RE: Re: What is wrong with the mainstream economics?

2003-02-17 Thread Forstater, Mathew
Title: Re: What is wrong with the mainstream economics? The critique that I couldn’t recall in an earlier post is called the Sonnenschein-Mantel-Debreu theorem.  It is not something that can easily be summarized for a popular audience, but it is an overlooked major problem with mainstream

Re: RE: What is wrong with the mainstream economics?

2003-02-17 Thread Mengen Lucy
I have looked at some of Shaikh's work on international trade and believe that his arguments are well founded. There is an interesting article in the last issue of “research in political economy” which criticises Shaikh's work from a Marxist perspective.  Lucy          "Devine, James" <[EMAIL PROT

Re: RE: re: What is wrong with the mainstream economics?

2003-02-14 Thread Mohammad Maljoo
wrong foot. His critiques are based on logic, while the hegemony of NE is based on sociological aspect: that's the question. Mohammad Maljoo From: "Lee, Frederic" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [PEN-L:34739] RE: re: W

RE: Re: RE: Re: Re: re: What is wrong with the mainstream economics?

2003-02-14 Thread Devine, James
 Ken writes:  Isnt a welfare situation pareto optimal when there are no potential pareto improvements?     right. In PO, there's no way to make Paul better off without robbing Peter.   Ken: > In fact the Dawes Hickes principal is an application of the basic notion of Pareto Optimality to

Re: RE: Re: Re: re: What is wrong with the mainstream economics?

2003-02-14 Thread k hanly
o: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' Sent: Friday, February 14, 2003 10:32 AM Subject: [PEN-L:34747] RE: Re: Re: re: What is wrong with the mainstream economics? hypothetical compensation of the sort discussed below is different from Pareto Optimality. It was developed specifically beca

RE: Re: Re: re: What is wrong with the mainstream economics?

2003-02-14 Thread Devine, James
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Friday, February 14, 2003 8:31 AMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: [PEN-L:34745] Re: Re: re: What is wrong with the mainstream economics? Surely when u come to practical applicatiions in social welfare theory such as cost-=benefit analysis not only are

Re: Re: re: What is wrong with the mainstream economics?

2003-02-14 Thread k hanly
- Original Message - From: andie nachgeborenen To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2003 11:12 PM Subject: [PEN-L:34733] Re: re: What is wrong with the mainstream economics? But to have consistency you need comparability. Incommernsurability means that you

RE: re: What is wrong with the mainstream economics?

2003-02-14 Thread Devine, James
Title: RE: [PEN-L:34731] re: What is wrong with the mainstream economics? Pareto Optimality is a simple, very conservative, idea. It defines optimality as that situation you can't give Paul anything of value to him without stealing from Peter (or hurting his pleasure in some other way). It tak

RE: RE: re: What is wrong with the mainstream economics?

2003-02-14 Thread Forstater, Mathew
ssage- From: Lee, Frederic Sent: Friday, February 14, 2003 8:52 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [PEN-L:34739] RE: re: What is wrong with the mainstream economics? For all those who are interested in what is wrong with neoclassical economic theory should read Steve Keen's book, Debunking Eco

RE: Re: re: What is wrong with the mainstream economics?

2003-02-14 Thread Forstater, Mathew
You mean poetry is not commensurable with pushpin?   -Original Message- From: andie nachgeborenen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2003 10:06 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [PEN-L:34730] Re: re: What is wrong with the mainstream economics

RE: re: What is wrong with the mainstream economics?

2003-02-14 Thread W.R. Needham
Though I use Word I can't open the ncet.doc. For all those who are interested in what is wrong with neoclassical economic theory should read Steve Keen's book, Debunking Economics. If you want a critique that is directed at neoclassical micro see the attached paper. There are many ways to sho

Re: re: What is wrong with the mainstream economics?

2003-02-13 Thread andie nachgeborenen
But to have consistency you need comparability. Incommernsurability means that you don't have that, you can't rank incommensurable values ordinary; you can't compare them. You need a common scale of some sort, ort some ranking mechanism. Otherwise you can't decide which of two outcomes is more effi

Re: re: What is wrong with the mainstream economics?

2003-02-13 Thread andie nachgeborenen
Communersability isn'tr interpersonal comparison of utilities. It's the assumption that even within a single individual's utility functions all values are commebsurable, that it's possible to compoare, e.g., my distaste for brussels sprouts with my contempt for Enron, my love for my sweetie with my

Re: re: What is wrong with the mainstream economics?

2003-02-13 Thread andie nachgeborenen
That's what I meant by technical devices. However, commsurability is still maintained,a nd you can't talk about Pareto optimality without it, which is why I focused on that assumption. jks  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: jks wrote,>The theory depends are two levels of questionable assumptions.. . .Well a

Re: RE: RE: re: What is wrong with the mainstream economics?

2003-02-13 Thread andie nachgeborenen
Mainstream economics can be attacked at many levels. Being a philosopher by training, I'll mention some foundational issues that may have been slighted in the discussion so far. The theory depends are two levels of questionable assumptions. One level concerns the notion of a utility function. This

RE: RE: re: What is wrong with the mainstream economics?

2003-02-13 Thread Forstater, Mathew
c1991, received some good attention. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2003 6:11 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [PEN-L:34715] RE: re: What is wrong with the mainstream economics? Mat wrote, >Perhaps one of t

RE: RE: re: What is wrong with the mainstream economics?

2003-02-13 Thread Forstater, Mathew
t the person is assuming all the assumptions of the GE model. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2003 6:11 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [PEN-L:34715] RE: re: What is wrong with the mainstream economics? Mat wrote, >Perhaps o

RE: re: What is wrong with the mainstream economics?

2003-02-13 Thread enilsson
Mat wrote, >Perhaps one of the most easily expressed and understandable critiques of mainstream >economics is that so many of its results rely on the full employment assumption. . . I'm not sure that is exactly true for applied labor models in which "unemployment" does occur. Because of this,

Re: RE: re: What is wrong with the mainstream economics?

2003-02-13 Thread Ian Murray
- Original Message - From: "Devine, James" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > why can't Enron be explained using the (relatively mainstream) theory of the > principal/agent problem? > = Some questions I've been asking while looking at the Enron document: Are there sets/classes of

RE: RE: re: What is wrong with the mainstream economics?

2003-02-13 Thread Forstater, Mathew
Title: RE: [PEN-L:34696] re: What is wrong with the mainstream economics? Perhaps one of the most easily expressed and understandable critiques of mainstream economics is that so many of its results rely on the full employment assumption (trade theory again is a great example). As Shaikh p

RE: re: What is wrong with the mainstream economics?

2003-02-13 Thread Devine, James
Title: RE: [PEN-L:34696] re: What is wrong with the mainstream economics? Eric says: >At a more fundamental level, utility theory ignores a major claim of many western thinkers that (using mainstream language) people have preferences over preference orderings but that they often find they are

RE: re: What is wrong with the mainstream economics?

2003-02-13 Thread Devine, James
Title: RE: [PEN-L:34694] re: What is wrong with the mainstream economics? why can't Enron be explained using the (relatively mainstream) theory of the principal/agent problem? Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] &  http://bellarmine.lmu.edu/~jdevine > -Original Mes

RE: Re: RE: What is wrong with the mainstream economics?

2003-02-13 Thread Forstater, Mathew
One way to go about addressing the question would be to divide your criticisms into internal critiques, external critiques, and empirical (in)validity.   The internal could mention the problems in capital theory and other logical inconsistencies (Marc Lavoie does a good job of summarizing

Re: RE: What is wrong with the mainstream economics?

2003-02-13 Thread Diane Monaco
At 08:13 AM 2/13/2003 -0800, you wrote: What a big order! If I were to be forced to talk about this subject, I'd stick to the basic point that "the problem with mainstream economics is not that it's wrong in its own terms as much as that it's incomplete." For example, the mainstream's "new institu

RE: Re: RE: What is wrong with the mainstream economics?

2003-02-13 Thread Devine, James
Title: RE: [PEN-L:34673] Re: RE: What is wrong with the mainstream economics? Negative externalities can be found in any introductory econ. textbook. The problem is that many or most textbooks tend to minimize their role as a major source of market failure (calling them mere "neighbo

Re: RE: What is wrong with the mainstream economics?

2003-02-13 Thread Carl Remick
From: "Devine, James" What a big order! If I were to be forced to talk about this subject, I'd stick to the basic point that "the problem with mainstream economics is not that it's wrong in its own terms as much as that it's incomplete." ... E.g., it doesn't account for "negative externalities,