At 09:47 PM 01/24/2001 -0800, you wrote:
Michael P. wrote:
As a person, he [Milken] was probably no more evil than many people
around Wall Street. I assume that was an important part of Doug's
original point. But he did also help fraudulent deals in which pension
money was scooped up to be
Yoshie Furuhashi wrote:
Wasn't the problem the Garn-St. Germain Depository Institutions Act
of 1982, which made it possible for the Savings Loan industry to
make risky investments? A problem of deregulation, the impetus
toward which came from higher interest rates, which in turn were
caused by
In response to Jim Devine:
Whether Milken was operating a Ponzi scheme is an empirical question. There
is no evidence that he was. It wasn't like Milken was raising money to lend
money to people lending money to people lending money ad infinitum. Milken
was raising money for entrepeneurs who
David Shemano wrote:
As part of the 1982 banking deregulation, the Congress in its infinite
wisdom permitted savings and loans to invest in whatever they wanted, and
at the same time increased deposit insurance to $100,000. As a result,
[some] depositors put their money wherever they got the
]]On Behalf Of Michael Perelman
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2001 5:54 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [PEN-L:7227] Re: RE: Re: Free Mike!
The most famous case was Charles Hurwitz. Pension funds were removed to
use in speculation, replaced by one provided by an insurance company that
flopped.
David S. wrote:
In response to Jim Devine:
Whether Milken was operating a Ponzi scheme is an empirical question.
Exactly: I'll let Doug others answer this in greater detail.
There is no evidence that he was.
My point is that he may have been doing so without knowing it.
It wasn't like
I understand David's point about the importance of opening up finance, but the
junk bond revolution was not a good way to do it. First, it has saddled firms
with a higher level of debt, which has increased general financial fragility and
also tends (ceteris paribus) to shorten firms' planning
Slobodan wrote:
I have a friend who is a rabbi and knows Milken. He is impressed with him
because he gives lots of money to various Jewish charities apparently,
some of which would probably not be approved of by many on this list
because of their links to Israel. But, I gather his charitable
The Wall St. Journal, Apr. 26, 1990, On What Milken Pleaded Do
He Admits Cheating Clients And Plotting With Boesky To Assist a Posner Raid
---
Teary Scene in the Courtroom
By Laurie P. Cohen
Staff Reporter of The Wall Street Journal
NEW YORK -- He was almost at the end of a detailed
Michael Perelman wrote:
Stewart is a better place to look for what Milken did.
Stewart, James B. 1991. Den of Thieves (NY: Simon and Schuster).
183: "Because of extraordinary control over the junk bond market, Milken
could buy back securities at artificially low prices from Drexel clients
who
I don't think that Milken was much worse than most of them. He just saw an
opportunity and he took it. The crime here was that he sold the junk bonds to
people, misleading them that there was a market. Instead, he set the price
himself. Stewart explains how he could pull it off.
Doug Henwood
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/24/01 10:08AM
Michael Perelman wrote:
Stewart is a better place to look for what Milken did.
Stewart, James B. 1991. Den of Thieves (NY: Simon and Schuster).
183: "Because of extraordinary control over the junk bond market, Milken
could buy back securities at
Charles Brown wrote:
Isn't this sort of a matter of a barrier to entry into the
capitalist class ? The ruling class is a closed club. Milken's crime
was joining the ruling class without permission, introduction, going
through some rite of passage.
He tried to join. He wasn't welcome. The
on.
David Shemano
-
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Michael Perelman
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2001 8:02 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [PEN-L:7213] Re: Free Mike!
I don't think that Milken was
Both David and Doug say that his clients did not complain. What about
those whose pension funds were used in his schemes?
I don't think that Milken was worse than Kravis, Boesky or the others. I
would have cheered to have seen them all punished.
--
Michael Perelman
Economics Department
]]On Behalf Of Michael Perelman
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2001 5:42 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [PEN-L:7225] Re: Free Mike!
Both David and Doug say that his clients did not complain. What about
those whose pension funds were used in his schemes?
I don't think that Milken was worse than Kravis
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [PEN-L:7225] Re: Free Mike!
Both David and Doug say that his clients did not complain. What about
those whose pension funds were used in his schemes?
I don't think that Milken was worse than Kravis, Boesky or the others. I
would have cheered to have seen
:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Michael Perelman
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2001 5:54 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [PEN-L:7227] Re: RE: Re: Free Mike!
The most famous case was Charles Hurwitz. Pension funds were removed to
use in speculation, replaced by one provided by an insurance company
PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Michael Perelman
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2001 5:54 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [PEN-L:7227] Re: RE: Re: Free Mike!
The most famous case was Charles Hurwitz. Pension funds were removed to
use in speculation, replaced by one
Michael Perelman wrote:
Milken offered a package to these raiders. Part of the strategy was to
use pension money to finance the LBOs [not Doug Henwood's]. He did not
just trade bonds, but if you are proposing to jail the bond traders also,
I will go along with you.
-
When a discussion seems to involve only 2 people on the list, I usually
suggest to shut it down. So, I will respond to David and let him have
then last word.
My father met both Ron Perelman and S. J. Perelman, but neither seen to be
related to us in any way that we could discover. David's
id Shemano
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Michael Perelman
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2001 7:21 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [PEN-L:7233] Re: RE: Re: Free Mike!
When a discussion seems to involve only 2 people on the list, I usually
sugge
Michael Perelman wrote:
Both David and Doug say that his clients did not complain. What about
those whose pension funds were used in his schemes?
I think you'd have to prove that Milken paper delivered subpar
returns. If I'm remembering right, it was his imitators who did the
worst deals,
Michael Pollak wrote:
So that in
the end, if we roughly estimate the cost to the taxpayers of the SL
bailout at $150 billion, and the population of the US at 300 million, he
basically stole $500 from every man woman and child in the US.
Wasn't the problem the Garn-St. Germain Depository
What was "fraudulent" about the deals?
Cheers, Ken Hanly
- Original Message -
From: Michael Perelman [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2001 9:21 PM
Subject: [PEN-L:7233] Re: RE: Re: Free Mike!
When a discussion seems to involve onl
David Shemano wrote:
The ones who complained, as has been stated, were the old crowd. When it
comes down to it, Milken was a new-money Jew lending money to other
new-money Jews to takeover corporations run by old-line management.
This is an unspoken subtext of the whole affair. Rohatyn played
Ken Hanly wrote:
What was "fraudulent" about the deals?
Every junk bond prospectus was freighted with warnings about how
risky the securities were (and still are). Whoever bought the things
knew that, and either thought the risk was worth it or didn't think
about risk at all.
Doug
Michael P. wrote:
As a person, he [Milken] was probably no more evil than many people around
Wall Street. I assume that was an important part of Doug's original
point. But he did also help fraudulent deals in which pension money was
scooped up to be used in LBO's.
I don't know much about
Today's Feed daily is my plea to Free Mike Milken!
http://www.feedmag.com/templates/select_template.php3?a_id=1581.
Doug
]]On Behalf Of Doug Henwood
Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2001 8:44 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [PEN-L:7187] Free Mike!
Today's Feed daily is my plea to Free Mike Milken!
http://www.feedmag.com/templates/select_template.php3?a_id=1581.
Doug
David Shemano wrote:
Milken got screwed. He was not charged with, and never convicted of,
insider trading. In fact, I bet there is not a single person on this list
who has a clue what he was charged with and how trivial the charges actually
were.
Even more challenging: who were the victims of
Doug Henwood wrote:
-
Milken got screwed. He was not charged with, and never convicted of,
insider trading. In fact, I bet there is not a single person on this list
who has a clue what he was charged with and how trivial the charges
actually
were.
Even more challenging:
At 03:41 PM 01/23/2001 -0800, you wrote:
. The
fact that Marc Rich was pardoned and Milken was not is conclusive proof that
Clinton is really as corrupt as he appears.
hey, man! you're dissing the man who ended welfare as we know it and showed
the Sudan who was boss!
;-)
Jim Devine [EMAIL
Nobody commented that he also freed Susan Rosenberg and Linda Evans -- the
latter, you may recall, asked for help from pen-l.
Yes, Rich is slime. He also engaged in union busting, if I recall
correctly.
Stewart is a better place to look for what Milken did.
Stewart, James B. 1991. Den of
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