On Wednesday, July 30, 2003 at 18:33:09 (-0700) Michael Perelman writes:
I don't know how we switched from open source to outsourcing, but I find
the concern about outsourcing quite interesting. For decades,
manufacturing workers suffered the brunt of outsourcing.I saw little
interest in the
I initially made the connection between the two. Long-term investment
by companies like IBM in supporting open-source allows them to more
easily outsource down the road, when the knowledge has spread. There
is no question that open-source software is a vehicle for spreading
knowledge rapidly at
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 07/30/03 09:57PM
But job loss was presented
as a fact of nature, about which we could do nothing - except go to
college and learn computers. But now the people who did the right
thing are taking hits too.
Has anyone heard what Robert Reich and other libs who pushed education
Interesting idea, but I should mention that outsourcing is not only
hitting programmers, but accountants and financial people as well.
I would disagree about the characterization of a tad more interest. I
am reading a new story almost every day on the subject. I don't recall
such interest when
Doug Henwood wrote:
Michael Perelman wrote:
I don't know how we switched from open source to outsourcing, but I find
the concern about outsourcing quite interesting. For decades,
manufacturing workers suffered the brunt of outsourcing.I saw little
interest in the media regarding the plight
ravi wrote:
what is interesting (at least to me, because i am in the space) is
that the high-paying privileged jobs in IT (the ones that ivy league
educated liberal white men filled) are being outsourced to india or
elsewhere, and some of the whining from these liberals sounds quite
inconsistent.
Hey, all these Randroids will blame the fucking wogs
for taking their jobs, and vote GOP anyway . . . If
you are mad and out of work and have no prospects,
might as well have a fundamentalist moron sociopath
draft doger go smash a defenseless third world
country against the wall to show them
Not just to show them who's boss. You have to BELIEVE.
J.
- Original Message -
From: andie nachgeborenen [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2003 6:28 PM
Subject: Re: [PEN-L] Support of open-source software by business
Hey, all these Randroids will blame
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 07/31/03 12:19PM
what is interesting (at least to me, because i am in the space) is
that the high-paying privileged jobs in IT (the ones that ivy league
educated liberal white men filled) are being outsourced to india or
elsewhere, and some of the whining from these liberals
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 07/29/03 11:00AM
I just found an article on Counterpunch by Standard Schaefer that
deals with this topic:
http://www.counterpunch.org/schaefer07262003.html
Here's an article from the corporate IT manager point of view, about how to spin in
for your employees as you send
Gartner: One in 20 end-user IT jobs to move offshore by late 2004
But pinning down definitive numbers is hard to do, the research firm said
By Thomas Hoffman
JULY 30, 2003
Between now and the end of 2004, one out of every 10 jobs at U.S. IT
vendors and services providers -- and one out of 20 IT
I see a lot more opposition to open-source software, and projects of
non-commercial programming projects like decentralized peer-to-peer
networks than I do support from big business.
In terms of support, the main means is by usage of open-source software.
I have worked from very small companies
I don't know how we switched from open source to outsourcing, but I find
the concern about outsourcing quite interesting. For decades,
manufacturing workers suffered the brunt of outsourcing.I saw little
interest in the media regarding the plight of these workers. Now that
better educated,
regarding outsourcing, I might mention that all of the copy editing and
production of my new book, The Peverse Economy, is being done by a company
in India, something I should have anticipated, but never expected.
--
Michael Perelman
Economics Department
California State University
Chico, CA
Michael Perelman wrote:
I don't know how we switched from open source to outsourcing, but I find
the concern about outsourcing quite interesting. For decades,
manufacturing workers suffered the brunt of outsourcing.I saw little
interest in the media regarding the plight of these workers.
Your reading is the same as mine. Nothing about their plight. Just that
their situation was a natural part of progress.
On Wed, Jul 30, 2003 at 09:57:28PM -0400, Doug Henwood wrote:
Michael Perelman wrote:
I don't know how we switched from open source to outsourcing, but I find
the concern
I think Doug hits the point of why this is a bigger news media story...
the inherent hypocrisy of it.
Get fired. Go to school... get your degree... be part of the American
Dream... and get fired again.
Ken.
--
You never know if you've got a happy ending [to your life] until you
finally die. I
Could you please list once again your writings on this matter. I read much of the material but lost the location.
Copyleft vs. Copyright - A Marxist Critiquehttp://www.firstmonday.dk/issues/issue7_3/soderberg/index.html
For most of this year I have been working on extending the article into a
On Monday, July 28, 2003 at 09:14:02 (-0500) Bill Lear writes:
On Monday, July 28, 2003 at 09:58:39 (-0400) Anders Schneiderman writes:
...
I think where the issue of lowering labor costs is going to become a big issue is in
the new surge of outsourcing. Open source development projects have
In a message dated 7/29/03 12:26:28 AM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
For most of this year I have been working on extending the article into a full-length book. I would be very grateful to comments, criticism and suggestions (if anyone is really interested I can send the
easier to use
Java programmers in India, who get paid a fifth of what they do in the U.S.
Thanks,
Anders Schneiderman
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 07/27/03 10:19AM
I've been wondering if business support for open-source software ---
from IBM, for example --- is really an effort to spread knowledge and
thus
On Monday, July 28, 2003 at 09:58:39 (-0400) Anders Schneiderman writes:
...
I think where the issue of lowering labor costs is going to become a big issue is in
the new surge of outsourcing. Open source development projects have gotten very good
at having volunteers from around the globe
The primary aim for business is certainly to tap into cheap programming labour. This is sometimes even recognised by the chief priest of open-source, Eric Raymond, but in his wordsphrasedas a positive feature. On why open source (and the more radically minded 'free software')
In a message dated 7/28/03 3:24:35 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Communities can engage thousands of skilled labourers while even the biggest multinational company can hardly afford to pay more than a few hundred developers. However, this touches on something else that I
I've been wondering if business support for open-source software ---
from IBM, for example --- is really an effort to spread knowledge and
thus lower costs of white-collar programmers. Any studies of this?
Bill
I've been wondering if business support for open-source software ---
from IBM, for example --- is really an effort to spread knowledge and
thus lower costs of white-collar programmers. Any studies of this?
Bill
I haven't heard this myself. When I was being trained in Java by a
consultant
.
On Sun, Jul 27, 2003 at 09:19:42AM -0500, Bill Lear wrote:
I've been wondering if business support for open-source software ---
from IBM, for example --- is really an effort to spread knowledge and
thus lower costs of white-collar programmers. Any studies of this?
Bill
--
Michael Perelman
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