Ryan McDougall wrote:
> In a non-SL context, that asset storage is ameliorated over a
> distributed asset system, whether it be P2P, or my own local asset
> server.
>
> There is a ceiling on the growth of asset copies: any given avatar has
> a fixed number of things to wear, a region a fixed numbe
Dirk Krause wrote:
> Glad you asked :-).
>
> I would do a mixture of the following (and admit that I didn't think it all
> through to the very end).
>
> - introduce grid wide, region wide and personal (user) asset domains
> - introduce quotas for these
> - allow clones ('byref') assets, and copi
On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 05:23:04AM +, Melanie wrote:
> You can't currently hard-limit anything. We have seen 20+ avatars in
> regions with 6000+ prims on less memory than that.
Was that Mono, or .Net?
> Generally, avatars take more memory than prims.
--
Eugen* Leitl http://leitl.org";>leit
On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 03:46:58AM +, Melanie wrote:
> As a rule of thumb, 256MB per sim is an operative minimum, but mono
> really likes to see 1GB per region to be happy.
>
> Some people use VPS to run OpenSim in, I don't recommend that,though.
Depends on the virtualization technology. Lin
Hi Geetika,
Also sprach Geetika S (geetik...@tcs.com):
> I wonder if anyone has tried composing multiple streams into a single
> stream like a grid of videos and streaming that to the client. Would
> introduce a slightly greater lag but then everyone would be at the same
> lag.
We have done that
I wonder if anyone has tried composing multiple streams into a single
stream like a grid of videos and streaming that to the client. Would
introduce a slightly greater lag but then everyone would be at the same
lag.
Geetika Sharma
opensim-dev-boun...@lists.berlios.de wrote on 02/19/2009 11:55:51
Dirk Krause wrote:
> But I don't know if the client can display multiple streams, or whether it
> just plays the stream of the very parcel you stand in.
>
>
The client will only show the stream that is associated with the parcel
you currently occupy. If you have the same media texture for all
Thanks Dirk and Melanie! Will let you know how my experiments come out.
Geetika Sharma
opensim-dev-boun...@lists.berlios.de wrote on 02/19/2009 11:45:12 AM:
> "Dirk Krause"
> Sent by: opensim-dev-boun...@lists.berlios.de
>
> 02/19/2009 11:45 AM
>
> Please respond to
> opensim-dev@lists.berlios.
I always had that on my list to try this, but didn't try it yet :-).
As far as I understood you should be able to divide your region in parcels.
Each parcel can have a different media stream. So what I wanted to try was to
divide one big conference room into N parcels each with a media stream o
Thanks Dirk. But how does one do multiple simultaneous streams cause the
media url can point to only one address? Also, would multiple simultaneous
streams slow down the client?
Geetika Sharma
opensim-dev-boun...@lists.berlios.de wrote on 02/19/2009 11:22:27 AM:
> "Dirk Krause"
> Sent by: opens
Since the display of the media streams are totally unrelated to OpenSim (except
invocation and termination), meaning OpenSim only knows the link and the
streaming is between the viewer and the streaming server, it shouldn't affect
the avatar limit at all, esp when the streaming server is on a d
Is it possible to do multiple webcam streams in a single region? How does
that affect the avatar limit? I want to set it up using Darwin.
Thanks
Geetika Sharma
opensim-dev-boun...@lists.berlios.de wrote on 02/19/2009 11:05:09 AM:
> Melanie
> Sent by: opensim-dev-boun...@lists.berlios.de
>
> 02
Ok, and the 150Kbps that you said was of UpStream (from server to
client) ou DownStream (from client to server)?
Thanks!
2009/2/19 Melanie :
> No one has ever gotten there. It has always crashed.
>
> Melanie
>
> Geetika S wrote:
>> But in any case doing 50+ avatars would be murder, right?
>>
>> Ge
No one has ever gotten there. It has always crashed.
Melanie
Geetika S wrote:
> But in any case doing 50+ avatars would be murder, right?
>
> Geetika Sharma
>
> opensim-dev-boun...@lists.berlios.de wrote on 02/19/2009 10:53:04 AM:
>
>> Melanie
>> Sent by: opensim-dev-boun...@lists.berlios.de
They're kilobit/s and they are UPSTREAM from the region, meaning
they are going out to the client.
melanie
Bernardo Donadio wrote:
> Ok, and the 150Kbps (was kilobits, not kilobytes, right?) are of
> upload or download?
> Thanks!
>
> 2009/2/19 Melanie :
>> You can't currently hard-limit anythin
But in any case doing 50+ avatars would be murder, right?
Geetika Sharma
opensim-dev-boun...@lists.berlios.de wrote on 02/19/2009 10:53:04 AM:
> Melanie
> Sent by: opensim-dev-boun...@lists.berlios.de
>
> 02/19/2009 10:53 AM
>
> Please respond to
> opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de
>
> To
>
> opensi
Ok, and the 150Kbps (was kilobits, not kilobytes, right?) are of
upload or download?
Thanks!
2009/2/19 Melanie :
> You can't currently hard-limit anything. We have seen 20+ avatars in
> regions with 6000+ prims on less memory than that.
> Generally, avatars take more memory than prims.
>
> Melanie
You can't currently hard-limit anything. We have seen 20+ avatars in
regions with 6000+ prims on less memory than that.
Generally, avatars take more memory than prims.
Melanie
Geetika S wrote:
> Hi
>
> If you do provide 1GB per region, what limits does one need to impose on
> number of avatars,
You can use any voice system _beside_ opensim. No other system
provides a Linden viewer plugin, though.
Melanie
Bernardo Donadio wrote:
> And, I was reading that the OpenSim don't work with the built-in SL
> voice system. Is that right? And if yes, I can integrate other voice
> system, like Mamb
Hi
If you do provide 1GB per region, what limits does one need to impose on
number of avatars, scripts objects etc.?
Thanks
Geetika Sharma
opensim-dev-boun...@lists.berlios.de wrote on 02/19/2009 09:52:30 AM:
> Dahlia Trimble
> Sent by: opensim-dev-boun...@lists.berlios.de
>
> 02/19/2009 09:5
And, I was reading that the OpenSim don't work with the built-in SL
voice system. Is that right? And if yes, I can integrate other voice
system, like Mambo (open-source) or Temspeak (proprietary)?
Thanks!
2009/2/19 Melanie :
> A rule of thumb is 150KBit/s per client.
>
> Melanie
>
> Bernardo Donad
A rule of thumb is 150KBit/s per client.
Melanie
Bernardo Donadio wrote:
> Ok, and how much is the utilization of the network? How much 1 client
> need of bandwidth?
> Thanks for all and sorry for my bad english :-)
>
> 2009/2/19 Dahlia Trimble :
>> It really matters how much memory the region i
Ok, and how much is the utilization of the network? How much 1 client
need of bandwidth?
Thanks for all and sorry for my bad english :-)
2009/2/19 Dahlia Trimble :
> It really matters how much memory the region is using. If you don't have
> enough, the system will need to use swap space and that w
It really matters how much memory the region is using. If you don't have
enough, the system will need to use swap space and that will be perceived as
lag spurts. How much memory you use is dependent on how many avatars are
online, how many prims and how complex they are, and how many scripts are
ru
Thanks for the quick response, but what can happens if i run for
example with 512MB? The server will have a high ping or what?
Thanks again for all!
>As a rule of thumb, 256MB per sim is an operative minimum, but mono
>really likes to see 1GB per region to be happy.
>
>
>2009/2/19 Bernardo Donadi
As a rule of thumb, 256MB per sim is an operative minimum, but mono
really likes to see 1GB per region to be happy.
Some people use VPS to run OpenSim in, I don't recommend that,though.
Melanie
Bernardo Donadio wrote:
> Hi!
> I'm new on OpenSim and I want to make a server. But I don't know what
Hi!
I'm new on OpenSim and I want to make a server. But I don't know what I will
need to do one, for a server with only one 256x256 region, and something
about 8~10 users at same time, what I will need?
The server will run Linux Debian 5.0, probably with an optimized kernel and
in a Virtual Machine
Hi,
i proposed a reaping strategy that is both type and time based.
There was no direct response to it, but current development on new
de-duping cable beach plugins may go a long way to curb asset
proliferation and the reaper can be developed on that basis.
Refcounting may be feasible as a pos
Melanie wrote:
> This is something i have though about. However, it would not work in
> OSGrid. Regions may go away, and they may go away permanently.
> Anything in a prim inventory at that time is refcounted and would
> not be released. Ever.
>
In what what in particular would this be worse
This is something i have though about. However, it would not work in
OSGrid. Regions may go away, and they may go away permanently.
Anything in a prim inventory at that time is refcounted and would
not be released. Ever.
So, you'd need a ref list, to purge invalid refs. That is where the
inpra
Here's my L$0.02, for what it's worth - why not maintain a 'reference
count' in the asset entry?
Resident A creates a prim, takes it into inventory. Asset is created,
inventory item pointing to asset is created, asset->useagecount++. User
gives away 15 copies of item, asset->usagecount+=15. Res
- Forwarded message from Lawson English -
From: Lawson English
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2009 14:08:59 -0700
To: croquet-...@duke.edu
CC: "Meadhbh S. Hamrick (Infinity Linden)" ,
David W Levine
Subject: [croquet-dev] meeting today for arranging media links for MMOX BOF
meeting
User-Age
Dear colleagues,
Kunnis and JHurliman has been working to incorporate our Prebuild
customizations into the upstream source, and we're now at the point where we
can do an upstream update and subsequentially move the Prebuild source out of
the trunk and into opensim-libs. (Or should it go on
- I also agree with you
Dirk Krause wrote:
I hope I am not too notorious by stating:
- no 'big corp' IT manager will accept a solution with 'uncontrollable growth
in asset storage' as Tommi correctly put it. Period.
- I learned through Melanie that these issue are well known and already
addr
I hope I am not too notorious by stating:
- no 'big corp' IT manager will accept a solution with 'uncontrollable growth
in asset storage' as Tommi correctly put it. Period.
- I learned through Melanie that these issue are well known and already
addressed.
- I also learned that potential viewer de
My goal in starting this whole discussion in the first place was two fold.
Fold 1: Get us considering how to evolve OpenSim so that assets database
currently containing 1.5million entries and consuming 50GBytes to support
10,000 users does not continue to grow without bound at the current 4GByte
ok, very cool, thanks for the info.
I take it you esp refer to IdealistViewer, openviewer and the Rex-NG viewer?
-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
Von: opensim-dev-boun...@lists.berlios.de
[mailto:opensim-dev-boun...@lists.berlios.de] Im Auftrag von Melanie
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 18. Februar 2009 2
Stefan Andersson wrote:
Um. Having immutable assets do bring a number of optimization
shortcuts. I'm not saying it's all good - merely that it's not all bad.
The OpenSim solution, as always, is to address each case by itself,
and to make divergence optional.
So, maybe region map textures s
There are several viewer being developed already and their authors
are aware of requirements and responsive to different needs.
Mainly, any new viewer will be able to accommodate changes quickly,
unlike the LL viewer. So I see no need for a drawn out
standardization discussion. This project is
Ok, granted. But isn't this a bit chicken/egg here? Possible solution
scenarios should define the requirements of the viewer, which probably won't
write itself. Esp. when new viewers will be based on openmv somebody should
tell John et al. :-).
-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
Von: opensim-d
In the viewer, the following are true:
- The asset ID attached to an inventory item may not change
- The item ID of an inventory item may not change
- an asset's content may not change.
So, with this client, it's moot.
We are exploring other concepts and will be implementing them as and
when ot
I suggest we talk more about complementary and parallell scenarios and
strategies, and less about either/or - this is a platform, and various
implemetations will prioritize differently.
Best regards,
Stefan Andersson
Tribal Media AB
> Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2009 20:02:38 +0100
> From: dirk.kra.
There could be business modell attached to it.
Lets say you sell only the 'right to use it for a given time' to the user, then
you would have only one set of assets with multiple inventory pointers from
your 2000 customers. Once you delete/disable it, no one can use it anymore.
Once you update i
In a non-SL context, that asset storage is ameliorated over a
distributed asset system, whether it be P2P, or my own local asset
server.
There is a ceiling on the growth of asset copies: any given avatar has
a fixed number of things to wear, a region a fixed number of things to
display, or a human
Making a copy is the greater evil. With implicitly shared assets,
only content creators create assets. With asset copying, each
sale/give creates assets.
Take SL:
I make a clothing item. I have to make 18 uploads (creating 18
assets) to finally use 2 of the uploaded textures. I have also
creat
Justin Clark-Casey wrote:
> The problem is that you may have given that item to somebody else.
> Giving an item does not make an asset copy, it just makes an
> inventory item copy (both inventory items still point towards the
> same asset).
>
> So you may delete your item, but we don't know if the
We can't step away from SL compatibility until there is a
full-featured, viable viewer, preferably not based on Linden Labs
code. Until then, the viewer's asset caching mechanism make that
impossible.
Melanie
Dirk Krause wrote:
> ...
>
>>> This would mean that any grid runs into a severe proble
All you described is design behavior.
Prim items in world are not assets. They are stored exclusively in
the prims tables of the region.
Once taken, they become an asset. The name is totally meaningless,
it reflects whatever was the name at creation. Nothing else. It
never changes from there on.
NHibernate has, in tests, been significantly slower than native
implementations.
Melanie
Antti Kokko wrote:
> Trying to catch up but anyway what I think in general is that the whole
> database schema is not the best in terms of coherence, associations etc. For
> me it seems that at first came all
+1 asset storage providers again. Trying to avoid one unideality causes
usually another unideality to occur. In this case immutable assets cause
uncontrollable growth in asset storage systems. It would be better to do
something like Dirk suggests and accept that sometimes something what is
referenc
Glad you asked :-).
I would do a mixture of the following (and admit that I didn't think it all
through to the very end).
- introduce grid wide, region wide and personal (user) asset domains
- introduce quotas for these
- allow clones ('byref') assets, and copies that go into one of the domains,
Dirk Krause wrote:
> ...
[...]
>
> But isn't that ... horrible? (in lack of a better/worse word.)
>
> As I said yesterday, IMHO there is no real need to think about
> optimizations when you have
> a serious blocker like this. I would even go so far that this is a major
> roadblock for grid based
Um. Having immutable assets do bring a number of optimization shortcuts. I'm
not saying it's all good - merely that it's not all bad.
The OpenSim solution, as always, is to address each case by itself, and to make
divergence optional.
So, maybe region map textures should be overwriteable.
...
>> This would mean that any grid runs into a severe problem over time.
>> Yep :). On a standalone one could implement some cleanup scheme
which checks everything to see
>> if an asset is still referenced, and deletes that asset if it is not.
>> In grid mode this is a much more difficult prob
Dirk Krause wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I did a little test with a fresh OpenSim installation (yes, thanks for
> the installer!),
> to get a grip on what I learned from Melanie yesterday.
>
> I wrote a little python script to help me monitor these tables:
> inventoryStore/inventoryItems
> assetStorage/a
Hi,
I did a little test with a fresh OpenSim installation (yes, thanks for
the installer!),
to get a grip on what I learned from Melanie yesterday.
I wrote a little python script to help me monitor these tables:
inventoryStore/inventoryItems
assetStorage/assets
http://pastebin.com/mc9e6574 ,
Mike Mazur wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I have just one comment on the below commit:
>
>
> Could the extension point be renamed /OpenSim/AssetClient?
> AssetServerClient seems strangely confusing, perhaps redundant :P
Good call. I've sent the feedback on to Alan as I don't want to make
that change directl
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