Re: [OAUTH-WG] Signatures, Why?

2010-03-12 Thread Eve Maler
Agreed that token signing is separate from message signing as a proposition. I just happened to stick all of our "signing" conversations into one bucket of notes... Sorry that was confusing. Eve On 12 Mar 2010, at 11:06 AM, Brian Eaton wrote: > On Fri, Mar 12, 2010 at 10:22 AM, Eve M

Re: [OAUTH-WG] Signatures, Why?

2010-03-12 Thread Igor Faynberg
Yes, the third-party-based non-repudiation with symmetric cryptography is a complex thing. The way I would apply it to the Client request is as follows: 1) The Client sends the token request, R, to the Third Party (and, you are right, the Third Party must know who the client is, and so one

Re: [OAUTH-WG] Signatures, Why?

2010-03-12 Thread Dick Hardt
Hi Igor Thanks for explanation. Unfortunately I am more confused. How does the third party know who the Client is? I don't understand how an Access Token plus a signing secret gives any more assurance than an Access Token unless I get the Access Token from a different place than the signing s

Re: [OAUTH-WG] Signatures, Why?

2010-03-12 Thread Igor Faynberg
Dick, The trick here is THE THIRD PARTY (referred to in the last words of Eve's message), who is effectively a witness to the transaction. (This works pretty much like when you want to switch your telephone provider. You would be transferred to the third party to confirm your request.) Absent

Re: [OAUTH-WG] Signatures, Why?

2010-03-12 Thread Brian Eaton
On Fri, Mar 12, 2010 at 10:22 AM, Eve Maler wrote: > It was observed that the argument in the OAuth community about token size > seems to be related to token signing, thusly: those who are willing to > require the Authorization Server to be stateless need large meaningful > tokens and want them si

Re: [OAUTH-WG] Signatures, Why?

2010-03-12 Thread Dick Hardt
On 2010-03-12, at 10:22 AM, Eve Maler wrote: > This nets out to the requesting party (person or company seeking access) > having an incentive to say "It's really me accessing this", such that it > mitigates the risk that the requester (client) will hand off both the access > token and the sign

[OAUTH-WG] Token validation and other host/authz communication

2010-03-12 Thread Eve Maler
In the recent thread here: http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/oauth/current/msg01234.html Subject: "Recent UMA work that may inform this group's deliberations" ...Dick and I had a bit of discussion around UMA's proposal for a back-channel method of token validation that a Protected Resource co

Re: [OAUTH-WG] Signatures, Why?

2010-03-12 Thread Eve Maler
Here is some late input to this thread. The UMA group had a F2F meeting on Wednesday, for which draft minutes are written up here: http://kantarainitiative.org/confluence/display/uma/UMA+telecon+2010-03-10 I had taken an action from the last OAuth telecon to collect UMA use cases that related