wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

Wow this turned into a very long post On 09/16/2011 01:10 PM, hass...@hushmail.com wrote: No one replied with any useful information. I guess no one wants competition on this list? Pretty poor tactic. On Sat, 10 Sep 2011 21:55:01 -0400 hass...@hushmail.com wrote: Mr hass...@husmail.com

RE: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

> -Original Message- > From: Charles N Wyble [mailto:char...@knownelement.com] > Sent: 16 September 2011 20:47 > To: nanog@nanog.org > Subject: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building > a nationwide network > > > > Wow thi

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

On 09/16/2011 02:58 PM, Leigh Porter wrote: -Original Message- From: Charles N Wyble [mailto:char...@knownelement.com] Sent: 16 September 2011 20:47 To: nanog@nanog.org Subject: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network Wow this turned into a

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

On Fri, Sep 16, 2011 at 07:58:30PM +, Leigh Porter wrote: > > I wonder what would happen if a new ARIN member requested an IPv4 block of > say a /16 for a new business? Or even a smaller block. I don't know what the > current ARIN rules are but RIPE will currently give out six months worth o

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

> > > I wonder what would happen if a new ARIN member requested an IPv4 > block of say a /16 for a new business? Or even a smaller block. I > don't know what the current ARIN rules are but RIPE will currently > give out six months worth of space. Now, in six months, I don't > expect there to be a

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

On 09/16/2011 03:09 PM, Randy Carpenter wrote: As an ISP, ARIN will not give you any space if you are new. You have to already have an equivalent amount of space from another provider. I think it is really stupid, and encourages wasting IP space, but that is what the current policy is. Ah y

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

> As an ISP, ARIN will not give you any space if you are new. You have > to already have an equivalent amount of space from another provider. does arin *really* still have that amazing barrier to market entry? arin claims to be a shining example of industry self-governance. to me, this barrier t

RE: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

> > As an ISP, ARIN will not give you any space if you are new. You have > > to already have an equivalent amount of space from another provider. > > does arin *really* still have that amazing barrier to market entry? Yes. If you want PI space, you have to start off with PA space, utilize it, a

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

On Fri, Sep 16, 2011 at 08:50:56PM +, Nathan Eisenberg wrote: > > > As an ISP, ARIN will not give you any space if you are new. You have > > > to already have an equivalent amount of space from another provider. > > > > does arin *really* still have that amazing barrier to market entry? > > Y

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

On Fri, 16 Sep 2011, Randy Carpenter wrote: I wonder what would happen if a new ARIN member requested an IPv4 block of say a /16 for a new business? Or even a smaller block. I don't know what the current ARIN rules are but RIPE will currently give out six months worth of space. Now, in six month

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

On 09/16/2011 04:34 PM, Justin M. Streiner wrote: > On Fri, 16 Sep 2011, Randy Carpenter wrote: > > > If you go to ARIN, day one, and ask for address space, they have no > way of determining if your request is justified, beyond whatever > pie-in-the-sky guesses and growth projections you give them.

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

>> As an ISP, ARIN will not give you any space if you are new. You have to >> already have an equivalent amount of space from another provider. I >> think it is really stupid, and encourages wasting IP space, but that is >> what the current policy is. > > If you go to ARIN, day one, and ask for

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

On Fri, 16 Sep 2011, Randy Bush wrote: If you go to ARIN, day one, and ask for address space, they have no way of determining if your request is justified, beyond whatever pie-in-the-sky guesses and growth projections you give them. why is this not a problem in any other region? I don't have

RE: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

> -Original Message- > From: Randy Bush [mailto:ra...@psg.com] > Sent: 16 September 2011 21:38 > To: Randy Carpenter > Cc: North American Network Operators' Group > Subject: Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on > building a nationwide netw

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

> People have been bleating about routing tables sizes for years and > everything has been fine. You could argue that the bleating has helped > keep the size down of course, perhaps it has. guy walks into a psychiatrist's office waving a newspaper. shrink asks "why are you waving that newspaper?"

RE: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

> When I still worked in the ISP world, the startup I worked for started off > with > PA space, and then grew into PI space, and handed the PA space back to > their upstreams as it was vacated. I had no problems getting subsequent PI > blocks because our documentation was in order. The documenta

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

> 'Dear dedicated server customer, we're taking away your IPs, please don't > be angry with us even though it will cost you untold hours of work to hunt > down all the tiny implications of renumbering. Never mind the lost business > it might cause if you miss something.' > > 'Dear internet access

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

On 9/16/11 13:50 , Nathan Eisenberg wrote: >>> As an ISP, ARIN will not give you any space if you are new. You >>> have to already have an equivalent amount of space from another >>> provider. >> >> does arin *really* still have that amazing barrier to market >> entry? > > Yes. If you want PI sp

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

On Sat, Sep 17, 2011 at 12:06, Joel jaeggli wrote: > . > > The ARIN community is easily it's own worst enemy. > > Not to mention the difficulty of actually getting a provider to let you announce their PA IP space to other providers if you already are / want multihoming. I just got turned down by

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

As an ISP, ARIN will not give you any space if you are new. You have to already have an equivalent amount of space from another provider. >>> does arin *really* still have that amazing barrier to market >>> entry? >> Yes. If you want PI space, you have to start off with PA space, >>

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

On Sep 17, 2011 10:41 AM, "Randy Bush" wrote: > > As an ISP, ARIN will not give you any space if you are new. You > have to already have an equivalent amount of space from another > provider. > >>> does arin *really* still have that amazing barrier to market > >>> entry? > >> Yes.

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

All of the speculation and comment on this thread has been something to watch, but, it's not actually all that accurate. https://www.arin.net/policy/nrpm.html#four2 NRPM 4.2 provides several ways in which an ISP can qualify for space As has been mentioned in this thread, efficiently using a PA a

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

On Sep 17, 2011, at 1:41 PM, Randy Bush wrote: >>> Yes. If you want PI space, you have to start off with PA space, >>> utilize it, and then apply for PI space and an AS #, with contracts >>> demonstrating your intention to multihome. Then, you have to >>> *migrate* off the PA space and surrender

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

- Original Message - > All of the speculation and comment on this thread has been something > to watch, but, it's not actually all that accurate. > > https://www.arin.net/policy/nrpm.html#four2 > > NRPM 4.2 provides several ways in which an ISP can qualify for space > > As has been ment

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

On Sep 16, 2011, at 3:45 PM, Charles N Wyble wrote: > > 2) Obtain ipv6 space from ARIN (inquired about getting space and ran into > some issues. need to speak with my co founder and get details. evidently > getting brand new v6 space for a brand new network is fairly difficult. for > now may ju

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

On Sep 17, 2011, at 2:13 PM, Randy Carpenter wrote: > I have a small ISP customer who is not multi-homed, and is using about a /21 > and a half of space, and is expanding. Their upstream is refusing to give > them more space, so they wanted to get their own, and give back the space to > the ups

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

On Sep 17, 2011, at 11:19 AM, John Curran wrote: > On Sep 16, 2011, at 3:45 PM, Charles N Wyble wrote: >> >> 2) Obtain ipv6 space from ARIN (inquired about getting space and ran into >> some issues. need to speak with my co founder and get details. evidently >> getting brand new v6 space for a

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

On Sep 17, 2011, at 11:13 AM, Randy Carpenter wrote: > > - Original Message - >> All of the speculation and comment on this thread has been something >> to watch, but, it's not actually all that accurate. >> >> https://www.arin.net/policy/nrpm.html#four2 >> >> NRPM 4.2 provides several

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

On 09/17/2011 01:19 PM, John Curran wrote: On Sep 16, 2011, at 3:45 PM, Charles N Wyble wrote: 2) Obtain ipv6 space from ARIN (inquired about getting space and ran into some issues. need to speak with my co founder and get details. evidently getting brand new v6 space for a brand new network i

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

> One more reason we can all do ourselves a favor by moving to ipv6, > remove the number scarcity issue and associated baggage of begging for > numbers silly hope. we created monopoly organizations. this kind of thing is self-perpetuating. randy

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

> I have absolutely no doubt that there are sufficient folks > participating in NANOG to get nearly any policy desired > through the ARIN policy process. To the extent that folks > don't care to learn the current policies and participate in > the policy development process, they end u

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

On Sep 17, 2011, at 5:06 PM, Randy Bush wrote: >> I have absolutely no doubt that there are sufficient folks >> participating in NANOG to get nearly any policy desired >> through the ARIN policy process. To the extent that folks >> don't care to learn the current policies and participate in

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

>>> I have absolutely no doubt that there are sufficient folks >>> participating in NANOG to get nearly any policy desired >>> through the ARIN policy process. To the extent that folks >>> don't care to learn the current policies and participate in >>> the policy development process, they

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

On Sep 17, 2011, at 5:05 PM, Randy Bush wrote: >> One more reason we can all do ourselves a favor by moving to ipv6, >> remove the number scarcity issue and associated baggage of begging for >> numbers > > silly hope. we created monopoly organizations. this kind of thing is > self-perpetuating.

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

>> Strange... You seem to overcome it well enough to join in the >> discussion on PPML, but not to actual propose changes to policy. > i believe you are mistaken. i am not knowingly a subscriber to ppml, > and am not, to the best of my knowledge, participating in any > discussion(s) there. a sea

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

>>> One more reason we can all do ourselves a favor by moving to ipv6, >>> remove the number scarcity issue and associated baggage of begging for >>> numbers >> silly hope. we created monopoly organizations. this kind of thing is >> self-perpetuating. > Randy - If you wish to propose an alternati

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

On Sep 17, 2011, at 5:23 PM, Randy Bush wrote: >> Randy - If you wish to propose an alternative which accomplishes the >> mission in a different manner, feel free to do so. The community has >> every opportunity and right to accomplish unique Internet number >> administration as it sees fit. > > r

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

>> rick adams was right. this could be done very minimally with some >> software and maybe six to ten folk to back it up. gedanken experiment. instead of frelling up whois, printing comic books, and playing weenie regulators, design and describe an rir with a sign on the door which says "inter

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

On Sep 17, 2011, at 5:19 PM, Randy Bush wrote: >>> Strange... You seem to overcome it well enough to join in the >>> discussion on PPML, but not to actual propose changes to policy. >> i believe you are mistaken. i am not knowingly a subscriber to ppml, >> and am not, to the best of my knowledge

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

>> From: Randy Bush >> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] NAT444 rumors (was Re: Looking for an IPv6 >> naysayer...) >> Date: February 21, 2011 9:00:50 PM EST >> To: Dan Wing >> Cc: 'NANOG list' , 'ARIN-PPML List' >> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-donley-nat444-impacts-01 >>> That docume

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

>>> From: Randy Bush >>> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] NAT444 rumors (was Re: Looking for an IPv6 >>> naysayer...) >>> Date: February 21, 2011 9:00:50 PM EST >>> To: Dan Wing >>> Cc: 'NANOG list' , 'ARIN-PPML List' >>> > http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-donley-nat444-impacts-01 Tha

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

> > I have a small ISP customer who is not multi-homed, and is using > > about a /21 and a half of space, and is expanding. Their upstream > > is refusing to give them more space, so they wanted to get their > > own, and give back the space to the upstream, with the possible > > exception of a sma

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

- Original Message - > From: "Randy Carpenter" > I have a small ISP customer who is not multi-homed, and is using about > a /21 and a half of space, and is expanding. Their upstream is > refusing to give them more space, so they wanted to get their own, and > give back the space to the up

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

On Sep 17, 2011, at 3:01 AM, Charles N Wyble wrote: > One aspect of my network, will be operational transparency. So as much as > possible will be viewable in real time. This includes v4/v6 traffic > statistics. These books are required reading, IMHO:

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

On 09/17/2011 06:52 PM, Randy Carpenter wrote: >>> I have a small ISP customer who is not multi-homed, and is using >>> about a /21 and a half of space, and is expanding. Their upstream >>> is refusing to give them more space, so they wanted to get their >>> own, and give back the space to the upst

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

On Saturday 17 Sep 2011 22:37:46 Randy Bush wrote: > one to post overly aggressive defensive messages on nanog I am not convinced that Mr. Bush is best placed to comment on this particular issue. -- The only thing worse than e-mail disclaimers...is people who send e-mail to lists complaining a

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

>> one to post overly aggressive defensive messages on nanog > I am not convinced that Mr. Bush is best placed to comment on this > particular issue. you seem to have a problem differentiating defense from offense. i recommend you not play chess. :) randy

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

On Sep 18, 2011, at 10:24 AM, Randy Bush wrote: > >>> one to post overly aggressive defensive messages on nanog >> I am not convinced that Mr. Bush is best placed to comment on this >> particular issue. > > you seem to have a problem differentiating defense from offense. i > recommend you not pl

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

one to post overly aggressive defensive messages on nanog >>> I am not convinced that Mr. Bush is best placed to comment on this >>> particular issue. >> you seem to have a problem differentiating defense from offense. i >> recommend you not play chess. :) > Randy is perfectly right in expre

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

On Sep 18, 2011, at 10:49 AM, Randy Bush wrote: > i just think that we, as a culture, have let things get wy out of > whack. john is paid to defend the status grow. I like that: "status grow". It seems pretty clear to me that, as humans, we're not very good at organizational contraction.

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

> IPv4 trading is already taking place, what are you (as operators) > planning to do when asked to route prefixes that have been > bought/sold? Will you accept alternative (whois) registry sources? why the heck should i have to? the iana and the frelling rirs' one principal task is to register.

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

On Sep 18, 2011, at 3:09 PM, Randy Bush wrote: >> IPv4 trading is already taking place, what are you (as operators) >> planning to do when asked to route prefixes that have been >> bought/sold? Will you accept alternative (whois) registry sources? > > why the heck should i have to? the iana an

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

> I'm told of others that have bought legacy IPv4 prefixes with no > intention of updating whois at this time - no desire to enter into a > relationship with ARIN and be subjected to existing "policy", for > instance. so your point is that your friends at depository.com will be attractive to ip ad

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

On Sep 18, 2011, at 15:51, Randy Bush wrote: >> I'm told of others that have bought legacy IPv4 prefixes with no >> intention of updating whois at this time - no desire to enter into a >> relationship with ARIN and be subjected to existing "policy", for >> instance. > > so your point is that yo

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

On Sep 18, 2011 1:08 PM, "Benson Schliesser" wrote: > > > On Sep 18, 2011, at 15:51, Randy Bush wrote: > > >> I'm told of others that have bought legacy IPv4 prefixes with no > >> intention of updating whois at this time - no desire to enter into a > >> relationship with ARIN and be subjected to

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

On 9/18/11 1:08 PM, Benson Schliesser wrote: > > On Sep 18, 2011, at 15:51, Randy Bush wrote: > >>> I'm told of others that have bought legacy IPv4 prefixes with no >>> intention of updating whois at this time - no desire to enter into a >>> relationship with ARIN and be subjected to existing "p

RE: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

ment.com] Sent: Sunday, September 18, 2011 12:58 AM To: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network On 09/17/2011 06:52 PM, Randy Carpenter wrote: >>> I have a small ISP customer who is not multi-homed, and is using >&

RE: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

> -Original Message- > From: Frank Bulk [mailto:frnk...@iname.com] > Sent: 18 September 2011 23:14 > To: 'Charles N Wyble'; nanog@nanog.org > Subject: RE: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on > building a nationwide network > > Where I

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

On Sep 18, 2011, at 2:53 PM, Benson Schliesser wrote: > > In John's case (on behalf of ARIN as is befitting his role) he welcomes > change as long as it's funneled through the ARIN-managed channels. In other > words, change is welcome as long as it reinforces ARIN's role as facilitator. > B

RE: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

:leigh.por...@ukbroadband.com] Sent: Sunday, September 18, 2011 6:37 PM To: frnk...@iname.com; 'Charles N Wyble'; nanog@nanog.org Subject: RE: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network > -Original Message- > From: Frank Bulk [mailto:frn

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

On Sep 18, 2011, at 3:36 PM, Benson Schliesser wrote: > On Sep 18, 2011, at 3:09 PM, Randy Bush wrote: >> why the heck should i have to? the iana and the frelling rirs' one >> principal task is to register. if they do not register transfers then >> what are we all smoking? > > I don't disagree..

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

On 09/18/2011 08:25 PM, Frank Bulk wrote: > I understand that tunneling meets the letter of the ARIN policy, but I'll > make the bold assumption that wasn't the spirit of the policy when it was > written. Maybe the policy needs to be amended to clarify that. Well that would be a shame in my opi

RE: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

On Sun, 18 Sep 2011, Frank Bulk wrote: I understand that tunneling meets the letter of the ARIN policy, but I'll make the bold assumption that wasn't the spirit of the policy when it was written. Maybe the policy needs to be amended to clarify that. I think this is a bad idea and I suspect w

RE: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

[mailto:t...@lavanauts.org] Sent: Sunday, September 18, 2011 9:27 PM To: Frank Bulk Cc: 'Leigh Porter'; 'Charles N Wyble'; nanog@nanog.org Subject: RE: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network On Sun, 18 Sep 2011, Frank Bulk wrote: > I un

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

On Sun, Sep 18, 2011 at 8:25 PM, Frank Bulk wrote: > I understand that tunneling meets the letter of the ARIN policy, but I'll > make the bold assumption that wasn't the spirit of the policy when it was > written.  Maybe the policy needs to be amended to clarify that. > ARIN is not in a positio

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

On Sep 18, 2011, at 21:20, John Curran wrote: > On Sep 18, 2011, at 2:53 PM, Benson Schliesser wrote: >> >> In John's case (on behalf of ARIN as is befitting his role) he welcomes >> change as long as it's funneled through the ARIN-managed channels. In other >> words, change is welcome as l

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

To: frnk...@iname.com; 'Charles N Wyble'; nanog@nanog.org > Subject: RE: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a > nationwide network > >> -Original Message- >> From: Frank Bulk [mailto:frnk...@iname.com] >> Sent: 18 September 20

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

On Sep 19, 2011, at 12:57 AM, Benson Schliesser wrote: >> However, your statement that I only welcome change funneled through >> "ARIN-managed channels" is incorrect, as I have made it quite plain >> on multiple occasions that the structure of the Internet number >> registry system itself is no

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

On Sep 18, 2011, at 6:51 PM, Charles N Wyble wrote: > On 09/18/2011 08:25 PM, Frank Bulk wrote: >> I understand that tunneling meets the letter of the ARIN policy, but I'll >> make the bold assumption that wasn't the spirit of the policy when it was >> written. Maybe the policy needs to be ame

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

> All transfer requests which meet the policies get approved and > updated in the registry. ARIN does turn down transfer requests > which don't meet policy, and this potential is often understood > and covered in proposed sale documents for IP address blocks. would you be willing to describe wh

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

On Sun, 18 Sep 2011 13:17:57 PDT, Cameron Byrne said: > Call me optimistic but ipv6 does not have these issues... > > For anyone making STRATEGIC choices about ipv4 investments... beware of > sharks in these waters, not just the cgn pains For many of us (especiially the ones who have ipv6 d

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

On Sep 19, 2011, at 3:34 AM, Randy Bush wrote: >> All transfer requests which meet the policies get approved and >> updated in the registry. ARIN does turn down transfer requests >> which don't meet policy, and this potential is often understood >> and covered in proposed sale documents for IP

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

On 09/18/11 19:41, Frank Bulk wrote: I should have made myself more clear -- the policy amendment would make clear that multihoming requires only one facilities-based connection and that the other connections could be fulfilled via tunnels. This may be heresy for some. I don't think the policy

RE: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

On Sun, 18 Sep 2011, Frank Bulk wrote: I should have made myself more clear -- the policy amendment would make clear that multihoming requires only one facilities-based connection and that the other connections could be fulfilled via tunnels. This may be heresy for some. That's not multihomin

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

On 9/19/2011 6:02 PM, Jon Lewis wrote: On Sun, 18 Sep 2011, Frank Bulk wrote: I should have made myself more clear -- the policy amendment would make clear that multihoming requires only one facilities-based connection and that the other connections could be fulfilled via tunnels. This may be

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

On 9/19/2011 6:02 PM, Jon Lewis wrote: On Sun, 18 Sep 2011, Frank Bulk wrote: I should have made myself more clear -- the policy amendment would make clear that multihoming requires only one facilities-based connection and that the other connections could be fulfilled via tunnels. This may be

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

> 1) One IP connection via a T-1. Second IP connection via GRE tunnel > carried on first. > > 2) One IP connection via a T-1 that doesn't have transit, only peering > with providers B and C. IP connections via two GRE tunnels to providers > B and C. > > 3) One IP connection via MPLS over T-1.

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

On 9/19/2011 8:32 PM, Randy Bush wrote: you left out one connection via a chevy full of hollerith cards and the second a canoe full of 7 track tape in waterproof containers. They certainly have different loss characteristics, even if you don't get unique routing policy out of it. Matthew Kau

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

On 9/16/2011 12:58 PM, Leigh Porter wrote: I wonder what would happen if a new ARIN member requested an IPv4 block of say a /16 for a new business? Or even a smaller block. I don't know what the current ARIN rules are but RIPE will currently give out six months worth of space. Now, in six mo

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

On 9/18/2011 7:27 PM, Antonio Querubin wrote: On Sun, 18 Sep 2011, Frank Bulk wrote: I understand that tunneling meets the letter of the ARIN policy, but I'll make the bold assumption that wasn't the spirit of the policy when it was written. Maybe the policy needs to be amended to clarify th

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

- Original Message - > From: "Randy Bush" > you left out one connection via a chevy full of hollerith cards and > the second a canoe full of 7 track tape in waterproof containers. That's "a station wagon full of magtape". Henry would be disappointed. Cheers, -- jra * See also http://ww

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

On 09/19/2011 10:40 PM, Matthew Kaufman wrote: > On 9/16/2011 12:58 PM, Leigh Porter wrote: >> >> >> I wonder what would happen if a new ARIN member requested an IPv4 >> block of say a /16 for a new business? Or even a smaller block. I >> don't know what the current ARIN rules are but RIPE will cur

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

On Tue, 20 Sep 2011 05:32:04 +0200, Randy Bush said: > you left out one connection via a chevy full of hollerith cards and the > second a canoe full of 7 track tape in waterproof containers. Does anybody actually *have* a functional 7 track drive? I remember seeing a story on PBS (may have been

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

given that as 729 maxes out at 800cpi there are probably slightly kinky ways to attack the problem, e.g. someone doing it with disk packs. http://chrisfenton.com/cray-1-digital-archeology/ there's still plenty of equipment that can wrap 1/2" tape around a spindle. On 9/19/11 21:14 , valdis.kletn

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

*This message was transferred with a trial version of CommuniGate(r) Pro* >Does anybody actually *have* a functional 7 track drive? The folks restoring at least one IBM 1401 probably have several. http://ibm-1401.info/ Other than replacing a lot of older tab shop hardware, a primary functi

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

On Tue, Sep 20, 2011 at 01:22:43AM -0400, Barton F Bruce wrote: > >Does anybody actually *have* a functional 7 track drive? > > The folks restoring at least one IBM 1401 probably have several. > >http://ibm-1401.info/ A few (dozen) years ago, I was treated to a interesting demonstration wher

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

>>http://ibm-1401.info/ > A few (dozen) years ago, I was treated to a interesting demonstration > where a coworker poured an oily fluid containing tiny metallic flakes > on a patch of tape. The "bits" on the tape could be clearly seen by > the naked eye, and could be decoded (ever so slowly!)

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

On Tue, Sep 20, 2011 at 12:14:59AM -0400, valdis.kletni...@vt.edu wrote: > On Tue, 20 Sep 2011 05:32:04 +0200, Randy Bush said: > > > you left out one connection via a chevy full of hollerith cards and the > > second a canoe full of 7 track tape in waterproof containers. > > Does anybody actually

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

> Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2011 00:07:06 -0400 (EDT) > From: Jay Ashworth > Subject: Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a > nationwide network > > > From: "Randy Bush" > > > you left out one connection via a chevy full of hollerit

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

Randy Bush wrote: http://ibm-1401.info/ A few (dozen) years ago, I was treated to a interesting demonstration where a coworker poured an oily fluid containing tiny metallic flakes on a patch of tape. The "bits" on the tape could be clearly seen by the naked eye, and could be decoded (ever so

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

> From: valdis.kletni...@vt.edu > Subject: Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a > nationwide network > Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2011 00:14:59 -0400 > > > Does anybody actually *have* a functional 7 track drive? I _think_ there's a guy in OZ

RE: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

> From: valdis.kletni...@vt.edu [mailto:valdis.kletni...@vt.edu] > Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2011 12:15 AM > > On Tue, 20 Sep 2011 05:32:04 +0200, Randy Bush said: > > > you left out one connection via a chevy full of hollerith cards and > the > > second a canoe full of 7 track tape in water

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

On Mon, 19 Sep 2011, Matthew Kaufman wrote: On 9/19/2011 6:02 PM, Jon Lewis wrote: On Sun, 18 Sep 2011, Frank Bulk wrote: I should have made myself more clear -- the policy amendment would make clear that multihoming requires only one facilities-based connection and that the other connections

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

Once upon a time, Henry Yen said: > A few (dozen) years ago, I was treated to a interesting demonstration where > a coworker poured an oily fluid containing tiny metallic flakes on a patch > of tape. The "bits" on the tape could be clearly seen by the naked eye, > and could be decoded (ever so sl

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

On Tue, Sep 20, 2011 at 10:22 AM, Jon Lewis wrote: > On Tue, 20 Sep 2011, Dorn Hetzel wrote: > > If what you have is LEC frame relay service over which you have PVCs to >> two >> providers of IP transit service, then, IMO, you are multihomed. Are you >> protected against every single failure mo

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

Benson Schliesser writes: > For what it's worth, I agree that ARIN has a pretty good governance > structure. (With the exception of NomCom this year, which is shamefully > unbalanced.) ... as the chairman of the 2011 ARIN NomCom, i hope you'll explain further, either publically here, or privatel

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

On Tue, Sep 20, 2011 at 12:13 PM, Jon Lewis wrote: > Dorn, you have some interesting mail habits. Your message was sent > directly to me (without list). My reply to that message was to you (without > the list). Now you're replying to that reply and including the list again. > That's generally

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

Hi, Paul. On Sep 20, 2011, at 11:43, Paul Vixie wrote: > Benson Schliesser writes: > >> For what it's worth, I agree that ARIN has a pretty good governance >> structure. (With the exception of NomCom this year, which is shamefully >> unbalanced.) ... > > as the chairman of the 2011 ARIN NomCo

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

I plan to announce my ASN out of 3 physically diverse hops over 100mbps or gige. I believe that qualifies as multihoming under pretty much all definitions? On that note, is anyone familiar with peering fabrics in 60 Hudson and 600 West 7th (or peering fabrics that are fiber close in those loca

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

On September 20, 2011 at 02:00 he...@aegisinfosys.com (Henry Yen) wrote: > > A few (dozen) years ago, I was treated to a interesting demonstration where > a coworker poured an oily fluid containing tiny metallic flakes on a patch > of tape. The "bits" on the tape could be clearly seen by the

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