Re: Re: Re: Re: Sheep and the rise of capitalism in England

2001-06-05 Thread Michael Perelman
Steve, please stop "grading" other people's posts. Write the person off list if you want. On Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 12:26:43AM +0100, Chris Burford wrote: > At 03/06/01 20:56 -1000, you wrote: > >On Sun, 3 Jun 2001, Chris Burford wrote: > > > I wonder now what contemptuous humorous joke Louis Proy

Re: Re: Re: Sheep and the rise of capitalism in England

2001-06-05 Thread Chris Burford
At 03/06/01 20:56 -1000, you wrote: >On Sun, 3 Jun 2001, Chris Burford wrote: > > I wonder now what contemptuous humorous joke Louis Proyect was trying to > > stifle when I first enquired whether there had been any discussion of > > sheep. If it was anything more than political analysis by sectar

Re: RE: Re: Sheep and the rise of capitalism in England

2001-06-05 Thread Chris Burford
At 04/06/01 09:41 +0100, Mark Jones wrote: Chris Burford wrote: > In my earlier post entitled 'A People's History of England' I > gave detailed > evidence of why orthodox marxist views on England in the past gave > prominence to the role of sheep and wool in the emergence of > capitalism in > Eng

RE: Re: RE: Re: Sheep and the rise of capitalism in England

2001-06-03 Thread Mark Jones
Michael Perelman: > > > Actually, Mark privately criticized me for that part of the book. I said the following about the book on the CrashList: > The importance of "The Invention of Capitalism" cannot be underestimated. > The history of so-called "Primitive Accumulation" is still not just > litt

Re: RE: Re: Sheep and the rise of capitalism in England

2001-06-02 Thread Michael Perelman
Actually, Mark privately criticized me for that part of the book. I mostly agreed with him, but I did not have time to take advantage of his comments. Still, on the whole, there were stong similarities between the two. I did not look at much of the international contribution because I was tryi

Re: RE: Re: Sheep and the rise of capitalism in England

2001-06-02 Thread Louis Proyect
>When was this? Arguably, England was not backward in terms of political >development, from before the Norman Conquest. No European state was as >mature as Edward the Confessor's. And when was the following? Arguably, >there were always labour shortages in England, except for brief periods in >the

Re: RE: Re: Sheep and the rise of capitalism in England

2001-06-02 Thread Michael Perelman
I believed that at the time when England was exporting raw wool, it was fairly backward economcally; that the European city states were ahead. On Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 12:41:14AM +0100, Mark Jones wrote: > Michael Perelman: > > > > > > I agree with much of Mark's note, except for the way he dismis

RE: RE: Re: Sheep and the rise of capitalism in England

2001-06-02 Thread Mark Jones
A rising tide of nausea when faced with the prospect of getting into this debate yet again meant that my copy-editing of my last humble effort was parsimonious even by my own generally reckless standards. But since I took the trouble to answer Chris's post, I suppose I should go the extra mile and

Re: Re: Re: Sheep and the rise of capitalism in England

2001-06-01 Thread Chris Burford
At 01/06/01 11:50 -1000, you wrote: >I have never been a big fan of British sheep. They make me wanna sleep. > >Steve You seem not be be energised by the evidence that Ellen Wood is guilty of a propagating a non-proletarian analysis of history. Besides why do you confuse English sheep with Br