it.
As far as I can tell, this is FUD. Can you produce statements from these
lawyers? Every lawyer I have ever met things it is legally sound, including
those lawyers who are trying to find ways to violate it!
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Bradley M. Kuhn - http://www.ebb.org/bkuhn
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> At 12:29 AM 1/5/01 -0500, Bradley M. Kuhn wrote:
> >Dan Sugalski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > > I'm beginning to loathe software licenses in a *big* way, and I'm a half
> > > step away from saying to hell with it all and going fully publi
> On Fri, 5 Jan 2001, Bradley M. Kuhn wrote:
>
> > I personally think that the relying on LGPL'ed code is completely
> > reasonable. Some will disagree, so we need to come to a consensus on this
> > as a community.
Andy Dougherty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Liceses. Bletch.
Don't blame the licenses, blame the copyright law that makes them an
unfortunate necessity in many cases.
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Bradley M. Kuhn - http://www.ebb.org/bkuhn
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ensus on this
as a community.
Also, note that as long as our license is compatible with the LGPL (and
most licenses are). There are no licensing problems for us, but we might be
creating hassles for those who redistribute proprietary software versions of
perl.
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Bradley M. Kuhn - http://www.ebb.org/bkuhn
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d to do", from a programming point a view, given that the
Turing indicated that it can be done by a program in polynomial time. There
is not a definitive way to "prove" coming up with that polynomial time
algorithm is hard. ;)
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Bradley M. Kuhn - http://www.ebb.org/bkuhn
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likely. Given that my "write it all in Java" proposal was
shot down with very good arguments, I wouldn't ask for these sorts of parts
to be anything but in C, and eccentric. ;)
Internals of scalars: C
API to scalars: language independent
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ou chapters of my Master's
Thesis that I am finishing up this month, that is making the detailed
arguments as to why it is a hard problem.
I believe the difficult that we've had porting perl5 to the JVM is a bug in
perl5's design. I am trying to encourage people to fix that bug in perl6.
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design doesn't have to center around the langauge we choose to
implement that design, though.
We've got C for the implementation and that's fine. But, why design it so C
is the only choice for a language?
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t least one hand-held on the market (PocketLinux) that is
basically Java-based. (My understanding is that they run enough of Linux to
make the JVM work. ;)
As mentioned elsewhere in the thread, Motorola has a JVM-based device coming
out, too.
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Bradley M. Kuhn - http://www.ebb.org/bkuhn
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choice other than to treat the JVM like "just
another processor". But the JVM isn't just a processor, it's also an object
model. If a port isn't aware of that object model, then the usefulness of
the JVM port is greatly reduced. I'd be happy to talk more about this with
you off-list if you are interested.
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Bradley M. Kuhn - http://www.ebb.org/bkuhn
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ember that `require' is built on `eval STRING'.
> On Wed, Dec 06, 2000 at 08:30:06PM -0500, Bradley M. Kuhn wrote:
> > I see no reason to ghettoize powerful non-C-based systems just because we
Jarkko Hietaniemi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Powerful? Java? Excuse me,
> On Wed, 6 Dec 2000, Bradley M. Kuhn wrote:
>
> > And, it will make the barrier for entry for new internals hacker lower.
Sam Tregar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Really? Do you honestly believe there are more Java programmers than C
> programmers? Particularily
`eval STRING'.
I see no reason to ghettoize powerful non-C-based systems just because we
write the canonical perl6 implementation in Perl.
Soon, there will likely be JVM systems that can run eval($string) quickly
enough, but not if it is written in C (as there is no C->JVM compiler).
#x27;t have a native C compiler (i.e., the JVM).
I think that's the first and foremost concern with eval($string) (and hence,
the parser). Slow things can usually be made faster, but "can't get there
from here" is often hard to solve.
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Sorry. I didn't mean those should be methods Scalars have! I was just
trying to show the kind of documentation I'd like to see. I wasn't trying
to produce said documentation. :)
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ace should be documented outside of the
implementation. I was just concerned because much of the internals has been
C-specific thus far.
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going to change with the release of GCC 3.0, based on current
benchmarks of test releases of GCC 3.0.
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Bradley M. Kuhn - http://www.ebb.org/bkuhn
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ith
both the performance and ease of use.
The argument is: "Computers do a better job at memory allocation than humans
do by hand, so let the computer do it!"
I think we should give this idea some serious consideration.
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Some people who aren't on the design team may want to follow the progress,
but aren't particularly interested in the public list.
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some toke.re).
Larry brought this up in his talk. Of course, I believe that Larry was
sleep-deprived at the time, too. ;)
> It was late though. Might have been sleep deprevation talking.
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[dragged this thread to [EMAIL PROTECTED], where it is probably better
discussed. Please honor Reply-To:]
Leon Brocard wrote:
> Bradley M. Kuhn sent the following bits through the ether:
>
> > It should be noted that in Larry's speech on Friday, he said that he wanted
>
set of Perl. :)
(I was the only one who clapped, which either means:
(a) this is not a popular idea
(b) there weren't many Perl6 hackers in the crowd
(c) I am extremely over-exited about the prospect of writing the lexer
and parser in Perl. :)
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subset of Perl that buys you a full
Perl parser.
So, I'd like to see the parser written in a simple subset of Perl or some
other small language that can be bootstrapped fast. And, if we pick a
simple subset of Perl, translating to efficient C probably shouldn't be too
hard.
Does this argument make sense? Comments welcome.
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Bradley M. Kuhn - http://www.ebb.org/bkuhn
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M port to
support what they are doing out of the box. My concern is just that _other
parts of the core_ treat these vtable interfaces as a firewall, and do not
"reach in" past them.
If we find out they have to "reach in" later for performance, I see no
problem with that. I just don't want the design to depend on "reaching in".
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that the more of the perl core that relies on
specific representations of data, the more complexity there is in porting to
other architectures.
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> arrays and hashes and wedge them in too.
Why not make the scalar, array, and hash vtables each be separate RFCs? Or,
am I over-engineering the problem?
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Dan Sugalski wrote:
> At 04:25 AM 8/30/00 -0400, Bradley M. Kuhn wrote:
> > > 2) Having a mechanism to automagically load in chunks of executable code
> > > only when needed would be nice
> >
> >I would take this one a bit further:
> >
> > 2a) It s
y have gone beyond a subset of
Perl they sought to stay within.
This is primarily for compiling Perl to be run on embedded devices.
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Bradley M. Kuhn - http://www.ebb.org/bkuhn
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epped out of the subset (see my other post on another
thread for more stuff about that).
My hope is that the perl6 (note case) will be able to provide me the hooks
I'd need to do that.
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27;t care much myself *how* it is done here, but something non-hokey would
be good. ;)
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on happen automagically in the parser? (My
gut says "here there be dragons", but they don't seem like dragons that are
unslayable.)
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For Perl5, I am
currently using Kawa as the Java IR and what B:: provides (for lack of
something better) as the Perl IR.
This is why I want such a clearly defined API for the IR and for any
internal data structures used by the IR---I'd like to write a backend that
morphs the Perl IR into the "Java IR" to generate JVM bytecode.
Dan, does that fit with your thinking?
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> Internal String Storage to be Opaque
> Number: 131
> =item Why a single internal encoding?
FWIW, I would like to throw my support behind this proposal.
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Bradley M. Kuhn - http://www.ebb.org/bkuhn
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nguage".
As the JVM porter, I'd like my life easy, but I don't expect perl6 to hand
me a JVM implementation---I just want to right components and interfaces so
it is not as hard as a job as it is for perl5.
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ed the execution engine very far from
the IR. Whether or not we want to have an execution engine (which I tend to
call a VM :) that works directly on the IR or one that always goes through
bytecode, or both, I think we must keep a high wall of abstraction between
the IR and the VM.
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lity version that maintains both.
I agree with that. I believe we sould push as much as we can into the
vtbl. This will make reimplmentation of Perl guts in say, Java, much
easier. :)
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ly, I have yet to find out how the process works
to create new top-level working groups.
Of course, it could be that no one has gotten time to figure out that
procedure. That's understandable.
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Bradley M. Kuhn - http://www.ebb.org/bkuhn
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#x27;t see them.
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Bradley M. Kuhn - http://www.ebb.org/bkuhn
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ely coupled, you cannot work with one without the
other.
I don't have any clear ideas yet on how they might be separated yet, but I
might have an RFC on that forthcoming in the months to come.
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