At 20/06/01 19:43 -0700, Michael Perelman wrote:
>I suspect that everybody is talking past one another. Mark seemed to be
>closest to the target referring to the combined and uneven nature of
>colonial economies -- They have elements of all sorts of ancient
>formations turned to a capitalist pur
> From: "Mark Jones" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To:<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> All talk of articulated modes etc, simply misses the point;
> and this is why we insist on (a) uneven and combiend development as the
> characteristic dynamic, the key word being *development* and the key
> de
>Here are Elvin's concluding thoughts on the way the premodern
>Chinese economy was locked in. He says, first, it became "locked-
>in to the patterns in which its technology interacted with the
>environment."
>
>This, and some of the other passages cited before, do suggest that
>Elvin's concept of
Ricardo says:
> > Your caveat ("only as far as political or hegemonic questions are
>> concerned") makes L&M sound more reasonable than otherwise, but if
>> that's the line of inquiry, why not Lenin, Mao, Gramsci, Althusser, or
>> any number of other Marxists?
>
>Because the very intention of
Legacy of Socialism Keeps China's State Firms in Red
Reform of Large Industrial Giants Slowing
By John Pomfret
Washington Post Foreign Service
Wednesday, June 20, 2001; Page A01
CHONGQING, China -- The Chongqing Iron and Steel Group, a massive
steel mill complex on the banks of the Yangtze Rive
[NYT]
June 21, 2001
U.S. Courts Become Arbiters of Global Rights and Wrongs
By WILLIAM GLABERSON
Last year, five Chinese natives sued the former Chinese prime
minister, Li Peng, in an American court for his role in the Tiananmen
Square crackdown that killed hundreds of civilians in Beijing.
Whi
I suspect that everybody is talking past one another. Mark seemed to be
closest to the target referring to the combined and uneven nature of
colonial economies -- They have elements of all sorts of ancient
formations turned to a capitalist purpose.
I myself work in a feudal institution. You can
These figures should be adjusted to take into account that people are
leaving the countryside -- maybe not so much in Chile -- and going to the
cities, where wages -- except for the informal sector -- should be a
greater part of labor's income.
> Louis Proyect <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>
> >In the Ju
G'day Justin and Leo,
I'd consider myself a radical democrat. And I'd go so far as to believe
liberal democracy is a fine thing. I even suspect that the process of of
giving the formalism that is liberal democracy the substance it needs actually
to realise itself is the socialist project in a p
Special from THE PROGRESSIVE POPULIST www.populist.com
July 15th issue
=
Burying Health Care in "Supervisors":
The Supremes Screw Unions Once Again
==
By Nathan Newman
The recent Supreme Court decision, NLRB v. Kentucky River Com
> Argentinian indymedia
> http://argentina.indymedia.org/
> is comparing the situation in Gral. Mosconi to the military dictatorship.
> Can comrades from Argentina give us an update, what is going on?
> Johannes
Yes, dear Johannes. The situation is getting worse by the minutes. But at
thesame tim
>Mark:
>>nevertheless was already a totality. Without this particular totality,
>>capitalism could never haved 'emerged' in the 'English countryside' or
>>anyone else specific.
>
>You know, the other night I saw a film that I reviewed here. It was called
>"Life and Death". I didn't want to give aw
Louis Proyect <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>In the July-August 1999 MR, a special issue on the "state of the world",
>there are articles by James Petras on Latin America and Stanislav Menshikov
>on Russia that include interesting statistics on the wage share of national
>income and GDP respectively (migh
Mark:
>nevertheless was already a totality. Without this particular totality,
>capitalism could never haved 'emerged' in the 'English countryside' or
>anyone else specific.
You know, the other night I saw a film that I reviewed here. It was called
"Life and Death". I didn't want to give away the
Mark says:
>Yoshie Furuhashi:
>
>> With regard to the early days of modern colonialism (when capitalist
>> relations were in the process of emergence), it's possible to speak
>> of two or more modes of production confronting one another
>
>I don't see any meaningful sense in which this is true
Of course, from a scientific perspective, Edgeworth has already shown that
since the rich know how to extract utility from money in ways that are
superior to the poor, they should get the most $$ to -> max utility. QED.
On Wed, Jun 20, 2001 at 07:51:21PM -0500, Margaret Coleman wrote:
> (dear ev
(dear everyone -- please read the following with extreme sarcasm, I don't want
to start a flame war)
Dear Mr. Devine, It has come to our attention that you seem to feel that the
worker who lost a hand and who has contracted asbestosis has been slighted in
favor of the CEO of the utility in questio
>Yoshie Furuhashi wrote:
>
>>Geography must have been a far larger nodal point under
>>pre-capitalist modes of production than under capitalism. That
>>said, what's possible within the geography of Russia is certainly
>>much more constrained than within the geography of the former USSR
>>or s
Leo, first of all, this is your first post in a while with the
bad formatting. I don't know what you did to fix it before, but
please revert to what you were doing.
Second, the style of this post poisons further discussion. I
agree that the previous style have been unproductive. I have
comment
Leo:
>As I think Jim D. and
>Chris B. have pointed out, this confuses the conceptual abstraction [mode of
>production] with the social reality [social formation].
I agree with you on the importance of the conceptual distinction above.
>Likewise, we should
>not assume that the relationship is ne
Wednesday June 20, 4:28 pm Eastern Time
Poor Nations Want Lax Drug Rules
Developing Countries Say World Trade Rules for Drug Patents Should Be
More Flexible to Combat AIDS
By JONATHAN FOWLER
Associated Press Writer
GENEVA (AP) -- World trade rules protecting drug patents should be
made more flexi
>It's not a matter of typology but a question of historical
>transformation. Everyone here agrees that the area that came to be
>South Africa wasn't always capitalist; again, everyone here agrees
>that South Africa is now capitalist.
>
>Yoshie
Not everybody agrees in the same way. I made th
I agree entirely. That's what makes the fetishism so enduring. I suspect
that part of the fetishism is also its uncanny ability, when cornered, to
disguise itself as a *mere phantasm*.
Jim Devine wrote,
>While capitalist domination in social relations requires the fetishism of
>commodities th
Yoshie:
Despite the formalism of anthropological typologies, I think Matthew's
contribution is helpful to our understanding of the South African social
formation under apartheid in the following way. When we talk of the
articulation of different modes of production, we should not be talking as
China's system was sustainable. All nutrients (virtually) returned to the
land. You may want to look at an old book by King, Farmers of 40
Centuries.
On Wed, Jun 20, 2001 at 09:21:47PM +0100, Mark Jones wrote:
> Ricardo Duchesne:
>
> >.but China's intensive
> > agrarian growth was ultimately
Ricardo Duchesne:
>.but China's intensive
> agrarian growth was ultimately unsustainable.
>
I'm still having problems with how an agriculture which has sustained itself
for several millennia can be called ultimately unsustainable, but I suspect
I haven't been paying close enough attention to yo
Tom interprets Marx as saying:
> What capitalist domination in social relations requires is that people come
> to regard ownership as a relationship between a person and a thing.
While capitalist domination in social relations requires the fetishism of
commodities that obscures class relations
I haven't read the debate for a long time, and I can't recall the details.
But I did read the _whole_ debate, and L&M's book, too, quite carefully.
However, this isn't going anywhere unless someone starts posting arguments
rather that confessio fidei about which arguments they liked. I take it,
>Sorry if this repeats what others have said, I've been out of town and haven't
>read everything.
>
>An important point in the debates in Marxist anthropology and the
>"articulation
>of modes of production" debates regards a tension between the analysis of
>precapitalist modes of production, usua
rence Board said while the index predicted the economic slowdown
> early last year, business activity is starting to improve (Lisi de
> Bourbon, Associated Press, http://www.nypost.com/apstories/V7992.htm;
> http://www.latimes.com/wires/20010620/tCB00V7987.html;
> http://www.nandotimes.com
Tom Walker wrote:
>
> Jim Devine wrote,
>
> >Tom translates Marx:
>
> I merely transcribed that which Ben Fowkes translated.
>
Herein lies a dissertation for some bibliographer of the 23rd century.
Ben Fowkes is listed as the translator of the CW 34 text, which is what
I queried. And the tr
Anyone have more info?
(And not about, Balvanera from alt.politics.socialism.trotsky!)
Michael Pugliese
- Original Message -
From: "Lev Trotsky" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Lisa" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Teemu Luojola" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Abel Mouton"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Dr. Larry Murdoc
Sorry if this repeats what others have said, I've been out of town and haven't
read everything.
An important point in the debates in Marxist anthropology and the "articulation
of modes of production" debates regards a tension between the analysis of
precapitalist modes of production, usually base
THIRD INTERNATIONAL WORKSHOP ON INSTITUTIONAL ECONOMICS
Hertford Campus, University of Hertfordshire, UK
4-7 September 2001
"Understanding Economic Institutions: Theory, Methodology and
Illustrations "
REMINDER - ESPECIALLY FOR APPLICANTS FOR REDUCED WORKSHOP FEES
Speakers at this workshop wi
I don't think it will come as a surprise to anyone here that I think Laclau
and Mouffe [she was a full partner in _Hegemony and Socialist Strategy_,
and in the response to Geras] wiped the floor with Geras. In addition to
his rather crude and reductionist conception of materialism, Geras' review
w
http://www.nisto.com/petrol/background.html
Thad,
There is a bit about this. I think the best is the chapter titled
"Demand" in Robin Marris' book, THE THEORY OF MANAGERIAL CAPITALISM -or
something close to that title. Great stuff that you won't find elsewhere.
The other way to look at it is the work on how commodities are hab
Jim Devine wrote,
>Tom translates Marx:
I merely transcribed that which Ben Fowkes translated.
>I interpret this as saying that capitalist power -- capitalist domination
>in social relations -- requires the ownership of actual physical means of
>production, so that capitalism really takes hol
from SLATE:
>Hats off to the [Wall Street JOURNAL] for rubbing its readers' noses in a
>dirty little business secret: Perhaps worse than the income gap between
>worker and king bees is the pension gap between them. The story starts
>with a contrast/compare between a worker and
>the CEO at a Flo
Tom translates Marx:
>"This is why we find in the capitalist process of production this
>*indissoluble fusion* of use-values in which capital subsists in the form of
>the *means of production* and *objects* defined as capital, when what we are
>really faced with is a definite social relationship o
> Your caveat ("only as far as political or hegemonic questions are
> concerned") makes L&M sound more reasonable than otherwise, but if
> that's the line of inquiry, why not Lenin, Mao, Gramsci, Althusser, or
> any number of other Marxists?
Because the very intention of *Hegemony*, and I think
imagine my surprise: it turns out the my version of Internet Explorer has
Firestone tires...
Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] & http://bellarmine.lmu.edu/~jdevine
> I don't have to agree with Geras' total philosophy to see that his
> attacks on L&M's arguments are effective and well-founded. He does
> rather go at it with a shovel rather than a scapel, but when he's
> done, they're buried.
Did you read Laclau's response to Geras's long review of
Hegem
We are looking at some World Bank data on "adult
mortality." They describe their data as showing
mortality per 1000 people. But the numbers seem
way to high, e.g. 130 per 1000 for the U.S. We
have not been able to find anywhere a precise
description of what this really means, nor find
anyone at th
>
>
> > >You have to admit Laclau fried Geras in his response. Wood
> > >simply misunderstood what Laclau was about.
> >
> > No you don't. I thought that it was quitew the other way around.
>
>I thought you were a pragmatist and not a crude materialist which
>was the philosophical stand from whic
> >You have to admit Laclau fried Geras in his response. Wood
> >simply misunderstood what Laclau was about.
>
> No you don't. I thought that it was quitew the other way around.
I thought you were a pragmatist and not a crude materialist which
was the philosophical stand from which Geras att
Louis Proyect writes:
>...If you think that the miners were a true proletariat than [sic] you
>[Leo Casey] have a different theory than the one being defended by Jim
>Devine ...
As indicated by a large number of pen-l posts, you do not know what my
position is (or is willfully misrepresenting
>
> > There have been only two serious criticism written of Laclau &
> > Mouffe-- one by Geras and the other by Wood.
>
>You have to admit Laclau fried Geras in his response. Wood
>simply misunderstood what Laclau was about.
No you don't. I thought that it was quitew the other way around.
>
>T
Here are Elvin's concluding thoughts on the way the premodern
Chinese economy was locked in. He says, first, it became "locked-
in to the patterns in which its technology interacted with the
environment."
This, and some of the other passages cited before, do suggest that
Elvin's concept of "te
The following post may be of interest to subscribers. I can discuss the position
informally if
anyone wants more information.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
National University of Ireland,
Galway
Lectureship in Economics
The D
<< Leo, you are correct that Lou should not have characterized your views.
Please don't throw fuel on the fire. >>
Michael:
I do not think that the problem here is one of "characterizing" views. I
certainly have described my own position as "post-Marxist" and closely
connected to the analysis
Other directions that do not engage the
utility lit are transactions costs and
'specific human capital in the firm,' the
latter a fancy way of saying you develop
specialized knowledge in a particular job
that is not transferable. So if you lose
that job you command a lower wage (all
other things
> BUREAU OF LABOR STATISTICS, TUESDAY, JUNE 19, 2001:
>
> RELEASED TODAY: Regional and state unemployment rates were generally
> stable in May. All four regions reported little or no change from April
> and 44 states and the District of Columbia recorded shifts of 0.3
> percentage point or less
> Ricardo quotes:
>
> The passage I sent from Laclau and Mouffe's *Hegemony* might
> create the misleading impression - as this book in general did
> among all Marxists - that L&M were advocating a totally contingent
> view. The following passage clarifies their position: "The problem of
> pow
In the July-August 1999 MR, a special issue on the "state of the world",
there are articles by James Petras on Latin America and Stanislav Menshikov
on Russia that include interesting statistics on the wage share of national
income and GDP respectively (might be the same thing?). In Latin America,
Yoshie:
> Why, though, should it have occurred to the direct producers,
> imperial bureaucrats, sovereigns, etc. of "large-scale premodern
> hydraulic systems" to direct "a significant proportion of the economic
> surplus" to "other ends"? Maybe they didn't have practical "other
> ends." Maybe
Ricardo quotes:
The passage I sent from Laclau and Mouffe's *Hegemony* might
create the misleading impression - as this book in general did
among all Marxists - that L&M were advocating a totally contingent
view. The following passage clarifies their position: "The problem of
power cannot, th
The version in the appendix to capital [p. 983] translates it differently
and as two sentences:
"This is why we find in the capitalist process of production this
*indissoluble fusion* of use-values in which capital subsists in the form of
the *means of production* and *objects* defined as capital
>There is really a lot of similarity between Jones & Proyect, Laclau and
>Mouffe. What holds all four together is their rejection of historical
>analysis in favor of moral condemnation and replacement of history by
>just-so stories.
>
>Carrol
Historical analysis? So what is your analysis of the m
Leo:
> If I had to locate myself on the terrain of theories of power
> relations, I would define myself, following Laclau and Mouffe, as a
> post-Marxist, rather than a Marxist, precisely because I do not see
> power relations as an unified, closed field, defined by some primary,
> essential contr
> There have been only two serious criticism written of Laclau &
> Mouffe-- one by Geras and the other by Wood.
You have to admit Laclau fried Geras in his response. Wood
simply misunderstood what Laclau was about.
To attack Wood is to
> praise Laclau. Either/Or. Also, any attack on Wood i
Penners
Recent discussions involving the British state, Thatcherism and the defence
industry touched on the Westland affair, which, so soon after the miners'
strike ended in 1985, came closest to toppling Thatcher prior to the Tory
putsch in 1990 that saw her off thanks to her rigid attachment to
I've been in Zimbabwe the past five days -- and as a result, I'll
come back to you folks for advice on debt workouts! -- and just saw
this compelling thread...
> Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 07:49:02 +0100
> From: Chris Burford <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Jim Devine:
> >Interesting. Very
Sir Michael Hanley
Secret service chief who shifted MI5's interest from
Soviet agents to leftwingers nearer home
Richard Norton-Taylor
Guardian
Saturday January 6, 2001
Sir Michael Hanley, who has died aged 82, was appointed director-general of
MI5 in 1972, at a time when the agency was consu
University torn apart by £3.8m tobacco deal
Lecturers quit in protest at Nottingham's 'humiliating' link
with BAT but vice-chancellor remains defiant
By Sarah Cassidy Education Correspondent
19 June 2001
An English university is facing accusations that it has sold its
good reputation for
Prisons 'choked by budget demands'
Chief inspector's leaving speech warns of cult of managerialism
Alan Travis, home affairs editor
Wednesday June 20, 2001
The Guardian
The government's "cult of managerialism" has led to a bureaucratic overload
that has swamped Britain's prison governors, the
Jim Devine explains:
In context, what I was asking (not asserting) was about the possibility
that many or most single-issue causes start out simply as that, as
single-issue causes. The skilled workers are concerned about the
incompetence of the managers and how they're trying to de-skill the
Not having had a chance to look at Thaler's book, I can recommend two
general literatures: the discrepancy between willingness to pay (WTP) and
willingness to accept (WTA), and prospect theory, going back to the classic
article by Kahnemann & Tversky (1979). In the second case, the undefined
refe
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