Re: Can I get some PostgreSQL developer feedback on these five general issues I have with PostgreSQL and its ecosystem?

On 2/10/20 2:08 π.μ., tutilu...@tutanota.com wrote: On Thu, Sep 24, 2020 at 10:40 PM mailto:tutilu...@tutanota.com>> wrote: Well not partial as in incremental. Instead dump only some portion of the schema with or without its associated data. It's funny tha

Re: Can I get some PostgreSQL developer feedback on these five general issues I have with PostgreSQL and its ecosystem?

On 2020-09-23 13:38:19 -0700, Adrian Klaver wrote: > On 9/23/20 11:51 AM, tutilu...@tutanota.com wrote: > > This comes down to what your definition of embedded is? A matter of > > determining whether we are talking apples or oranges. > > > > Just what I said in my original question. Someth

Re: Can I get some PostgreSQL developer feedback on these five general issues I have with PostgreSQL and its ecosystem?

On 10/1/20 4:08 PM, tutilu...@tutanota.com wrote: Yeah, this isn't rude or insulting at all... It would be refreshing to hear your be honest for once and just admit that you *want* it to be difficult. You *like* that there's a high threshold and it makes you feel superior to exclude "dum

Re: Can I get some PostgreSQL developer feedback on these five general issues I have with PostgreSQL and its ecosystem?

> On Oct 1, 2020, at 16:08, tutilu...@tutanota.com wrote: > But of course I should be grateful no matter what because it doesn't cost > money. No one is asking you to be grateful. However, you are asking for other people to do things that important to you, but not them. They are not require

Re: Can I get some PostgreSQL developer feedback on these five general issues I have with PostgreSQL and its ecosystem?

> On Thu, Sep 24, 2020 at 10:40 PM <> tutilu...@tutanota.com> > wrote: > >> >> >>> Well not partial as in incremental. Instead dump only some portion of the >>> schema with or without its associated data. >>> >> It's funny that you should bring that up, considering how it was one of my >> poin

Re: Can I get some PostgreSQL developer feedback on these five general issues I have with PostgreSQL and its ecosystem?

> On Sep 22, 2020, at 5:28 PM, tutilu...@tutanota.com wrote: > > I hate the "wrong tool for the job" argument. It assumes that everyone has > infinite time, energy and brain capacity to learn endless redundant tools > just to "use the right tool for the job" rather than "use what you actually

Re: Can I get some PostgreSQL developer feedback on these five general issues I have with PostgreSQL and its ecosystem?

On Thu, Sep 24, 2020 at 10:40 PM wrote: > > Well not partial as in incremental. Instead dump only some portion of the > schema with or without its associated data. > > It's funny that you should bring that up, considering how it was one of my > points... See the point about pg_dump's bug on Windo

Re: Can I get some PostgreSQL developer feedback on these five general issues I have with PostgreSQL and its ecosystem?

On Fri, Sep 25, 2020 at 10:04:53AM +0200, Thomas Kellerer wrote: > I am not in the USA (and far from being US-centric as well) and I have been > working > with relational databases for over thirty years. I never had problems using > unquoted > ASCII names (using snake_case) for my database object

Re: Can I get some PostgreSQL developer feedback on these five general issues I have with PostgreSQL and its ecosystem?

On Thu, Sep 24, 2020 at 11:47:10PM -0500, Ron wrote: > On 9/24/20 6:20 PM, Bruce Momjian wrote: > > On Wed, Sep 23, 2020 at 12:28:14AM +0200, tutilu...@tutanota.com wrote: > > > Sep 21, 2020, 7:53 PM by j...@commandprompt.com: > > > See my comment about Google. The information is out there and

Re: Can I get some PostgreSQL developer feedback on these five general issues I have with PostgreSQL and its ecosystem?

On 9/25/20 7:40 AM, tutilu...@tutanota.com wrote: > I don't mean this to sound rude, but it's like talking to a wall... What > I mean is that there are obviously technical means for software to know > whether they are exhausting the system they are running on or not, and > expecting people to under

Re: Can I get some PostgreSQL developer feedback on these five general issues I have with PostgreSQL and its ecosystem?

Adrian Klaver schrieb am 25.09.2020 um 17:02: Would it be nice if I could use special characters like öäü in the names of tables and columns (without the hassle of quoting them)? Yes, absolutely. But you can use them without quoting: select version();   ve

Re: Can I get some PostgreSQL developer feedback on these five general issues I have with PostgreSQL and its ecosystem?

On 9/24/20 10:40 PM, tutilu...@tutanota.com wrote: Well not partial as in incremental. Instead dump only some portion of the schema with or without its associated data. It's funny that you should bring that up, considering how it was one of my points... See the point about pg_dump's bu

Re: Can I get some PostgreSQL developer feedback on these five general issues I have with PostgreSQL and its ecosystem?

On 9/25/20 1:04 AM, Thomas Kellerer wrote: The fact that there are a lot of sloppy, US-centric people who refuse to use correctly named identifiers and cannot understand how there can be anything besides a-z in an alphabet, doesn't change reality and doesn't make a bug "right". I am not in t

Re: Can I get some PostgreSQL developer feedback on these five general issues I have with PostgreSQL and its ecosystem?

tutilu...@tutanota.com schrieb am 25.09.2020 um 06:41: All lowercase is good That's your personal opinion -- not some kind of fact, and it definitely goes against everything that I believe. You have to accept that every programming environment has its own best practices (in terms of coding

Re: Can I get some PostgreSQL developer feedback on these five general issues I have with PostgreSQL and its ecosystem?

> Well not partial as in incremental. Instead dump only some portion of the > schema with or without its associated data. > It's funny that you should bring that up, considering how it was one of my points... See the point about pg_dump's bug on Windows. >> I'm saying that PostGIS has a bug d

Re: Can I get some PostgreSQL developer feedback on these five general issues I have with PostgreSQL and its ecosystem?

Sep 24, 2020, 8:13 AM by tshel...@gmail.com: >> >> On 9/23/20 11:51 AM, >> tutilu...@tutanota.com>>  wrote: >> > >     Huh? A schema is just a name space, why does it matter how the > >     extension chooses to define it? I mean you could have number of > >     permutations of postgis. > > > > I'm

Re: Can I get some PostgreSQL developer feedback on these five general issues I have with PostgreSQL and its ecosystem?

On 9/24/20 6:20 PM, Bruce Momjian wrote: On Wed, Sep 23, 2020 at 12:28:14AM +0200, tutilu...@tutanota.com wrote: Sep 21, 2020, 7:53 PM by j...@commandprompt.com: See my comment about Google. The information is out there and easy to find. I guess I'm the worst idiot in the world, then, who

Re: Can I get some PostgreSQL developer feedback on these five general issues I have with PostgreSQL and its ecosystem?

(I can't believe I'm replying to this drivel...) >> >     Huh? A schema is just a name space, why does it matter how the >> >     extension chooses to define it? I mean you could have number of >> >     permutations of postgis. >> > >> > I'm saying that PostGIS has a bug due to incorrectly constru

Re: Can I get some PostgreSQL developer feedback on these five general issues I have with PostgreSQL and its ecosystem?

On Wed, Sep 23, 2020 at 12:28:14AM +0200, tutilu...@tutanota.com wrote: > Sep 21, 2020, 7:53 PM by j...@commandprompt.com: > See my comment about Google. The information is out there and easy to > find. > > I guess I'm the worst idiot in the world, then, who can't DuckDuckGo (Google > is > e

Re: Can I get some PostgreSQL developer feedback on these five general issues I have with PostgreSQL and its ecosystem?

On Sun, Sep 20, 2020 at 01:15:26PM -0400, Tom Lane wrote: > Bruce Momjian writes: > > On Mon, Sep 14, 2020 at 05:39:57PM -0400, Tom Lane wrote: > >> On the other hand, the very same thing could be said of database names > >> and role names, yet we have never worried much about whether those were >

Re: Can I get some PostgreSQL developer feedback on these five general issues I have with PostgreSQL and its ecosystem?

On 24/09/2020 18:13, Tony Shelver wrote: On 9/23/20 11:51 AM, tutilu...@tutanota.com  wrote: >     Huh? A schema is just a name space, why does it matter how the >     extension chooses to define it? I mean you could have number of >     permutations of p

Re: Can I get some PostgreSQL developer feedback on these five general issues I have with PostgreSQL and its ecosystem?

> > > On 9/23/20 11:51 AM, tutilu...@tutanota.com wrote: > > Huh? A schema is just a name space, why does it matter how the > extension chooses to define it? I mean you could have number of > permutations of postgis. > > I'm saying that PostGIS has a bug due to incorrectly constructed >

Re: Can I get some PostgreSQL developer feedback on these five general issues I have with PostgreSQL and its ecosystem?

On 9/23/20 11:51 AM, tutilu...@tutanota.com wrote: It is not deprecated or legacy and it is still used by many. The issue is that people try to do 'partial' dumps without reading the docs on what those switches actually do and the potential conflicts therein. For large installati

Re: Can I get some PostgreSQL developer feedback on these five general issues I have with PostgreSQL and its ecosystem?

That would entail building an AI into the code that would deal with all the possible OS(versions), Postgres(versions), hardware permutations. I... guess. If "AI" means "a series of ifs". Which is what software... is? I doubt that people who can make the world's most advanced open

Re: Can I get some PostgreSQL developer feedback on these five general issues I have with PostgreSQL and its ecosystem?

>> I have to agree that pg_dump is largely a step child backup program. >> It has consistently been found over the years to be lacking in a >> number of areas. Unfortunately, working on pg_dump isn't sexy and it >> is difficult to get volunteers or even paid resources to do such a >> thing.

Re: Can I get some PostgreSQL developer feedback on these five general issues I have with PostgreSQL and its ecosystem?

On 9/22/20 3:28 PM, tutilu...@tutanota.com wrote: Sep 21, 2020, 7:53 PM by j...@commandprompt.com: I have to agree that pg_dump is largely a step child backup program. It has consistently been found over the years to be lacking in a number of areas. Unfortunately, working on pg_dump

Re: Can I get some PostgreSQL developer feedback on these five general issues I have with PostgreSQL and its ecosystem?

Sep 21, 2020, 7:53 PM by j...@commandprompt.com: > I have to agree that pg_dump is largely a step child backup program. It has > consistently been found over the years to be lacking in a number of areas. > Unfortunately, working on pg_dump isn't sexy and it is difficult to get > volunteers or

Re: Can I get some PostgreSQL developer feedback on these five general issues I have with PostgreSQL and its ecosystem?

Joshua - adding to what Fabio said (with which I agree wholeheartedly!) - It will be worthwhile for you to itemize the attributes and needed features for making a final decision about the architecture of the application you plan to deploy. While you are familiar with PostgreSQL and like its featu

Re: Can I get some PostgreSQL developer feedback on these five general issues I have with PostgreSQL and its ecosystem?

On 21/09/2020 17:53, Joshua Drake wrote: 3. The ability to embed PG to run in an automatic, quiet manner as part of something else. I know about SQLite, but it's extremely limited to the point of being virtually useless IMO, which is why I cannot use that for anything nontrivial. I want my fa

Re: Can I get some PostgreSQL developer feedback on these five general issues I have with PostgreSQL and its ecosystem?

Howdy, First let me say thanks for the feedback! It is rare that we receive detailed "user feedback" on these lists so it is good to hear from the outside world. I am only going to address a few things as others have addressed the rest. > 2. pg_dump misinterprets non-ANSI values for the "--exclu

Re: Can I get some PostgreSQL developer feedback on these five general issues I have with PostgreSQL and its ecosystem?

Bruce Momjian writes: > On Mon, Sep 14, 2020 at 05:39:57PM -0400, Tom Lane wrote: >> On the other hand, the very same thing could be said of database names >> and role names, yet we have never worried much about whether those were >> encoding-safe when viewed from databases with different encoding

Re: Can I get some PostgreSQL developer feedback on these five general issues I have with PostgreSQL and its ecosystem?

On Mon, Sep 14, 2020 at 10:22:31PM +0200, tutilu...@tutanota.com wrote: > 4. There is no built-in means to have PG manage (or even suggest) indexes on > its own. Trying to figure out what indexes to create/delete/fine-tune, and > determine all the extremely complex rules for this art (yes, I just c

Re: Can I get some PostgreSQL developer feedback on these five general issues I have with PostgreSQL and its ecosystem?

On Mon, Sep 14, 2020 at 05:39:57PM -0400, Tom Lane wrote: > tutilu...@tutanota.com writes: > > 1. All non-ANSI characters are turned into "?"s for application_name. > > Yeah, that's hard to do much with unfortunately. We cannot assume that > all databases in an installation share the same encodin

Re: Can I get some PostgreSQL developer feedback on these five general issues I have with PostgreSQL and its ecosystem?

raf writes: > On Mon, Sep 14, 2020 at 05:39:57PM -0400, Tom Lane wrote: >> On the other hand, the very same thing could be said of database names >> and role names, yet we have never worried much about whether those were >> encoding-safe when viewed from databases with different encodings, nor >>

Re: Can I get some PostgreSQL developer feedback on these five general issues I have with PostgreSQL and its ecosystem?

On Mon, Sep 14, 2020 at 05:39:57PM -0400, Tom Lane wrote: > tutilu...@tutanota.com writes: > > 1. All non-ANSI characters are turned into "?"s for application_name. > > Yeah, that's hard to do much with unfortunately. We cannot assume that > all databases in an installation share the same encod

Re: Can I get some PostgreSQL developer feedback on these five general issues I have with PostgreSQL and its ecosystem?

tutilu...@tutanota.com writes: > 1. All non-ANSI characters are turned into "?"s for application_name. Yeah, that's hard to do much with unfortunately. We cannot assume that all databases in an installation share the same encoding, so for globally visible strings like application_name, the only s

Re: Can I get some PostgreSQL developer feedback on these five general issues I have with PostgreSQL and its ecosystem?

Regarding indexes, I recommend the website use-the-index-luke.com. That guy’s other website about modern SQL is also great. Regarding self-tuning, it was actually part of the original vision for relational databases that they would do that, but I’m not aware of any modern SQL database that does

Re: Can I get some PostgreSQL developer feedback on these five general issues I have with PostgreSQL and its ecosystem?

I can’t for the life of me imagine how you arrived at this. SQLite is very capable indeed. >Its dialect of SQL is (deliberately) very similar to Postgres, featuring such >niceties as >recursive CTEs and window functions, and it can handle heavy use and >multi-terabyte > databases if you need (cf

Re: Can I get some PostgreSQL developer feedback on these five general issues I have with PostgreSQL and its ecosystem?

On Sep 14, 2020, 13:22 -0700, tutilu...@tutanota.com, wrote: > 3. The ability to embed PG to run in an automatic, quiet manner as part of > something else. I know about SQLite, but it's extremely limited to the point > of being virtually useless IMO, which is why I cannot use that for anything >

Can I get some PostgreSQL developer feedback on these five general issues I have with PostgreSQL and its ecosystem?

Even though I highly appreciate that PostgreSQL, a database software which doesn't cost money, exists *at all*, that fact is oftentimes overshadowed by a small but important number of very frustrating issues which I consider to largely ruin the overall "experience" of using PostgreSQL. I'd call