof containers. They certainly have different loss characteristics, even if you don't get unique routing policy out of it. Matthew Kau

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

> 1) One IP connection via a T-1. Second IP connection via GRE tunnel > carried on first. > > 2) One IP connection via a T-1 that doesn't have transit, only peering > with providers B and C. IP connections via two GRE tunnels to providers > B and C. > > 3) One IP connection via MPLS over T-1.

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

On 9/19/2011 6:02 PM, Jon Lewis wrote: On Sun, 18 Sep 2011, Frank Bulk wrote: I should have made myself more clear -- the policy amendment would make clear that multihoming requires only one facilities-based connection and that the other connections could be fulfilled via tunnels. This may be

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

On 9/19/2011 6:02 PM, Jon Lewis wrote: On Sun, 18 Sep 2011, Frank Bulk wrote: I should have made myself more clear -- the policy amendment would make clear that multihoming requires only one facilities-based connection and that the other connections could be fulfilled via tunnels. This may be

RE: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

On Sun, 18 Sep 2011, Frank Bulk wrote: I should have made myself more clear -- the policy amendment would make clear that multihoming requires only one facilities-based connection and that the other connections could be fulfilled via tunnels. This may be heresy for some. That's not multihomin

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

On 09/18/11 19:41, Frank Bulk wrote: I should have made myself more clear -- the policy amendment would make clear that multihoming requires only one facilities-based connection and that the other connections could be fulfilled via tunnels. This may be heresy for some. I don't think the policy

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

On Sep 19, 2011, at 3:34 AM, Randy Bush wrote: >> All transfer requests which meet the policies get approved and >> updated in the registry. ARIN does turn down transfer requests >> which don't meet policy, and this potential is often understood >> and covered in proposed sale documents for IP

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

On Sun, 18 Sep 2011 13:17:57 PDT, Cameron Byrne said: > Call me optimistic but ipv6 does not have these issues... > > For anyone making STRATEGIC choices about ipv4 investments... beware of > sharks in these waters, not just the cgn pains For many of us (especiially the ones who have ipv6 d

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

> All transfer requests which meet the policies get approved and > updated in the registry. ARIN does turn down transfer requests > which don't meet policy, and this potential is often understood > and covered in proposed sale documents for IP address blocks. would you be willing to describe wh

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

On Sep 18, 2011, at 6:51 PM, Charles N Wyble wrote: > On 09/18/2011 08:25 PM, Frank Bulk wrote: >> I understand that tunneling meets the letter of the ARIN policy, but I'll >> make the bold assumption that wasn't the spirit of the policy when it was >> written. Maybe the policy needs to be ame

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

On Sep 19, 2011, at 12:57 AM, Benson Schliesser wrote: >> However, your statement that I only welcome change funneled through >> "ARIN-managed channels" is incorrect, as I have made it quite plain >> on multiple occasions that the structure of the Internet number >> registry system itself is no

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

To: frnk...@iname.com; 'Charles N Wyble'; nanog@nanog.org > Subject: RE: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a > nationwide network > >> -Original Message- >> From: Frank Bulk [mailto:frnk...@iname.com] >> Sent: 18 September 20

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

On Sep 18, 2011, at 21:20, John Curran wrote: > On Sep 18, 2011, at 2:53 PM, Benson Schliesser wrote: >> >> In John's case (on behalf of ARIN as is befitting his role) he welcomes >> change as long as it's funneled through the ARIN-managed channels. In other >> words, change is welcome as l

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

On Sun, Sep 18, 2011 at 8:25 PM, Frank Bulk wrote: > I understand that tunneling meets the letter of the ARIN policy, but I'll > make the bold assumption that wasn't the spirit of the policy when it was > written.  Maybe the policy needs to be amended to clarify that. > ARIN is not in a positio

RE: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

[mailto:t...@lavanauts.org] Sent: Sunday, September 18, 2011 9:27 PM To: Frank Bulk Cc: 'Leigh Porter'; 'Charles N Wyble'; nanog@nanog.org Subject: RE: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network On Sun, 18 Sep 2011, Frank Bulk wrote: > I un

RE: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

On Sun, 18 Sep 2011, Frank Bulk wrote: I understand that tunneling meets the letter of the ARIN policy, but I'll make the bold assumption that wasn't the spirit of the policy when it was written. Maybe the policy needs to be amended to clarify that. I think this is a bad idea and I suspect w

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

On 09/18/2011 08:25 PM, Frank Bulk wrote: > I understand that tunneling meets the letter of the ARIN policy, but I'll > make the bold assumption that wasn't the spirit of the policy when it was > written. Maybe the policy needs to be amended to clarify that. Well that would be a shame in my opi

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

On Sep 18, 2011, at 3:36 PM, Benson Schliesser wrote: > On Sep 18, 2011, at 3:09 PM, Randy Bush wrote: >> why the heck should i have to? the iana and the frelling rirs' one >> principal task is to register. if they do not register transfers then >> what are we all smoking? > > I don't disagree..

RE: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

:leigh.por...@ukbroadband.com] Sent: Sunday, September 18, 2011 6:37 PM To: frnk...@iname.com; 'Charles N Wyble'; nanog@nanog.org Subject: RE: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network > -Original Message- > From: Frank Bulk [mailto:frn

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

On Sep 18, 2011, at 2:53 PM, Benson Schliesser wrote: > > In John's case (on behalf of ARIN as is befitting his role) he welcomes > change as long as it's funneled through the ARIN-managed channels. In other > words, change is welcome as long as it reinforces ARIN's role as facilitator. > B

RE: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

> -Original Message- > From: Frank Bulk [mailto:frnk...@iname.com] > Sent: 18 September 2011 23:14 > To: 'Charles N Wyble'; nanog@nanog.org > Subject: RE: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on > building a nationwide network > > Where I

RE: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

ment.com] Sent: Sunday, September 18, 2011 12:58 AM To: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network On 09/17/2011 06:52 PM, Randy Carpenter wrote: >>> I have a small ISP customer who is not multi-homed, and is using >&

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

On 9/18/11 1:08 PM, Benson Schliesser wrote: > > On Sep 18, 2011, at 15:51, Randy Bush wrote: > >>> I'm told of others that have bought legacy IPv4 prefixes with no >>> intention of updating whois at this time - no desire to enter into a >>> relationship with ARIN and be subjected to existing "p

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

On Sep 18, 2011 1:08 PM, "Benson Schliesser" wrote: > > > On Sep 18, 2011, at 15:51, Randy Bush wrote: > > >> I'm told of others that have bought legacy IPv4 prefixes with no > >> intention of updating whois at this time - no desire to enter into a > >> relationship with ARIN and be subjected to

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

On Sep 18, 2011, at 15:51, Randy Bush wrote: >> I'm told of others that have bought legacy IPv4 prefixes with no >> intention of updating whois at this time - no desire to enter into a >> relationship with ARIN and be subjected to existing "policy", for >> instance. > > so your point is that yo

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

> I'm told of others that have bought legacy IPv4 prefixes with no > intention of updating whois at this time - no desire to enter into a > relationship with ARIN and be subjected to existing "policy", for > instance. so your point is that your friends at depository.com will be attractive to ip ad

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

On Sep 18, 2011, at 3:09 PM, Randy Bush wrote: >> IPv4 trading is already taking place, what are you (as operators) >> planning to do when asked to route prefixes that have been >> bought/sold? Will you accept alternative (whois) registry sources? > > why the heck should i have to? the iana an

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

> IPv4 trading is already taking place, what are you (as operators) > planning to do when asked to route prefixes that have been > bought/sold? Will you accept alternative (whois) registry sources? why the heck should i have to? the iana and the frelling rirs' one principal task is to register.

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

On Sep 18, 2011, at 10:49 AM, Randy Bush wrote: > i just think that we, as a culture, have let things get wy out of > whack. john is paid to defend the status grow. I like that: "status grow". It seems pretty clear to me that, as humans, we're not very good at organizational contraction.

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

one to post overly aggressive defensive messages on nanog >>> I am not convinced that Mr. Bush is best placed to comment on this >>> particular issue. >> you seem to have a problem differentiating defense from offense. i >> recommend you not play chess. :) > Randy is perfectly right in expre

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

On Sep 18, 2011, at 10:24 AM, Randy Bush wrote: > >>> one to post overly aggressive defensive messages on nanog >> I am not convinced that Mr. Bush is best placed to comment on this >> particular issue. > > you seem to have a problem differentiating defense from offense. i > recommend you not pl

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

>> one to post overly aggressive defensive messages on nanog > I am not convinced that Mr. Bush is best placed to comment on this > particular issue. you seem to have a problem differentiating defense from offense. i recommend you not play chess. :) randy

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

On Saturday 17 Sep 2011 22:37:46 Randy Bush wrote: > one to post overly aggressive defensive messages on nanog I am not convinced that Mr. Bush is best placed to comment on this particular issue. -- The only thing worse than e-mail disclaimers...is people who send e-mail to lists complaining a

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

On 09/17/2011 06:52 PM, Randy Carpenter wrote: >>> I have a small ISP customer who is not multi-homed, and is using >>> about a /21 and a half of space, and is expanding. Their upstream >>> is refusing to give them more space, so they wanted to get their >>> own, and give back the space to the upst

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

On Sep 17, 2011, at 3:01 AM, Charles N Wyble wrote: > One aspect of my network, will be operational transparency. So as much as > possible will be viewable in real time. This includes v4/v6 traffic > statistics. These books are required reading, IMHO:

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

- Original Message - > From: "Randy Carpenter" > I have a small ISP customer who is not multi-homed, and is using about > a /21 and a half of space, and is expanding. Their upstream is > refusing to give them more space, so they wanted to get their own, and > give back the space to the up

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

> > I have a small ISP customer who is not multi-homed, and is using > > about a /21 and a half of space, and is expanding. Their upstream > > is refusing to give them more space, so they wanted to get their > > own, and give back the space to the upstream, with the possible > > exception of a sma

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

>>> From: Randy Bush >>> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] NAT444 rumors (was Re: Looking for an IPv6 >>> naysayer...) >>> Date: February 21, 2011 9:00:50 PM EST >>> To: Dan Wing >>> Cc: 'NANOG list' , 'ARIN-PPML List' >>> > http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-donley-nat444-impacts-01 Tha

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

>> From: Randy Bush >> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] NAT444 rumors (was Re: Looking for an IPv6 >> naysayer...) >> Date: February 21, 2011 9:00:50 PM EST >> To: Dan Wing >> Cc: 'NANOG list' , 'ARIN-PPML List' >> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-donley-nat444-impacts-01 >>> That docume

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

On Sep 17, 2011, at 5:19 PM, Randy Bush wrote: >>> Strange... You seem to overcome it well enough to join in the >>> discussion on PPML, but not to actual propose changes to policy. >> i believe you are mistaken. i am not knowingly a subscriber to ppml, >> and am not, to the best of my knowledge

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

>> rick adams was right. this could be done very minimally with some >> software and maybe six to ten folk to back it up. gedanken experiment. instead of frelling up whois, printing comic books, and playing weenie regulators, design and describe an rir with a sign on the door which says "inter

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

On Sep 17, 2011, at 5:23 PM, Randy Bush wrote: >> Randy - If you wish to propose an alternative which accomplishes the >> mission in a different manner, feel free to do so. The community has >> every opportunity and right to accomplish unique Internet number >> administration as it sees fit. > > r

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

>>> One more reason we can all do ourselves a favor by moving to ipv6, >>> remove the number scarcity issue and associated baggage of begging for >>> numbers >> silly hope. we created monopoly organizations. this kind of thing is >> self-perpetuating. > Randy - If you wish to propose an alternati

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

>> Strange... You seem to overcome it well enough to join in the >> discussion on PPML, but not to actual propose changes to policy. > i believe you are mistaken. i am not knowingly a subscriber to ppml, > and am not, to the best of my knowledge, participating in any > discussion(s) there. a sea

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

On Sep 17, 2011, at 5:05 PM, Randy Bush wrote: >> One more reason we can all do ourselves a favor by moving to ipv6, >> remove the number scarcity issue and associated baggage of begging for >> numbers > > silly hope. we created monopoly organizations. this kind of thing is > self-perpetuating.

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

>>> I have absolutely no doubt that there are sufficient folks >>> participating in NANOG to get nearly any policy desired >>> through the ARIN policy process. To the extent that folks >>> don't care to learn the current policies and participate in >>> the policy development process, they

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

On Sep 17, 2011, at 5:06 PM, Randy Bush wrote: >> I have absolutely no doubt that there are sufficient folks >> participating in NANOG to get nearly any policy desired >> through the ARIN policy process. To the extent that folks >> don't care to learn the current policies and participate in

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

> I have absolutely no doubt that there are sufficient folks > participating in NANOG to get nearly any policy desired > through the ARIN policy process. To the extent that folks > don't care to learn the current policies and participate in > the policy development process, they end u

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

> One more reason we can all do ourselves a favor by moving to ipv6, > remove the number scarcity issue and associated baggage of begging for > numbers silly hope. we created monopoly organizations. this kind of thing is self-perpetuating. randy

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