I think a lot of IT people abused the situation during the boom days.
Company loyalty meant nothing ... we'll go wherever the biggest paychecks
are. Don't stay anywhere too long. that's for losers. Change jobs if we
felt the least bit abused and unappreciated. That'll teach them to screw
with
Partially true.
I've seen the IT cutbacks at a company where people almost
never leave. Many IT folk have been there 10+ year, a
surprising number of them 20+ years.
The flip side to the salary story is something of a paradox.
As a person became more experienced, learned new technologies,
and
Part of the problem lies with the old human vices - jealousy comes into
mind, first. The problem is mostly not with companies but immediate
supervisers, who often struggle with the prospect that the subordinate will
get more money - and they resent it to very core. They would rather hire
someone
The other problem is the HR departments magic wand yardstick of salary and
compensation which dictates, often incorrectly, how much a particular
job's
adequate compensation is. Never mind the fact that a regular HR joe
doesn't
understand DBAs from Developers - so the highly paid specialist
HR also doesn't have a technical track in many companies and the
highest salaries usually go to those on the management track... so
you either get promoted out of technical work and into management to
get the salary you deserve (which kind of defeats the purpose) or the
technical person sits at a
used it.
Its just something you have to live with. We dont make the rules.
From: Tanel Poder [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: 2003/08/27 Wed AM 04:14:30 EDT
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Nature of Oracle-l has changed
The other problem is the HR
On 2003.08.27 07:44, Rachel Carmichael wrote:
When I left Citibank, I was a Vice President... not because I was an
executive or management... but so that they could pay me what I was
worth.
For that, you should have been a CEO.
--
Mladen Gogala
Oracle DBA
--
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ:
I think there is a balance to be struck there...
Being responsible means treating the employer well if it's not that bad a
place to work; but it would be irresponsible to remain in an abusive work
place.
When my wife was a library technician, one day the manager of a
subcontracting company told
Hey, all you gotta do is tell them 5 years.
Like, it makes a difference to what they
know of it?
Cheers
Nuno Souto
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
- Original Message -
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2003 9:59 PM
in the technical business. Who
Reminds me of The Peter Principal. Promoted to your level of incompetance.
Henry
-Original Message-
Rachel Carmichael
Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2003 7:44 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
HR also doesn't have a technical track in many companies and the
highest salaries
NASA report... cutbacks + insulation against risk using procedures and
policies.
This is getting into OT though.
Patrice.
-Original Message-
Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2003 10:39 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Reminds me of The Peter Principal. Promoted to your level of
Tanel Poder scribbled on the wall in glitter crayon:
Tell me about it! I've had exactly the same experience about several
years ago. Even though I was leading tech part of every critical
project and was the contact whenever a serious problem occurred, the
employer paid higher salary to all
I working on a development project that I'm trying to take an ERD an convert it to object oriented. Does anyone know a tool or path to follow to accomplish this?
TIA
Jared Still [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Has anyone else noticed?Not so long ago, we saw quite a few more questions aboutsuch things as
PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
M.GodlewskiSent: Wednesday, August 27, 2003 10:44
AMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject: Re:
Nature of Oracle-l has changed
I working on a development project that I'm trying to take an ERD an
convert it to object oriented. Does
PROTECTED]
cc:
Subject:RE: [UBE?] Re: Nature of Oracle-l has changed
Reminds me of The Peter Principal. Promoted to your level of incompetance.
Henry
-Original Message-
Rachel Carmichael
Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2003 7:44 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
HR
wait -
is this OT??
We once had a principal named Peter in grade school. I think he reached that position through the Peter
Principle. Jared
"Henry Poras"
[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
08/27/2003 06:39 AM Please
respond to ORACLE-L
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
cc:
Subject:RE: [UBE?] Re: Nature of Oracle-l has changed
wait - is this OT??
We once had a principal named Peter in grade school.
I think he reached that position through the Peter Principle.
Jared
Henry Poras [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent by: [EMAIL
Rachel
I thought everyone who worked in a bank was at least a Vice President...?
:-))
Robert
(Vice President of myself, looking for a President).
-Original Message-
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Sent: 8/27/2003 6:44 AM
HR also doesn't have a technical track in many
But I thought you were already married? :)
Pete
Controlling developers is like herding cats.
Kevin Loney, Oracle DBA Handbook
Oh no, it's not. It's much harder than that!
Bruce Pihlamae, long term Oracle DBA.
-Original Message-
Freeman Robert - IL
Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2003
Here's a perfect example of an email that should
never have been sent.
Sigh... I'll learn one of these days.
This does not characterize the people I work for,
as they're a pretty good bunch and actually do
understand technology.
It's more of a generalized rant fueled by past
experiences.
Jared -
a line caught my attention...
When in school, I was told I would be more popular if I
wasn't so smart. I was even told that once as an adult.
School?! If someone were to ask me if I had any contemporary knowledge of
such damagement behaviour, all I could say would be 'You may
Hi,
This group is kind of boring for me because I don't have chance to answer questions,
those gurus are so fast, they reply almost everything.
they told you wasn't so smart or wasn't so... smart :)
Sinardy
-Original Message-
Sent: 25 August 2003 18:00
To: Multiple recipients of list
Here's a perfect example of an email that should
never have been sent.
Sigh... I'll learn one of these days.
This does not characterize the people I work for,
as they're a pretty good bunch and actually do
understand technology.
It's more of a generalized rant fueled by past
experiences.
On 2003.08.23 18:34, Tim Gorman wrote:
Six years ago, a CIO commented to me, waving down a corridor which had
offices full of developers, If I had my way, I'd get rid of all of them and
replace them with lawyers. We'd buy applications instead of building them
and then sue the vendors. My
- Original Message -
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, August 23, 2003 8:19 PM
On 2003.08.23 18:34, Tim Gorman wrote:
Six years ago, a CIO commented to me, waving down a corridor which had
offices full of developers, If I had my way, I'd
On 2003.08.23 21:04, Ryan wrote:
,
but its still flawed and years away from being sound principle. Management
wants sound bites. It will take this long, it will cost this much.
Well, the interviewer should normally vinow out the chaff. If he cannot
evaluate the candidate's communication skills or
There is something in replacing IT with lawyers. If an IT person does an
error then the company get sued and need lawyers to defend themselves.
It is better to let the developer do the error while is on the supplier
side and then sue then and get money.
Yechiel Adar
Mehish
- Original Message
Tim wrote
Any custom
development projects in these areas are the likely result of
poor requirements analysis... :-)
Hey we do that
Niall
--
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
--
Author: Niall Litchfield
INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Fat City Network Services
Mladen,
My version of the explanation of this goes back to childhood.
When you were in school, just which crowd were those execs in?
The 'in' crowd, the jocks, the party hounds.
If like me, you were one of the 'eggheads', you didn't fit
in so well with their clique, and maybe you still don't.
Gary Dodge has long included a wonderful quote in his email signature:
Building tomorrow's legacy systems today, one crisis at a time. Well,
those new legacy systems have been built and they are in production now.
Hence, the changes to the nature of this list...
Six years ago, a CIO commented to
Yes I would say that most of the topics have been more in line with
operational issues.
I think RMAN has probably had a higher hit in the conversation counter and
that i guess is due to more DBA's flirting with it in there environment,
Roberts book probably helps.
Since I am fortunate enough
Jared,
I agree that the development has declined at a lot of sites. We are a
VB shop and damagement has decided to outsource the hosting of our
reports database and the web based development of the application to
access the reports database. I soon will go from a 84 GIG database to a
5 GIG
That's why my post on historic tables and views seem lonely ;-)
Stephane
-Original Message-
Jared Still
Sent: Friday, August 22, 2003 2:19 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Has anyone else noticed?
Not so long ago, we saw quite a few more questions about
such things as
There is another thing happening: companies are more and more relying on
canned,
off the shelf applications, in a hope to become compliant with present
standards.
That has dramatically cut down the number of needed developers, because if
you don't
have to develop your general ledger, payroll, CRM
Jared,
Yes, the nature of the list has changed, so have the times. While development
work here is not slowing, the direction that we're going in has changed. Oracle's
development tools are just about history here replaced by PeopleSlop and JAVA. Also
I've spent a significant amount
OK, who let Chicken Little out of his room??
As someone at a location that is doing a lot of third party application
buying, yes we in some ways are crane operators and mechanics. But then comes the fun
of integrating the data from that new application into the remainder of the
It also seems that once the big canned application are up and running,
companies are outsourcing more and more the operations.
Those canned applications need to be integrated and that's the best and last
place where DBA and dev people can be today, in the BI place.
Here, in the architecture
Mladen,
There is another thing happening: companies are
more and more relying on
canned,
off the shelf applications, in a hope to become
compliant with present
standards.
That has dramatically cut down the number of needed
developers, because if
you don't
have to develop your general ledger,
There is another problem with canned applications. The damanagement has to
make a choice to either bend the business to match the application of bend the
application to match the business. From my point of view, the latter is happening
more than the former. Also, as a side note, I
An: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Betreff: RE: Nature of Oracle-l has changed
There is another thing happening: companies are more and more relying on
canned,
off the shelf applications, in a hope to become compliant with present
standards. That has dramatically cut down the number of needed
Well...I made the transition from development to DBA when we initially got
SAP'd (1993) partly because it looked interesting, partly because I was the
only one on the development staff who bothered to dig into the technical end
of things and...partly because management at the time had this
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
cc:
Subject:RE: Nature of Oracle-l has changed
OK, who let Chicken Little out of his room??
As someone at a location that is doing a lot of third party application buying, yes we in some ways are crane operators and mechanics. But then comes
Well, I wanted to add my .2 Cents here.
Custom development projects have shrunk over the past year because companies
are tired of the maintenance issues associated with custom applications.
More organizations are shifting their efforts towards implementing canned
solutions and taking the bite, as
PROTECTED]Sent: Friday, August 22, 2003
2:09 PMTo: Multiple recipients of list
ORACLE-LSubject: RE: Nature of Oracle-l has
changed I
believe the mantra needs to be "evolve and prosper, stagnate and
die". I've been thinking
along much the same li
We are in the middle of a development revolution here. It is being driven by a desire
to allow greater access to the Peoplesoft databases. The Peoplesoft folks want to
continue using those tools. But the folks that are responsible for the application
server which will connect to Psoft want
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