Re: Entity Framework - the lay of the land

On Fri, 16 Sep 2016 at 09:55 David Apelt wrote: > What type of projects is EF not suitable for? > Ones that run on computers. *Mr Connors thinks back to all the times he's been told he is wrong on this list for saying ORMs and their ilk are sh!t* David. -- David Connors da...@connors.com | @d

Re: Entity Framework - the lay of the land

> > What type of projects is EF not suitable for? >> > Ones that run on computers. > What do you suggest as an alternative? *GK*

Re: Entity Framework - the lay of the land

On Fri, 16 Sep 2016 at 10:08 Greg Keogh wrote: > What type of projects is EF not suitable for? >>> >> Ones that run on computers. >> > > What do you suggest as an alternative? > Writing stored procedures. David. -- David Connors da...@connors.com | @davidconnors | LinkedIn | +61 417 189 363

Re: Entity Framework - the lay of the land

> > What do you suggest as an alternative? > > Writing stored procedures. > What about the classical problem of "impedance mismatch". You have to carefully maintain DataSets or similar and use DataAdapter to fill them, then writing data back is a circus trick with the ADO.NET classes. Then they in

Re: Entity Framework - the lay of the land

Using something like PetaPoco makes that pretty easy. > What about the classical problem of "impedance mismatch". You have to > carefully maintain DataSets or similar and use DataAdapter to fill them, > then writing data back is a circus trick with the ADO.NET classes. Then > they invented ORMs,

Re: Entity Framework - the lay of the land

On Fri, 16 Sep 2016 at 10:33 Greg Keogh wrote: > What do you suggest as an alternative? >> >> Writing stored procedures. >> > > What about the classical problem of "impedance mismatch". You have to > carefully maintain DataSets or similar and use DataAdapter to fill them, > then writing data back

RE: Entity Framework - the lay of the land

Or Dapper (https://github.com/StackExchange/dapper-dot-net) From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Craig van Nieuwkerk Sent: Friday, 16 September 2016 12:40 p.m. To: ozDotNet Subject: Re: Entity Framework - the lay of the land Using something

Re: Entity Framework - the lay of the land

> > Using something like PetaPoco makes that pretty easy. > Okay, I never saw that before. It's still and ORM, albeit a small one. At a glance at the home page, you're coding SQL statements inside code (tight coupling), it's not a LINQ provider at all, and it uses T4 templates (like EF does anyway

Re: Entity Framework - the lay of the land

I haven't had significant problems that I haven't been able to fix. That said, I think they're marking the current as Stable and just working on features of EF Core now, which isn't as complete by far yet. On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 10:40 AM, Craig van Nieuwkerk wrote: > Using something like PetaP

Re: Entity Framework - the lay of the land

They did it to reduce the number of errors found at runtime. The errors are found at compile time with orms. Dapper is another micro-orm that's worth looking at. On 16 Sep 2016 10:40 AM, "Craig van Nieuwkerk" wrote: > Using something like PetaPoco makes that pretty easy. > > > >> What about the

Re: Entity Framework - the lay of the land

PetaPoco or Dapper are not really an ORM like EF or NHibernate. You can write SQL or a stored proc and all it really does is map it to a POCO for ease of use in the C# code. I have not really touched a DataSet or DataAdapter directly for years. On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 10:51 AM, Greg Keogh wrote:

Re: Entity Framework - the lay of the land

Entertaining reply, as always David. [😊] made my morning. From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com on behalf of David Connors Sent: Friday, 16 September 2016 8:50:30 AM To: ozDotNet Subject: Re: Entity Framework - the lay of the land On Fri, 16 Sep 2016 at 10:33

Re: Entity Framework - the lay of the land

> > The people who think that ORMs are a good idea have a code-centric view of > the world. > Stored procs! Here's the black hole of the argument. To me it's a simple reductionist problem... Clean-shaven code-centric people write real-world apps. Beardy DBAs design databases. Coders need database

Re: Entity Framework - the lay of the land

Document/Object DBs are kind of the solution for that, however, they still need to be managed. Grow a beard and become "full-stack". On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 11:56 AM, Greg Keogh wrote: > The people who think that ORMs are a good idea have a code-centric view of >> the world. >> > > Stored procs

Re: Entity Framework - the lay of the land

Even full stack has its problems. It's that whole "generalist" vs "specialist" argument - sure you can do a bit of everything, but in doing that, can you actually devote yourself to becoming a master in something? Pretty hard to do. It's yet another flaw in Agile I think. And that said, that's what

Re: Entity Framework - the lay of the land

On Fri, 16 Sep 2016 at 11:56 Greg Keogh wrote: > The people who think that ORMs are a good idea have a code-centric view of >> the world. >> > > Stored procs! > I know, right? Finally, someone who shares my enthusiasm! [ ... ] > Databases are unlikely to have a structure that suits coders. >

Re: Entity Framework - the lay of the land

> > > >> What can bridge the "impedance" gap? Something has to. >> > > I agree. It is called effort. > Come on David ... *effort* into what exactly? What tool, technology, kit, gizmo? I need more detail. I'm a coder. I've got to drag stuff in and out of databases that I don't own and didn't design

Re: Entity Framework - the lay of the land

If your project has a database and you are not using a Database Project you are missing out, and causing yourself a lot of unnecessary pain. It basically just organises your schema files to make them easy to maintain, like cs files in a c# project. It has tools to do comparisons and schema updates

Re: Entity Framework - the lay of the land

On Fri, 16 Sep 2016 at 13:36 Greg Keogh wrote: > >> >>> What can bridge the "impedance" gap? Something has to. >>> >> >> I agree. It is called effort. >> > > Come on David ... *effort* into what exactly? What tool, technology, kit, > gizmo? I need more detail. I'm a coder. I've got to drag stuff

RE: Entity Framework - the lay of the land

com] On Behalf Of David Connors Sent: Friday, 16 September 2016 1:20 PM To: ozDotNet Subject: Re: Entity Framework - the lay of the land On Fri, 16 Sep 2016 at 11:56 Greg Keogh mailto:gfke...@gmail.com>> wrote: The people who think that ORMs are a good idea have a code-centric view of the

RE: Entity Framework - the lay of the land

zdotnet.com<mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com> [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of David Connors Sent: Friday, 16 September 2016 1:20 PM To: ozDotNet mailto:ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com>> Subject: Re: Entity Framework - the lay of the land On Fri, 16 Sep 2016 at 11:56 Greg

RE: Entity Framework - the lay of the land

ly-compiled stored procedure, it runs in 60 > milliseconds. > > > > If you are building toy apps ie: a replacement for CardFile, none of this > matters but I live in a world where it really, really matters. And so do > the vast majority of software houses that I spend time in. > >

Re: Entity Framework - the lay of the land

e between doing good work with our tools and having our tools do good work. Enjoy your weekend all! From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com on behalf of Greg Low (罗格雷格博士) Sent: Saturday, 17 September 2016 9:03:49 AM To: ozDotNet Subject: RE: Entity Framework - the

Re: Entity Framework - the lay of the land

___ From: Greg Low (罗格雷格博士) mailto:g...@greglow.com>> Sent: Saturday, September 17, 2016 11:11 AM Subject: RE: Entity Framework - the lay of the land To: ozDotNet mailto:ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com>> And if you have two days free on 28th/29th of this month, come and spend those days on

Re: Entity Framework - the lay of the land

GL If your table design matches your object design, at least one of them is a > poor design (again I'm talking about serious apps). > Then there's no hope. Game over man! It was easier for Jeff Goldblum to plug his laptop into an alien mothership that it is for coders and DBAs to exchange data ef

Re: Entity Framework - the lay of the land

How to bridge the app/db gap, simple, learn about your enemy & make her your friend. Cooperate, Communicate, Collaborate Sometimes it works ;-) -- noonie On 18 September 2016 at 14:28, Greg Keogh wrote: > GL > > If your table design matches your object design, at least one of them is a >>

Re: Entity Framework - the lay of the land

:-) Regards, Greg Dr Greg Low 1300SQLSQL (1300 775 775) office | +61 419201410 mobile│ +61 3 8676 4913 fax SQL Down Under | Web: www.sqldownunder.com On Sun, Sep 18, 2016 at 5:57 PM +1000, "noonie" mailto:neale.n...@gmail.com>> wrote: How to bridge the app/db g

Re: Entity Framework - the lay of the land

Simple examples are anything many to many. If I have passengers on flights, I might have a Flights table, a Passengers table and perhaps some sort of FlightManifests table (who's on which flights). But I sure wouldn't want those three as objects. I'd probably want a Passenger object with a Flig

RE: Entity Framework - the lay of the land

et-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Greg Low (??) Sent: Sunday, 18 September 2016 11:47 AM To: ozDotNet Subject: Re: Entity Framework - the lay of the land Three other key aspects of this: If your table design matches your object design, at least one of

Re: Entity Framework - the lay of the land

> > I had an argument internally that caching was good, with the alternate > side saying that “cache invalidation” was hard so they never use it. > I think it is "hard" but don't write it off completely. Search for "second level cache" and you'll see it's not that trivial to use properly. Some ORM

RE: Entity Framework - the lay of the land

: Entity Framework - the lay of the land I had an argument internally that caching was good, with the alternate side saying that “cache invalidation” was hard so they never use it. I think it is "hard" but don't write it off completely. Search for "second level cache"

Re: Entity Framework - the lay of the land

hing functionlity and probably never will. > > > > - Glav > > > > *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-bounces@ > ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *Greg Keogh > *Sent:* Monday, 19 September 2016 10:38 AM > *To:* ozDotNet > *Subject:* Re: Entity Framework - t

Re: Entity Framework - the lay of the land

Correct, in a web app for example, you can often do very short lived caching for the life of a request. On Mon, Sep 19, 2016 at 11:39 AM, Tony Wright wrote: > I do like caching. And you often don't need to cache for very long anyway > to get significant benefits. > T. > >

RE: Entity Framework - the lay of the land

ay, 19 September 2016 11:44 AM To: ozDotNet Subject: Re: Entity Framework - the lay of the land Correct, in a web app for example, you can often do very short lived caching for the life of a request. On Mon, Sep 19, 2016 at 11:39 AM, Tony Wright mailto:tonyw...@gmail.com>> wrote: I do like cach

Re: Entity Framework - the lay of the land

On Mon, 19 Sep 2016 at 10:38 Greg Keogh wrote: > I had an argument internally that caching was good, with the alternate >> side saying that “cache invalidation” was hard so they never use it. >> > I think it is "hard" but don't write it off completely. Search for "second > level cache" and you'll

RE: Entity Framework - the lay of the land

: www.sqldownunder.com<http://www.sqldownunder.com/> | http://greglow.me<http://greglow.me/> From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of David Connors Sent: Monday, 19 September 2016 12:34 PM To: ozDotNet Subject: Re: Entity Framework - the lay of

Re: Entity Framework - the lay of the land

ction idea... From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com on behalf of Greg Low (罗格雷格博士) Sent: Monday, 19 September 2016 11:06:05 AM To: ozDotNet Subject: RE: Entity Framework - the lay of the land I remember many years ago, connecting the devs to the DB via a dial-up

RE: Entity Framework - the lay of the land

er.com/> | http://greglow.me<http://greglow.me/> From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Stephen Price Sent: Monday, 19 September 2016 1:50 PM To: ozDotNet Subject: Re: Entity Framework - the lay of the land While on the topic of databases

RE: Entity Framework - the lay of the land

might be available. From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Greg Low (??) Sent: Monday, 19 September 2016 3:23 PM To: ozDotNet Subject: RE: Entity Framework - the lay of the land People always use banks as the canonical example, but I had one at

RE: Entity Framework - the lay of the land

zdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Ken Schaefer Sent: Monday, 19 September 2016 5:15 PM To: ozDotNet Subject: RE: Entity Framework - the lay of the land A large bank (like one of the Big4 in Aus) has a staggering number of applications. Even running what yo

RE: Entity Framework - the lay of the land

, then why has yours worked where others have failed. Regards Dave A From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Greg Low (??) Sent: Monday, September 19, 2016 5:47 PM To: ozDotNet Subject: RE: Entity Framework - the lay of the land Agreed Ken

Re: Entity Framework - the lay of the land

Not EF but have used NHibernate in application, in conjunction with optimised SQL where required, and easily supported 1000+ users. But it is very easy to stuff it up and find you can't support 5 simultaneous users. Even StackOverflow before it used Dapper used LinqToSql. Of course, they had to op

Re: Entity Framework - the lay of the land

To give more info, 99% of the CUD was done via NHibernate. For simple select queries like for lookup lists was also done via NHibernate, using the built in caching and Redis cache, but more complicated queries were straight SQL and PetaPoco. Craig On Tue, Sep 20, 2016 at 1:30 PM, Craig van Nieuwk

Re: Entity Framework - the lay of the land

Entity Framework was born out of many attempts to solve the DAL tier to enable developers to have to avoid talking to DBA's directly. The amount of churn its gone through and the level of pain it rewards doesn't seem imho to justify its adoption. As for forgotten child. I can't speak to the progra

RE: Entity Framework - the lay of the land

6 1:33 PM To: ozDotNet Subject: Re: Entity Framework - the lay of the land To give more info, 99% of the CUD was done via NHibernate. For simple select queries like for lookup lists was also done via NHibernate, using the built in caching and Redis cache, but more complicated queries were straight SQL a

RE: Entity Framework - the lay of the land

ty Framework - the lay of the land Entity Framework was born out of many attempts to solve the DAL tier to enable developers to have to avoid talking to DBA's directly. The amount of churn its gone through and the level of pain it rewards doesn't seem imho to justify its adoption. As

Re: Entity Framework - the lay of the land

et.com] *On Behalf Of *Scott Barnes > *Sent:* Tuesday, 20 September 2016 1:42 PM > *To:* ozDotNet > *Subject:* Re: Entity Framework - the lay of the land > > > > Entity Framework was born out of many attempts to solve the DAL tier to > enable developers to have to avoid talkin

Re: Entity Framework - the lay of the land

On Tue, 20 Sep 2016 at 13:59 Greg Low (罗格雷格博士) wrote: > I often get coy when I hear comparisons with Stack Overflow, Twitter, > Facebook, Blog Engines, etc. though. > > Most of those platforms are happy to just throw away transactions when the > going gets heavy. > Also, most of their workloads a

Re: Entity Framework - the lay of the land

I've been working with EF now for a few years, here's a list of what went wrong / what went right. *Large public Website* *Good:* No complex queries in EF, anything more than a couple of tables and a stored procedure is called. All objects from EF were transformed into new objects for us

RE: Entity Framework - the lay of the land

ttp://www.sqldownunder.com/> | http://greglow.me<http://greglow.me/> From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of David Rhys Jones Sent: Tuesday, 20 September 2016 7:20 PM To: ozDotNet Subject: Re: Entity Framework - the lay of the land I've

Re: Entity Framework - the lay of the land

...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-bounces@ > ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *David Rhys Jones > *Sent:* Tuesday, 20 September 2016 7:20 PM > *To:* ozDotNet > *Subject:* Re: Entity Framework - the lay of the land > > > > > > I've been working with EF now for a few ye

RE: Entity Framework - the lay of the land

net-boun...@ozdotnet.com<mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com> [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com<mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com>] On Behalf Of David Rhys Jones Sent: Tuesday, 20 September 2016 7:20 PM To: ozDotNet mailto:ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com>> Subject: Re: Entity Framework

Re: Entity Framework - the lay of the land

Oh boy, this is a technique I see way underutilised when using EF: /All objects from EF were transformed into new objects for use in the website /e.g. If I just want a high level list of the product categories a customer has purchased, it's far too easily get stuck in a rigid thought pattern

Re: Entity Framework - the lay of the land

Of *David Rhys Jones > *Sent:* Tuesday, 20 September 2016 8:03 PM > > *To:* ozDotNet > *Subject:* Re: Entity Framework - the lay of the land > > > > > > That's still the best way to update something > > > > Get the object first, then update that referen

Re: Entity Framework - the lay of the land

I'll jump in with my experience (just last year). Using EF7 (EF Core 1.0 now?) I always disliked EF version but I liked the original Linq2Sql which was quite lightweight compared to EF. 1. Database design and DTO design is very very strictly monitored and mapping Table > Entity is very stri

Re: Entity Framework - the lay of the land

>> SQL Functions suck. Oh my, they suck and they are hard to fix and cumbersome to figure out where perf is bad. I agree, don't use SQL functions in where clauses, joins or aggregates. It's ok to use if you have a small dataset but otherwise steer clear. Davy *Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditi

Re: Entity Framework - the lay of the land

It's not SQL functions per se but scalar T-SQL functions. They should be inlined like table-valued functions can often be, but they aren't. Regards, Greg Dr Greg Low 1300SQLSQL (1300 775 775) office | +61 419201410 mobile│ +61 3 8676 4913 fax SQL Down Under | Web: www.sqldownunder.com

Re: Entity Framework - the lay of the land

We often rewrite the queries to use TVFs instead Regards, Greg Dr Greg Low 1300SQLSQL (1300 775 775) office | +61 419201410 mobile│ +61 3 8676 4913 fax SQL Down Under | Web: www.sqldownunder.com On Wed, Sep 21, 2016 at 10:35 PM +1000, "David Rhys Jones" mailto:d

RE: Entity Framework - the lay of the land

Caveat: this is for winforms line of business applications. _ From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Kirsten Greed Sent: Saturday, 1 October 2016 6:35 AM To: 'ozDotNet' Subject: Entity Framework - the lay of the land My 2c Horses for

RE: Entity Framework - the lay of the land

: www.sqldownunder.com<http://www.sqldownunder.com/> | http://greglow.me<http://greglow.me/> From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Kirsten Greed Sent: Saturday, 1 October 2016 6:42 AM To: 'ozDotNet' Subject: RE: Entity Framework - the lay of

RE: Entity Framework - the lay of the land

: Saturday, 1 October 2016 12:40 PM To: ozDotNet Subject: RE: Entity Framework - the lay of the land Agreed but not websites with thousands of concurrent users. The problem is that people don't realise that the same logic doesn't apply in both areas. Regards, Greg D

Re: Entity Framework - the lay of the land

cheers Stephen From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com on behalf of Kirsten Greed Sent: Saturday, 1 October 2016 5:26:33 PM To: 'ozDotNet' Subject: RE: Entity Framework - the lay of the land That makes sense It would be good to have some guidelines about where the cut over point is. Al

Re: Entity Framework - the lay of the land

guidelines about where the cut over point is. > > Also whether solutions like NService Bus could mitigate the use of EF ? > > > ---------------------- > *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-bounces@ > ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *Greg Low (??) > *

Re: Entity Framework - the lay of the land

gt; cheers > > Stephen > ------------------ > *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com on > behalf of Kirsten Greed > *Sent:* Saturday, 1 October 2016 5:26:33 PM > > *To:* 'ozDotNet' > *Subject:* RE: Entity Framework - the lay of the land > > Th

Re: Entity Framework - the lay of the land

otnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com on behalf of Corneliu I. Tusnea Sent: Tuesday, 4 October 2016 9:36:09 AM To: ozDotNet Subject: Re: Entity Framework - the lay of the land Stephen, My 2 cents without seeing the query. 1. Try to make a view that groups your main table with the detail table to calculate

RE: Entity Framework - the lay of the land

: www.sqldownunder.com<http://www.sqldownunder.com/> | http://greglow.me<http://greglow.me/> From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Corneliu I. Tusnea Sent: Tuesday, 4 October 2016 12:36 PM To: ozDotNet Subject: Re: Entity Framework - the lay of the l

RE: Entity Framework - the lay of the land

775 775) office | +61 419201410 mobile│ +61 3 8676 4913 > fax > > SQL Down Under | Web: www.sqldownunder.com | http://greglow.me > > > > *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-bounces@ > ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *Corneliu I. Tusnea > *Sent:* Tuesday, 4 October 2016 12:3

Re: Entity Framework - the lay of the land

ore you've finished with it. Premature evaluation. cheers Stephen From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com on behalf of Greg Low (罗格雷格博士) Sent: Tuesday, 4 October 2016 11:22:41 AM To: ozDotNet Subject: RE: Entity Framework - the lay of the land There is a certain

Re: Entity Framework - the lay of the land

Preach on. On 16 Sep. 2016 10:50 am, "David Connors" wrote: > On Fri, 16 Sep 2016 at 10:33 Greg Keogh wrote: > >> What do you suggest as an alternative? >>> >>> Writing stored procedures. >>> >> >> What about the classical problem of "impedance mismatch". You have to >> carefully maintain DataS

Re: Entity Framework - the lay of the land

pp executes in 26 > seconds. If I move the table to in-memory, it runs in 25.5 seconds. If I > move the code to a natively-compiled stored procedure, it runs in 60 > milliseconds. > > > > If you are building toy apps ie: a replacement for CardFile, none of this > matters

Re: Entity Framework - the lay of the land

Hi Grant et al, You're psychic, as I was going to post on this old topic later in the week, as I've rejigged my thinking a little in recent months. I also used CodeSmith to make CRUD for a few good years and I was impressed by how easy it was. I used the netTiers templates, not handmade. What I l

Re: Entity Framework - the lay of the land

I have used Entity Framework myself but generally simply map to stored procs. Some Linq occasionally creeps in, but the biggest gripe I have with EF is the lazy loading. It can get nasty very quickly generating ridiculous amounts of unnecessary traffic as it loads every linked object it comes acros

Re: Entity Framework - the lay of the land

> > >turn off lazy loading and use eager loading instead. > Hell yeah! > Stored procs are best, of course, as it's often much easier to get stored > proc changes through change control in enterprises than code changes in an > app, which requires virtually a compete redeploy. > Mostly hell yeah,

Re: Entity Framework - the lay of the land

On Tue., 3 Jan. 2017, 7:16 pm Greg Keogh, wrote: > What I liked about netTiers was that the CRUD was basically table-based > and not over-engineered like many famous ORMs (including EF) and it just > threw a really handy bridge at the lowest useful level between classes and > tables. Maybe even D

RE: Entity Framework - the lay of the land

om: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Greg Keogh Sent: Tuesday, 3 January 2017 8:16 PM To: ozDotNet Subject: Re: Entity Framework - the lay of the land Hi Grant et al, You're psychic, as I was going to post on this old topic later in the week,

Re: Entity Framework - the lay of the land

On Tue., 3 Jan. 2017, 8:07 pm David Connors, wrote: > On Tue., 3 Jan. 2017, 7:16 pm Greg Keogh, wrote: > > Maybe even David C wouldn't turn his nose up at that?! > > > I probably would. But I have a very different set of drivers to most > everyobe else in this thread. > Except for Greg Low. -

RE: Entity Framework - the lay of the land

> > *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-bounces@ > ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *Greg Keogh > *Sent:* Tuesday, 3 January 2017 8:16 PM > *To:* ozDotNet > *Subject:* Re: Entity Framework - the lay of the land > > > > Hi Grant et al, > > > > Yo