Files, Directories, Resources, Operating Systems

The S16: chown, chmod thread seems to be too unix-focussed. Perl6 is being born in a world dominated by the internet. Whilst perl was the glue for the internet when the internet was born, it was a unix child. I learned perl from a Windows perspective and I found the discussion of ownership and

Re: Files, Directories, Resources, Operating Systems

Richard Hainsworth wrote in perl.perl6.language : > The S16: chown, chmod thread seems to be too unix-focussed. I was more or less thinking that the syscall-related primitives, like chown or chmod, could go in a POSIX namespace. Even in UNIX land nowadays the situation can be much more complex tha

Re: Files, Directories, Resources, Operating Systems

* Richard Hainsworth ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [081126 08:21]: > The S16: chown, chmod thread seems to be too unix-focussed. > > To be portable, the minimum assumptions need to be made about the > environment in which a program operates. Alternatively, the software > needs to be able to determine whet

Re: Files, Directories, Resources, Operating Systems

On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 12:40:41PM +0100, Mark Overmeer wrote: > We should focus on OS abstraction. > [...] the design of this needs to be free from historical mistakes. And avoid making too many new ones. There must be useful prior art around. Java, for example, has a FileSystem abstraction ja

Re: Files, Directories, Resources, Operating Systems

On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 12:40 PM, Mark Overmeer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Also, I get data from a CD which was written case-insensitive and then > copied to my Linux box. It would be nice to be able to say: "treat this > directory case insensitive" (even when the implementation is slow) > Share

Re: Files, Directories, Resources, Operating Systems

* Leon Timmermans ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [081126 15:43]: > On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 12:40 PM, Mark Overmeer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > That is a task for the operating system, not Perl. You're trying to > solve the problem at the wrong end here IMHO. In my (and your) case, the operating system is no

Re: Files, Directories, Resources, Operating Systems

On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 11:21:58AM +0300, Richard Hainsworth wrote: > The S16: chown, chmod thread seems to be too unix-focussed. Indeed, what you are currently reading in S16 is mostly just lightly edited copy-paste from P5 docs. But the S16 draft is out in the pugs repo for a reason--anyone and

Re: Files, Directories, Resources, Operating Systems

I agree with the idea of making Perl 6's filesystem/etc interface more abstract, as previously discussed, and also that users should be able to choose between different levels of abstraction where that makes sense, either picking a more portable interface versus a more platform-specific one. F

Re: Files, Directories, Resources, Operating Systems

On Wed, 2008-11-26 at 11:34 -0800, Darren Duncan wrote: > I agree with the idea of making Perl 6's filesystem/etc interface more > abstract, > as previously discussed, and also that users should be able to choose between > different levels of abstraction where that makes sense, either picking a

Re: Files, Directories, Resources, Operating Systems

On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 5:15 PM, Mark Overmeer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Yes, you are right on this. ASCII does not suffer from UTF-8, so my > example was flawed. The second 128 does cause problems. How can glob() > sort filenames, for instance? That's a matter of collation, not (just) chara

Re: Files, Directories, Resources, Operating Systems

Can I just remind everyone that (IMO) we shouldn't just be considering filesystems here? I think it would be a pretty useful feature to have a general tree manipulation interface, and then this could be applied to filesystems, or XML, or LDAP, or SQL (although this doesn't map so well), or wh

Re: Files, Directories, Resources, Operating Systems

Tom Christiansen wrote: I believe database folks have been doing the same with character data, but I'm not up-to-date on the DB world, so maybe we have some metainfo about the locale to draw on there. Tim? AFAIK, modern databases are all strongly typed at least to the point that the values yo

Re: Files, Directories, Resources, Operating Systems

* Tom Christiansen ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [081126 23:55]: > On "Wed, 26 Nov 2008 11:18:01 PST."--or, for backwards compatibility, > at 7:18:01 p.m. hora Romae on a.d. VI Kal. Dec. MMDCCLXI AUC, > Larry Wall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > SUMMARY: I've been looking into this sort of thing lately (see

Re: Files, Directories, Resources, Operating Systems

Just as a variable name in perl6 must conform to a standard and abide by a set of constraints, why should file or other resource names be an exception? The constraints on variable names in perl6 are very flexible, but there are some rules that must be enforced for a program to work. It seems

Re: Files, Directories, Resources, Operating Systems

In-Reply-To: Message from Mark Overmeer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> of "Thu, 27 Nov 2008 08:23:50 +0100." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >* Tom Christiansen ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [081126 23:55]: >> On "Wed, 26 Nov 2008 11:18:01 PST."--or, for backwards compatibility, >> at 7:18:01 p.m. hora Romae on a.d. VI Kal.

Re: Files, Directories, Resources, Operating Systems

In-Reply-To: Message from Darren Duncan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> of "Wed, 26 Nov 2008 19:34:09 PST." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Tom Christiansen wrote: >> I believe database folks have been doing the same with character data, but >> I'm not up-to-date on the DB world, so maybe we have some metainfo

Re: Files, Directories, Resources, Operating Systems

Hi, First of all, sorry for breaking the thread, but I had some trouble with my mail provider, and couldn't hit the "reply" button. To the point... I think there are some things that are simply not solved by abstraction. Some problems are concrete problems that need concrete solutions, filesyste

Re: Files, Directories, Resources, Operating Systems

Tom Christiansen wrote: In-Reply-To: Message from Darren Duncan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> There is ABSOLUTELY NO WAY I've found to tell whether these utf-8 string should test equal, and when, nor how to order them, without knowing the locale: "RESUME", "Resume" "resume" "Resu

Re: Files, Directories, Resources, Operating Systems

* Tom Christiansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2008-11-27 11:30]: > In-Reply-To: Message from Darren Duncan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >of "Wed, 26 Nov 2008 19:34:09 PST." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > I believe that the most important issues here, those having > > to do with identity, can be discussed and solved

Re: Files, Directories, Resources, Operating Systems

* Aristotle Pagaltzis ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [081204 14:38]: > Furthermore, from the point of view of the OS, even treating file > names as opaque binary blobs is actually fine! Programs don’t > care after all. In fact, no problem shows up until the point > where you try to show filenames to a user; t

Re: Files, Directories, Resources, Operating Systems

* Mark Overmeer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2008-12-04 16:50]: > * Aristotle Pagaltzis ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [081204 14:38]: > > Furthermore, from the point of view of the OS, even treating file > > names as opaque binary blobs is actually fine! Programs don’t > > care after all. In fact, no problem shows u

Re: Files, Directories, Resources, Operating Systems

* Aristotle Pagaltzis ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [081204 16:57]: > * Mark Overmeer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2008-12-04 16:50]: > > * Aristotle Pagaltzis ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [081204 14:38]: > > > Furthermore, from the point of view of the OS, even treating file > > > names as opaque binary blobs is actually fi

Re: Files, Directories, Resources, Operating Systems

* Mark Overmeer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2008-12-07 14:20]: > > > - you have XML-files with meta-data on files which are > > > being distributed. (I have a lot of those) > > Use URI encoding unless you like a world of pain. > > You are looking at it from the wrong point of view: Perl is > used as

Re: Files, Directories, Resources, Operating Systems

* Mark Overmeer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2008-12-07 14:20]: > So why are you all so hessitating in making each other's life > easier? There is no 100% solution, but 0% is even worse! It looks like Python 3000 just tried that. People are not happy about it: http://utcc.utoronto.ca/~cks/space/blog/pyth

Re: Files, Directories, Resources, Operating Systems

On Mon, Dec 8, 2008 at 8:16 PM, Aristotle Pagaltzis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > It looks like Python 3000 just tried that. > > People are not happy about it: > http://utcc.utoronto.ca/~cks/space/blog/python/OsListdirProblem > Yeeh, I also noted exactly that problem when reading the "What's New In

Re: Files, Directories, Resources, Operating Systems

* Aristotle Pagaltzis ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [081208 19:16]: > * Mark Overmeer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2008-12-07 14:20]: > > So why are you all so hessitating in making each other's life > > easier? There is no 100% solution, but 0% is even worse! > > It looks like Python 3000 just tried that. > People

Re: Files, Directories, Resources, Operating Systems

* Mark Overmeer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2008-12-08 21:20]: > A pitty that we do not focus on the general concept of OS > abstraction (knowing that some problems are only partially > solvable (on the moment)). Well go on. Explain how you would, f.ex., provide an abstract API over file ownership and ac

Re: Files, Directories, Resources, Operating Systems

* Aristotle Pagaltzis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2008-12-10 01:10]: > Well go on. Btw, I just realised that it can be read as sarcastic, which I didn’t intend. I am honestly curious, even if skeptical. I am biased, but I am open to be convinced. Regards, -- Aristotle Pagaltzis //

Re: Files, Directories, Resources, Operating Systems

On 2008 Dec 9, at 19:56, Aristotle Pagaltzis wrote: * Aristotle Pagaltzis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2008-12-10 01:10]: Well go on. Btw, I just realised that it can be read as sarcastic, which I didn’t intend. I am honestly curious, even if skeptical. I am biased, but I am open to be convinced. B

Re: Files, Directories, Resources, Operating Systems

It may well be that a fine-grained interface isn't practical, but perhaps there are some basics that we could implement, such as - set owner of this thing - (maybe) set group of this thing - give owner|everyone|?some-group the ability to read from|write to|remove|run this thing - tell me whether a

Re: Files, Directories, Resources, Operating Systems

On 2008 Dec 9, at 21:11, Charles Bailey wrote: It may well be that a fine-grained interface isn't practical, but perhaps there are some basics that we could implement, such as - set owner of this thing - (maybe) set group of this thing Group is problematic; I don't recall Windows having group

Re: Files, Directories, Resources, Operating Systems

* Aristotle Pagaltzis ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [081210 00:06]: > * Mark Overmeer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2008-12-08 21:20]: > > A pitty that we do not focus on the general concept of OS > > abstraction (knowing that some problems are only partially > > solvable (on the moment)). > > Well go on. Explain ho

Re: Files, Directories, Resources, Operating Systems

* Charles Bailey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2008-12-10 03:15]: > It may well be that a fine-grained interface isn't practical, > but perhaps there are some basics that we could implement, such > as > > - set owner of this thing > - (maybe) set group of this thing > - give owner|everyone|?some-group the a

Re: Files, Directories, Resources, Operating Systems

I''ve been playing with similar sorts of problems when creating an OO model for packaging metadata, that could supposedly represent the data from a .rpm or a .deb or whatever. The first thing I did was set up a method where if we're outputting eg. an RPM, it will mark every piece of metadata