Re: [HACKERS] ToDo: allow to get a number of processed rows by COPY statement [Review of Patch]

2012-09-27 Thread Pavel Stehule
2012/9/28 Amit Kapila : >> On Friday, September 28, 2012 2:28 AM Pavel Stehule wrote: >> Hello >> >> I reduced this patch as just plpgsql (SPI) problem solution. >> >> Correct generic solution needs a discussion about enhancing our libpq >> interface - we can take a number of returned rows, but we

Re: [HACKERS] ToDo: allow to get a number of processed rows by COPY statement [Review of Patch]

2012-09-27 Thread Amit Kapila
> On Friday, September 28, 2012 2:28 AM Pavel Stehule wrote: > Hello > > I reduced this patch as just plpgsql (SPI) problem solution. > > Correct generic solution needs a discussion about enhancing our libpq > interface - we can take a number of returned rows, but we should to get > number of pro

[HACKERS] setting per-database/role parameters checks them against wrong context

2012-09-27 Thread Peter Eisentraut
Example: create temporary table foo (a int); insert into foo values (1); alter role peter set temp_buffers = 120; ERROR: 22023: invalid value for parameter "temp_buffers": 120 DETAIL: "temp_buffers" cannot be changed after any temporary tables have been accessed in the session. Another example:

Re: [HACKERS] Patch: incorrect array offset in backend replication tar header

2012-09-27 Thread Brian Weaver
On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 6:43 PM, Tom Lane wrote: > Brian Weaver writes: >> OK, here is my attempt at patching and correcting the issue in this >> thread. I have done my best to test to ensure that hot standby, >> pg_basebackup, and pg_restore of older files work without issues. I >> think this mi

Re: [HACKERS] Switching timeline over streaming replication

2012-09-27 Thread Euler Taveira
On 27-09-2012 01:30, Amit Kapila wrote: > I understood this point, but currently in documentation of Timelines, this > usecase is not documented (Section 24.3.5). > Timeline documentation was written during PITR implementation. There wasn't SR yet. AFAICS it doesn't cite SR but is sufficiently ge

Re: [HACKERS] data to json enhancements

2012-09-27 Thread Andrew Dunstan
On 09/27/2012 06:58 PM, Hannu Krosing wrote: On 09/27/2012 09:18 PM, Andrew Dunstan wrote: On 09/27/2012 10:36 AM, Tom Lane wrote: Andrew Dunstan writes: On 09/27/2012 09:22 AM, Robert Haas wrote: Maybe I am being too pedantic about this and there is a way to make it all work nicely, but

Re: [HACKERS] MD's replication WAS Switching timeline over streaming replication

2012-09-27 Thread Josh Berkus
On 9/26/12 6:17 PM, m...@rpzdesign.com wrote: > Josh: > > The good part is you are the first person to ask for a copy > and I will send you the hook code that I have and you can be a good sport > and put it on GitHub, that is great, you can give us both credit for a > joint effort, I do the code,

Re: [HACKERS] Patch: incorrect array offset in backend replication tar header

2012-09-27 Thread Tom Lane
Magnus Hagander writes: > On Fri, Sep 28, 2012 at 12:55 AM, Tom Lane wrote: >> I think it's clear that we should make all versions of pg_restore accept >> either spelling of the magic string. It's less clear that we should >> change the output of pg_dump in back branches though. I think the onl

Re: [HACKERS] data to json enhancements

2012-09-27 Thread Hannu Krosing
On 09/27/2012 09:18 PM, Andrew Dunstan wrote: On 09/27/2012 10:36 AM, Tom Lane wrote: Andrew Dunstan writes: On 09/27/2012 09:22 AM, Robert Haas wrote: Maybe I am being too pedantic about this and there is a way to make it all work nicely, but it sure feels like using the casting machinery h

Re: [HACKERS] Patch: incorrect array offset in backend replication tar header

2012-09-27 Thread Magnus Hagander
On Fri, Sep 28, 2012 at 12:55 AM, Tom Lane wrote: > Andrew Dunstan writes: >> On 09/27/2012 06:30 PM, Tom Lane wrote: >>> Having said all that, I don't think we have a lot of choices here. >>> A "tar format" output option that isn't actually tar format has hardly >>> any excuse to live at all. >

Re: [HACKERS] Patch: incorrect array offset in backend replication tar header

2012-09-27 Thread Tom Lane
Andrew Dunstan writes: > On 09/27/2012 06:30 PM, Tom Lane wrote: >> Having said all that, I don't think we have a lot of choices here. >> A "tar format" output option that isn't actually tar format has hardly >> any excuse to live at all. > I agree, but it's possibly worth pointing out that GNU t

Re: [HACKERS] Patch: incorrect array offset in backend replication tar header

2012-09-27 Thread Magnus Hagander
On Fri, Sep 28, 2012 at 12:45 AM, Tom Lane wrote: > Magnus Hagander writes: >> Ah, yeah, that should also work I guess. But you could also just leave >> the the data in the temporary tarfile the whole time. IIRC, you can >> just cat one tarfile to the end of another one, right? > > Not if they're

Re: [HACKERS] Patch: incorrect array offset in backend replication tar header

2012-09-27 Thread Andrew Dunstan
On 09/27/2012 06:30 PM, Tom Lane wrote: Magnus Hagander writes: On Tue, Sep 25, 2012 at 4:07 AM, Tom Lane wrote: I'm a bit concerned about backwards compatibility issues. It looks to me like existing versions of pg_restore will flat out reject files that have a spec-compliant "ustar\0" MAGI

Re: [HACKERS] Patch: incorrect array offset in backend replication tar header

2012-09-27 Thread Tom Lane
Magnus Hagander writes: > Ah, yeah, that should also work I guess. But you could also just leave > the the data in the temporary tarfile the whole time. IIRC, you can > just cat one tarfile to the end of another one, right? Not if they're written according to spec, I think. There is an EOF marke

Re: [HACKERS] Patch: incorrect array offset in backend replication tar header

2012-09-27 Thread Tom Lane
Brian Weaver writes: > OK, here is my attempt at patching and correcting the issue in this > thread. I have done my best to test to ensure that hot standby, > pg_basebackup, and pg_restore of older files work without issues. I > think this might be a larger patch that expected, I took some > liber

Re: [HACKERS] Patch: incorrect array offset in backend replication tar header

2012-09-27 Thread Magnus Hagander
On Fri, Sep 28, 2012 at 12:30 AM, Tom Lane wrote: > Magnus Hagander writes: >> On Tue, Sep 25, 2012 at 4:07 AM, Tom Lane wrote: >>> I'm a bit concerned about backwards compatibility issues. It looks to >>> me like existing versions of pg_restore will flat out reject files that >>> have a spec-c

Re: [HACKERS] Patch: incorrect array offset in backend replication tar header

2012-09-27 Thread Tom Lane
Magnus Hagander writes: > On Tue, Sep 25, 2012 at 4:07 AM, Tom Lane wrote: >> I'm a bit concerned about backwards compatibility issues. It looks to >> me like existing versions of pg_restore will flat out reject files that >> have a spec-compliant "ustar\0" MAGIC field. Is it going to be >> suf

Re: [HACKERS] Patch: incorrect array offset in backend replication tar header

2012-09-27 Thread Magnus Hagander
On Fri, Sep 28, 2012 at 12:12 AM, Brian Weaver wrote: > Magnus, > > I probably just did a poor job of explaining what I wanted to try. I > was going to have the base backup open two connections; one to stream > the tar archive, the second to receive the wal files like > pg_receivexlog. This is wh

Re: [HACKERS] Patch: incorrect array offset in backend replication tar header

2012-09-27 Thread Brian Weaver
OK, here is my attempt at patching and correcting the issue in this thread. I have done my best to test to ensure that hot standby, pg_basebackup, and pg_restore of older files work without issues. I think this might be a larger patch that expected, I took some liberties of trying to clean up a bit

Re: [HACKERS] Patch: incorrect array offset in backend replication tar header

2012-09-27 Thread Brian Weaver
Magnus, I probably just did a poor job of explaining what I wanted to try. I was going to have the base backup open two connections; one to stream the tar archive, the second to receive the wal files like pg_receivexlog. The wal files received on the second connection would be streamed to a tempo

Re: [HACKERS] Patch: incorrect array offset in backend replication tar header

2012-09-27 Thread Magnus Hagander
On Tue, Sep 25, 2012 at 4:07 AM, Tom Lane wrote: > Brian Weaver writes: >> While researching the way streaming replication works I was examining >> the construction of the tar file header. By comparing documentation on >> the tar header format from various sources I certain the following >> patch

Re: [HACKERS] Patch: incorrect array offset in backend replication tar header

2012-09-27 Thread Magnus Hagander
On Tue, Sep 25, 2012 at 5:08 PM, Brian Weaver wrote: > Unless I misread the code, the tar format and streaming xlog are > mutually exclusive. Considering my normal state of fatigue it's not > unlikely. I don't want to have to set my wal_keep_segments > artificially high just for the backup Correc

Re: [HACKERS] ToDo: allow to get a number of processed rows by COPY statement [Review of Patch]

2012-09-27 Thread Pavel Stehule
Hello I reduced this patch as just plpgsql (SPI) problem solution. Correct generic solution needs a discussion about enhancing our libpq interface - we can take a number of returned rows, but we should to get number of processed rows too. A users should to parse this number from completationTag,

Re: [HACKERS] ALTER command reworks

2012-09-27 Thread Alvaro Herrera
Excerpts from Kohei KaiGai's message of lun sep 10 08:08:32 -0300 2012: > As attached, I split off the original one into three portions; for set-schema, > set-owner and rename-to. Please apply them in order of patch filename. > Regarding to the error message, RenameErrorMsgAlreadyExists() was adde

Re: [HACKERS] data to json enhancements

2012-09-27 Thread Andrew Dunstan
On 09/27/2012 10:36 AM, Tom Lane wrote: Andrew Dunstan writes: On 09/27/2012 09:22 AM, Robert Haas wrote: Maybe I am being too pedantic about this and there is a way to make it all work nicely, but it sure feels like using the casting machinery here is blending together two different concepts

Re: [HACKERS] Oid registry

2012-09-27 Thread Magnus Hagander
On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 10:02 PM, Robert Haas wrote: > On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 2:34 PM, Magnus Hagander wrote: >> I'm not sure that's a way we really want to go down. How do we define which >> third party vendors would get to reserve oids? And how many? And under what >> other potential terms? >>

Re: [HACKERS] autovacuum stress-testing our system

2012-09-27 Thread Simon Riggs
On 27 September 2012 15:57, Alvaro Herrera wrote: > Excerpts from Simon Riggs's message of jue sep 27 06:51:28 -0300 2012: >> On 26 September 2012 15:47, Alvaro Herrera wrote: >> > >> > Really, as far as autovacuum is concerned, it would be much more useful >> > to be able to reliably detect that

Re: [HACKERS] psql, remove include of psqlscan.c

2012-09-27 Thread Karl O. Pinc
On 09/27/2012 02:28:49 PM, Tom Lane wrote: > "Karl O. Pinc" writes: > > What I really _want_ is to be able get a bit string of many > > sql statements from the user and return the results, statuses, > > etc. of executing each statement. Just what psql does when, > > say, fed a file from stdin. >

Re: [HACKERS] Oid registry

2012-09-27 Thread Robert Haas
On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 2:34 PM, Magnus Hagander wrote: > I'm not sure that's a way we really want to go down. How do we define which > third party vendors would get to reserve oids? And how many? And under what > other potential terms? > > Seems like we'd set ourselves up for endless discussions

Re: [HACKERS] psql, remove include of psqlscan.c

2012-09-27 Thread Tom Lane
"Karl O. Pinc" writes: > On 09/27/2012 11:02:42 AM, Tom Lane wrote: >> Rather, the problem is that the server might know about some newer >> lexical feature, and so might the application, but if libpq is behind >> the times then it's broken. > If the application knows about the newer feature and

Re: [HACKERS] pg_signal_backend() asymmetry

2012-09-27 Thread Alvaro Herrera
Excerpts from Noah Misch's message of miƩ sep 26 17:54:43 -0300 2012: > I'm marking this patch Ready for Committer. I suggest backpatching it to 9.2; > the patch corrects an oversight in 9.2 changes. There's more compatibility > value in backpatching than in retaining distinct behavior for 9.2 on

Re: [HACKERS] psql, remove include of psqlscan.c

2012-09-27 Thread Tom Lane
"Karl O. Pinc" writes: > What I'm thinking of in libpq is the ability to give it big string > with many sql statements and have it hand back each statement > so the client can then submit it to the server for execution. > What I really _want_ is to be able get a bit string of many > sql statements

Re: [HACKERS] proposal - assign result of query to psql variable

2012-09-27 Thread Pavel Stehule
Hello 2012/9/21 Shigeru HANADA : > Hi Pavel, > > (2012/09/21 2:01), Pavel Stehule wrote: >>> - Is it intentional that \gset can set special variables such as >>> AUTOCOMMIT and HOST? I don't see any downside for this behavior, >>> because \set also can do that, but it is not documented nor tested

Re: [HACKERS] patch: shared session variables

2012-09-27 Thread Pavel Stehule
Hello 2012/9/24 Heikki Linnakangas : > Having read through this thread, the consensus seems to be that we don't > want this patch as it is (and I agree with that). > > As I understand it, you are trying to solve two problems: > > 1. Passing parameters to a DO statement. You could quote the paramet

Re: [HACKERS] Oid registry

2012-09-27 Thread Magnus Hagander
On Sep 27, 2012 9:52 AM, "Robert Haas" wrote: > > On Wed, Sep 26, 2012 at 10:08 AM, Andrew Dunstan wrote: > > How many would EDB need for it to be useful? > > Looks like we currently have about 160 hard-coded OIDs in our fork > that are not in PostgreSQL, across all catalogs. Actually, there are

Re: [HACKERS] psql, remove include of psqlscan.c

2012-09-27 Thread Karl O. Pinc
On 09/27/2012 11:02:42 AM, Tom Lane wrote: > Rather, the problem is that the server might know about some newer > lexical feature, and so might the application, but if libpq is behind > the times then it's broken. If the application knows about the newer feature and wants to use it, is it unreas

Re: [HACKERS] psql, remove include of psqlscan.c

2012-09-27 Thread Karl O. Pinc
On 09/27/2012 11:02:42 AM, Tom Lane wrote: > Alvaro Herrera writes: > A larger point is that I don't believe this is actually going to help > anybody, because of mismatch of requirements not only implementation > language. JDBC couldn't use a libpq lexer implementation even > without > the lang

Re: [HACKERS] Oid registry

2012-09-27 Thread David Johnston
> > > I did like the alternative idea upthread of UUIDs for types which > > would give them a virtually unlimited space. > > Yeah, me too. That doesn't require a centralized authority (hence, no > debates here about whether a given extension is important enough to merit > an allocation of a give

Re: [HACKERS] [PATCH] Support for Array ELEMENT Foreign Keys

2012-09-27 Thread Noah Misch
On Tue, Sep 18, 2012 at 05:52:51PM +0200, Marco Nenciarini wrote: > please find attached the refreshed v1 patch. I perused this version in comparison to the last version I reviewed, finding minor problems. First, a warning: tablecmds.c: In function `ATExecAddConstraint': tablecmds.c:5898: wa

Re: [HACKERS] Oid registry

2012-09-27 Thread Robert Haas
On Wed, Sep 26, 2012 at 10:08 AM, Andrew Dunstan wrote: > How many would EDB need for it to be useful? Looks like we currently have about 160 hard-coded OIDs in our fork that are not in PostgreSQL, across all catalogs. Actually, there are probably some things we could do to reduce that number, w

Re: [HACKERS] psql, remove include of psqlscan.c

2012-09-27 Thread Tom Lane
Alvaro Herrera writes: > But I think I see what Tom objection to it is: if we "export" this > capability to libpq applications, then we set it in stone to a certain > extent: exactly how things are split would become part of the API, so to > speak. Upgrading to a newer libpq could break applicati

Re: [HACKERS] XLogInsert scaling, revisited

2012-09-27 Thread Heikki Linnakangas
On 24.09.2012 21:06, Fujii Masao wrote: The patch could be applied cleanly and the compile could be successfully done. Thanks for the testing! But when I ran initdb, I got the following assertion error: -- $ initdb -D data --locale=C --encoding=UTF-8 T

Re: [HACKERS] psql, remove include of psqlscan.c

2012-09-27 Thread John R Pierce
On 09/27/12 8:41 AM, Alvaro Herrera wrote: But I think I see what Tom objection to it is: if we "export" this capability to libpq applications, then we set it in stone to a certain extent: exactly how things are split would become part of the API, so to speak. Upgrading to a newer libpq could br

Re: [HACKERS] psql, remove include of psqlscan.c

2012-09-27 Thread Alvaro Herrera
Excerpts from Karl O. Pinc's message of jue sep 27 12:29:53 -0300 2012: > The reason I want this is because I don't want to have to > rewrite the sql parser in PHP for inclusion in phpPgAdmin. > (I did this once, and it was such a big ugly patch > it never got around to getting into the mainline p

Re: [HACKERS] psql, remove include of psqlscan.c

2012-09-27 Thread Karl O. Pinc
On 09/27/2012 10:07:48 AM, Tom Lane wrote: > "Karl O. Pinc" writes: > > This patch (psql_remove_include.patch) eliminates > > the #include of psqlscan.c at the bottom of mainloop.c. > > I don't really see that this is enough of an improvement to justify > depending on a non-portable flex feature

Re: [HACKERS] psql, remove include of psqlscan.c

2012-09-27 Thread Tom Lane
"Karl O. Pinc" writes: > This patch (psql_remove_include.patch) eliminates > the #include of psqlscan.c at the bottom of mainloop.c. I don't really see that this is enough of an improvement to justify depending on a non-portable flex feature. > I'm thinking of exposing enough of the psql parser

Re: [HACKERS] autovacuum stress-testing our system

2012-09-27 Thread Alvaro Herrera
Excerpts from Simon Riggs's message of jue sep 27 06:51:28 -0300 2012: > On 26 September 2012 15:47, Alvaro Herrera wrote: > > > > Really, as far as autovacuum is concerned, it would be much more useful > > to be able to reliably detect that a table has been recently vacuumed, > > without having t

[HACKERS] psql, remove include of psqlscan.c

2012-09-27 Thread Karl O. Pinc
Hi, This patch (psql_remove_include.patch) eliminates the #include of psqlscan.c at the bottom of mainloop.c. The attached patch uses the %top{} flex feature introduced in flex 2.5.30 released 2003-4-1. (See the NEWS file for flex.) The good news is that config/programs.m4 requires flex >= 2.5

Re: [HACKERS] data to json enhancements

2012-09-27 Thread Misa Simic
Hm... IMO, '[1,2,3]'::json '[1,2,3]'::text::json '[1,2,3]'::int[]::json are the same thing... (though I am not sure '[1,2,3]'::int[] is valid in postgres...) in js var o = JSON.parse(result_of_any_cast_above) should produce array of 3 integer '[1,2,3]' is different then'"[1,2,3]"' If there is

Re: [HACKERS] data to json enhancements

2012-09-27 Thread Robert Haas
On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 10:09 AM, Andrew Dunstan wrote: > So how about this suggestion: we'll look for a visible function named > "as_json" or some such which has one parameter of the given type and returns > json, and if it's present use it instead of the standard text > representation. As an opt

Re: [HACKERS] data to json enhancements

2012-09-27 Thread Tom Lane
Andrew Dunstan writes: > On 09/27/2012 09:22 AM, Robert Haas wrote: >> Maybe I am being too pedantic about this and there is a way to make it >> all work nicely, but it sure feels like using the casting machinery >> here is blending together two different concepts that are only >> sometimes the sa

Re: [HACKERS] data to json enhancements

2012-09-27 Thread Andrew Dunstan
On 09/27/2012 09:22 AM, Robert Haas wrote: On Wed, Sep 26, 2012 at 1:46 PM, Tom Lane wrote: Also, on reflection I'm not sure about commandeering cast-to-json for this --- aren't we really casting to "json member" or something like that? The distinction between a container and its contents see

Re: [v9.3] Extra Daemons (Re: [HACKERS] elegant and effective way for running jobs inside a database)

2012-09-27 Thread Alvaro Herrera
Excerpts from Kohei KaiGai's message of jue sep 27 01:06:41 -0300 2012: > Hi Alvaro, > > Let me volunteer for reviewing, of course, but now pgsql_fdw is in my queue... Sure, thanks -- keep in mind I entered this patch in the next commitfest, so please do invest more effort in the ones in the comm

Re: [HACKERS] data to json enhancements

2012-09-27 Thread Merlin Moncure
On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 8:22 AM, Robert Haas wrote: > On Wed, Sep 26, 2012 at 1:46 PM, Tom Lane wrote: >> Also, on reflection I'm not sure about commandeering cast-to-json for >> this --- aren't we really casting to "json member" or something like >> that? The distinction between a container and

Re: [HACKERS] Modest proposal: run check_keywords.pl on every build

2012-09-27 Thread Robert Haas
On Wed, Sep 26, 2012 at 9:16 PM, Tom Lane wrote: > Any objections? None, and my apologies for the oversight. I would really like to have a cross-check for duplicated OIDs, too. After a couple of years I think I have learned most of the rules for what stuff I need to cross-check before committing

Re: [HACKERS] [WIP] Performance Improvement by reducing WAL for Update Operation

2012-09-27 Thread Amit Kapila
> On Thursday, September 27, 2012 9:12 AM Noah Misch wrote: > On Mon, Sep 24, 2012 at 10:57:02AM +, Amit kapila wrote: > > Rebased version of patch based on latest code. > > I like the direction you're taking with this patch; the gains are > striking, > especially considering the isolation of

Re: [HACKERS] system_information.triggers & truncate triggers

2012-09-27 Thread Robert Haas
On Wed, Sep 26, 2012 at 10:59 AM, Christopher Browne wrote: > A different place where I wound up having to jump through considerable > hoops when doing schema analytics was vis-a-vis identifying functions. > I need to be able to compare schemas across databases, so oid-based > identification of f

Re: [HACKERS] data to json enhancements

2012-09-27 Thread Robert Haas
On Wed, Sep 26, 2012 at 1:46 PM, Tom Lane wrote: > Also, on reflection I'm not sure about commandeering cast-to-json for > this --- aren't we really casting to "json member" or something like > that? The distinction between a container and its contents seems > important here. With a container ty

Re: [HACKERS] Re: [WIP] Performance Improvement by reducing WAL for Update Operation

2012-09-27 Thread Amit Kapila
> On Thursday, September 27, 2012 4:12 PM Heikki Linnakangas wrote: > On 25.09.2012 18:27, Amit Kapila wrote: > > If you feel it is must to do the comparison, we can do it in same way > > as we identify for HOT? > > Yeah. (But as discussed, I think it would be even better to just treat > the old a

Re: [HACKERS] Re: [WIP] Performance Improvement by reducing WAL for Update Operation

2012-09-27 Thread Heikki Linnakangas
On 25.09.2012 18:27, Amit Kapila wrote: If you feel it is must to do the comparison, we can do it in same way as we identify for HOT? Yeah. (But as discussed, I think it would be even better to just treat the old and new tuple as an opaque chunk of bytes, and run them through a generic delta

Re: [HACKERS] autovacuum stress-testing our system

2012-09-27 Thread Simon Riggs
On 26 September 2012 15:47, Alvaro Herrera wrote: > > Really, as far as autovacuum is concerned, it would be much more useful > to be able to reliably detect that a table has been recently vacuumed, > without having to request a 10ms-recent pgstat snapshot. That would > greatly reduce the amount

Re: [HACKERS] EVENT Keyword and CREATE TABLE

2012-09-27 Thread Dimitri Fontaine
Tom Lane writes: > It's a bug. The event-trigger patch added EVENT as a new keyword, but > forgot to list it in the unreserved_keywords production, which is > necessary to make it actually act unreserved. Oh. Oops. Sorry about that. > I've committed a fix, and manually verified there are no oth

Re: [HACKERS] Switching timeline over streaming replication

2012-09-27 Thread Hannu Krosing
On 09/26/2012 01:02 AM, m...@rpzdesign.com wrote: John: Who has the money for oracle RAC or funding arrogant bastard Oracle CEO Ellison to purchase another island? Postgres needs CHEAP, easy to setup, self healing, master-master-master-master and it needs it yesterday. I was able to patch

Re: [HACKERS] Oid registry

2012-09-27 Thread Daniel Farina
On Tue, Sep 25, 2012 at 5:36 PM, Peter Eisentraut wrote: > On Mon, 2012-09-24 at 21:18 -0700, Daniel Farina wrote: >> The gap between >> pre-JSON-in-the-standard-library in Python, Ruby, et al and >> post-JSON-in-stdlib was much smaller. > > Except in Python they renamed the thing. By 'smaller' I