Doug wrote:
>I thought the problem was capitalist farming, not "industrial" farming.
I think this is something that needs to be thought through carefully.
There is a long debate between those who take the position that
technology itself is for the most part "neutral" with the problem being
only
>As I read this it just says that small private ownership or large scale
>private ownership of land both are barriers to development of agriculture
>i.e. insofar as they are capitalist forms of agriculture.. His point is that
>arguing for industrial versus small scale agriculture is pointless. Yo
Doug Henwood :
> Ulhas Joglekar wrote:
>
> >Doug could see my pen-l post number 26813 "Why India needs transgenic
> >crops".
>
> Thanks. I missed that first time around. Do you agree?
Yes, I do !
Ulhas
>I thought the problem was capitalist farming, not "industrial" farming.
>
>Doug
No, I meant exactly what I said. It is a function of what John Bellamy
Foster calls the "metabolic rift". It doesn't matter particularly where you
put a factory. The same thing is not true about farms. Right now
Doug Henwood :
> I notice that Shiva's biggest fans are in the West, among people who
> shop at (organic) supermarkets.
I also notice that some Western Marxist sermons are usually meant for
Indians (or Indonesians and Egyptians). The official "Marxist-Leninists"
states can get away with anything.
>I doubt that socialists as socialists either support or oppose, in
>principle, "industrialized farming." It depends on ..[all sorts of
>things]
>
>Carrol
Carrol, industrialized farming historically has meant one thing and one
thing only: the introduction of chemical fertilizers, monocultur
Carrol Cox wrote:
>Perhaps she (Shiva) simply has wrong ideas. And if the ideas are wrong,
>it is best, I should think, to simply critique the ideas rather than
>speculate on her conscious or unconscious motives.
>
>I think it in general a bad idea (allowing for bursts of temper & other
>personal
Doug Henwood wrote:
> ravi wrote:
>
>> so what is wrong with sitting at home and mashing lentils? isn't the
>> point that the choice be available? as for shiva's point: it's
>> unimportant whether its men who are doing it or women (she says
>> women because they are doing it today). the point she
day, July 26, 2002 11:23 AM
Subject: [PEN-L:28596] Re: Re: Re: Re: Vandana Shiva
>
> >As I read this it just says that small private ownership or large scale
> >private ownership of land both are barriers to development of agriculture
> >i.e. insofar as they are capitalist fo
TED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, July 26, 2002 10:14 AM
Subject: [PEN-L:28575] Re: Re: Re: Re: Vandana Shiva
>
> >I thought the problem was capitalist farming, not "industrial" farming.
> >
> >Doug
>
>
> No, I meant exactly what I said.
Ulhas Joglekar wrote:
>
>
> some Western Marxist sermons
"Some X is Y" is almost always a true statement, and for that reason is,
usually, either utterly trivial or unprincipled or both. From the fact
that some X is Y nothing whatever of interest about X follows.
Carrol
>I also notice that some Western Marxist sermons are usually meant for
>Indians (or Indonesians and Egyptians). The official "Marxist-Leninists"
>states can get away with anything.
>
>Ulhas
Marxism has no country. It is the world outlook of the international
working class.
pigs to where the feed is than vice versa.
Cheers, Ken Hanly
- Original Message -
From: Louis Proyect <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, July 26, 2002 10:14 AM
Subject: [PEN-L:28575] Re: Re: Re: Re: Vandana Shiva
>
> >I thought the problem w
ken hanly wrote:
>Metabolic Rift. Is that Gaia with Gas from too much hog manure? No doubt
>the stink will drift over to some obscure
>journal such as Capitalism Socialism, Nature.
>
>
No, it is Karl Marx's concept. Let me try this one more time:
V. 3 of Capital, "The Transformation of Surplu
- Original Message -
From: "Louis Proyect" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, July 26, 2002 10:34 AM
Subject: [PEN-L:28582] Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Vandana Shiva
>
> >I also notice that some Western Marxist sermons are usually meant
And don't forget Paul Burkett's fine book.
On Fri, Jul 26, 2002 at 06:36:01PM -0400, Louis Proyect wrote:
>
> Furthermore, you won't find anything about this in James O'Connor's
> journal. He has his own interpretation of the environmental crisis that
> has many useful insights but is not real
Ian Murray :
> > Marxism has no country. It is the world outlook of the international
> > working class.
> >
> ===
>
> It is?
Marxism has no country, except Cuba ! :-)
Ulhas
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