Re: Turtle (way of warrior) - who speaks for wolf?

2001-09-26 Thread Peggy Holman
I keep seeing polls that say something like 70-90% of Americans believe going to war is the right answer. I haven't heard that voice expressed here. Can someone speak that perspective from their heart? And can the rest of us be courageous enough to hold the space open for it? Who speaks for wol

Re: Turtle (way of warrior) - who speaks for wolf?

2001-09-26 Thread Michael Herman
i think we have to be careful what we assign that percentage to, peggy. i have not heard "70-90% favor *going to war*"...what i have heard is "70-90% favor *retaliation against those who have done these terrible acts*" or something to that effect. very different things. in such a complex situati

Re: Turtle (way of warrior) - who speaks for wolf?

2001-09-26 Thread Bert Hopkins
Peggy, Your request triggered me to share the poem that is on my door, one that my friend and I were reading aloud to one another up in the Olympics on the morning of the 11th before coming down the mountain to discover a changed world. Not sure if it answers your questions, but The Bloody S

Re: Turtle (way of warrior) - who speaks for wolf?

2001-09-26 Thread Peggy Holman
in Afghanistan, and more than seven out of 10 favor direct military action in Iraq. - Original Message - From: "Michael Herman" To: Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2001 12:03 PM Subject: Re: Turtle (way of warrior) - who speaks for wolf? > i think we have to be careful wh

Re: Turtle (way of warrior) - who speaks for wolf?

2001-09-26 Thread Winston Kinch
To: osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2001 7:13 PM Subject: Re: Turtle (way of warrior) - who speaks for wolf? The voice of wolf was missing in the council circle. Without that voice, a decision was made that led to great difficulty. Had wolf's voice been heard fr

Re: Turtle (way of warrior) - who speaks for wolf?

2001-09-26 Thread kenoli Oleari
This is amazing. I guess it shows what a sheltered life I lead. I have not talked to one person about this issue who supports war. Even my mother who is quite conservative opposes war. Are these figures really accurate? Can anyone who has read 1984 (which was after all a best seller) not imagi

Re: Turtle (way of warrior) - who speaks for wolf? Long reply

2001-09-27 Thread J. Paul Everett
Dear Peggy, et. al.; I guess I'll take on your inquiry, who speaks for wolf. I think on this list I'm likely of the wolf breed. In a private interchange with Michael Hermann, re: Mr. Krauthammer's column that I posted earlier, in which he wanted to clarify my views, I responded with the followin

Re: Turtle (way of warrior) - who speaks for wolf? Long reply

2001-09-26 Thread Toni Petrinovich
: "J. Paul Everett" To: Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2001 9:05 PM Subject: Re: Turtle (way of warrior) - who speaks for wolf? Long reply > Dear Peggy, et. al.; > > I guess I'll take on your inquiry, who speaks for wolf. I think on this list > I'm likely of the

Re: Turtle (way of warrior) - who speaks for wolf? Long reply

2001-09-27 Thread Michael Herman
thanks for your message(s) paul. a few comments, though... you wrote: <> i'm not sure that all of the people who advocate non-violence necessarily expect or desire a 'loving response.' the real question is how much damage, how many more innocent lives are we willing to sacrifice in order to be

Re: Turtle (way of warrior) - who speaks for wolf? Long reply

2001-09-27 Thread Michael Herman
this posting from a tibetan teacher makes some of my previous points in much more elegant language. the compassionate response need not be passive or even non-violent. indeed it might be as ruthless as shooting down a planeful of innocents, as this lama suggests. what it must, must, must be, how

Re: Turtle (way of warrior) - who speaks for wolf? Long reply

2001-09-27 Thread Barry Owen
Michael, I am in synch with much of what you have said in this post and others. I believe there must be some response from the US and the world. I agree that the president's "job" here is one that I cannot even fathom. It is easy for us to critique President Bush's actions and decisions . . . His

Re: Turtle (way of warrior) - who speaks for wolf? Long reply

2001-09-27 Thread Michael Herman
i hope you are right, too, barry. you know a lot more about things military than i ever will. i also recognize that the presence is necessary and (my guess) is perhaps more effective to *be* there than actually *use it* there. coming back to open space facilitation, it's about the *being* prese

Re: Turtle (way of warrior) - who speaks for wolf? Long reply

2001-09-27 Thread Chris Corrigan
Paul: Thanks for posting this, because it brings to mind a number of questions and helps me to clarify the change I see our worlkd currently swirling within. The problem I have with Michael Kelly's thinking is that it doesn't make sense anymore. We are indeed in a new world. What is "left-liber

Re: Turtle (way of warrior) - who speaks for wolf? Long reply

2001-09-27 Thread J. Paul Everett
In a message dated 9/26/01 9:49:05 PM, sac...@anacortes.net writes: << "We are on the verge of a global transformation. All we need is the right major crisis and the nations will accept the New World Order." David Rockefeller, speaking at the Business Council for the United Nations, September 1

Re: Turtle (way of warrior) - who speaks for wolf? Intersticial riposte to long reply

2001-09-27 Thread Winston Kinch
[see intersticial comments in parentheses below] Mr. Everett wrote in part: I guess I'll take on your inquiry, who speaks for wolf. I think on this list I'm likely of the wolf breed. In a private interchange with Michael Hermann, re: Mr. Krauthammer's column that I posted earlier, in whic

Re: Turtle (way of warrior) - who speaks for wolf? Intersticial riposte to long reply

2001-09-27 Thread Toni Petrinovich
listserv.boisestate.edu Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2001 6:29 AM Subject: Re: Turtle (way of warrior) - who speaks for wolf? Intersticial riposte to long reply [see intersticial comments in parentheses below] Mr. Everett wrote in part: I guess I'll take on your inquiry, w