Josh Berkus wrote:
My problem with this whole idea is that it seems to be very MySQL-specific.
Why aren't we providing help for users migrating from Oracle, Sybase,
Informix, Ingres, DB2, SQLServer and Firebird, to name but a few? And if we
turn all those on by default, we'll have a
Josh,
On Mon, Jan 25, 2010 at 1:47 PM, Josh Berkus j...@agliodbs.com wrote:
My problem with this whole idea is that it seems to be very MySQL-specific.
Why aren't we providing help for users migrating from Oracle, Sybase,
Informix, Ingres, DB2, SQLServer and Firebird, to name but a few? And
Baron,
Hypothetically, if I had time to help with something like that, is
there a wiki or something where I could help draft it, without needing
to get all elbows-deep into the documentation itself?
wiki.postgresql.org.
--Josh
--
Sent via pgsql-hackers mailing list
2010/1/25 Baron Schwartz ba...@xaprb.com:
Hi Cédric,
On Sun, Jan 24, 2010 at 5:11 PM, Cédric Villemain
cedric.villemain.deb...@gmail.com wrote:
'psql --help mysql' (or 'psql --tips mysql' ) might be good to call a
special helper : I don't see the point to introduce that kind of
things when
If this option is designed to help people's transition - basically to
get to them before they've got to most of the manual - having to turn
it on will be pointless. It needs to be active by default. A way to
avoid it being a default option in psql may be setting an alias as
part of package
* Alastair Bell Turner thebellh...@gmail.com [100125 11:07]:
If this option is designed to help people's transition - basically to
get to them before they've got to most of the manual - having to turn
it on will be pointless. It needs to be active by default. A way to
avoid it being a default
Alastair Bell Turner wrote:
If this option is designed to help people's transition - basically to
get to them before they've got to most of the manual - having to turn
it on will be pointless. It needs to be active by default.
My problem with this whole idea is that it seems to be very
On Mon, Jan 25, 2010 at 6:14 PM, Andrew Dunstan and...@dunslane.net wrote:
My problem with this whole idea is that it seems to be very MySQL-specific.
Why aren't we providing help for users migrating from Oracle, Sybase,
Informix, Ingres, DB2, SQLServer and Firebird, to name but a few? And if
On Mon, Jan 25, 2010 at 11:14 AM, Andrew Dunstan and...@dunslane.net wrote:
Alastair Bell Turner wrote:
If this option is designed to help people's transition - basically to
get to them before they've got to most of the manual - having to turn
it on will be pointless. It needs to be active by
On Mon, Jan 25, 2010 at 06:06:53PM +0200, Alastair Bell Turner wrote:
..
without having to add a switch to their command lines. It's not going
to have anything to say to experienced psql users anyway so it would
probably not bug anyone enough to turn it off.
I would so use this feature going
On Mon, Jan 25, 2010 at 10:49:55AM -0600, Ross J. Reedstrom wrote:
On Mon, Jan 25, 2010 at 06:06:53PM +0200, Alastair Bell Turner wrote:
..
without having to add a switch to their command lines. It's not going
to have anything to say to experienced psql users anyway so it would
probably
Ross J. Reedstrom wrote:
So a quick mapping of most-needed commands, and a pointer to the docs for the
full
ramifications and subtle differences seems to fit the existing
documentation module.
And that's been done at least twice already:
Ross J. Reedstrom wrote:
On Mon, Jan 25, 2010 at 06:06:53PM +0200, Alastair Bell Turner wrote:
..
without having to add a switch to their command lines. It's not going
to have anything to say to experienced psql users anyway so it would
probably not bug anyone enough to turn it off.
I
Hi Robert,
On Mon, Jan 25, 2010 at 11:41 AM, Robert Haas robertmh...@gmail.com wrote:
Maybe instead of (or in addition to) providing MySQL-specific help, we
should find a way to emphasize the \d and \d table commands,
Right, it's like cd and ls at the shell prompt. It's like walking
into a
On Mon, Jan 25, 2010 at 1:05 PM, Baron Schwartz ba...@xaprb.com wrote:
Hi Robert,
On Mon, Jan 25, 2010 at 11:41 AM, Robert Haas robertmh...@gmail.com wrote:
Maybe instead of (or in addition to) providing MySQL-specific help, we
should find a way to emphasize the \d and \d table commands,
My problem with this whole idea is that it seems to be very MySQL-specific.
Why aren't we providing help for users migrating from Oracle, Sybase,
Informix, Ingres, DB2, SQLServer and Firebird, to name but a few? And if we
turn all those on by default, we'll have a pretty horrible banner when
David Fetter just pointed this thread out to me. I think anything
that makes PostgreSQL more accessible could be a good thing. In some
sense it's harder to learn a technology when you are very familiar
with another similar one already. Is it easier to learn to type on
Dvorak, or to learn QWERTY
2010/1/24 Baron Schwartz ba...@xaprb.com:
David Fetter just pointed this thread out to me. I think anything
that makes PostgreSQL more accessible could be a good thing. In some
sense it's harder to learn a technology when you are very familiar
with another similar one already. Is it easier
Hi Cédric,
On Sun, Jan 24, 2010 at 5:11 PM, Cédric Villemain
cedric.villemain.deb...@gmail.com wrote:
'psql --help mysql' (or 'psql --tips mysql' ) might be good to call a
special helper : I don't see the point to introduce that kind of
things when it is useless for most of our users.
I think
* David Christensen:
Currently, a session will look like the following:
machack:machack:5485=# show tables;
See:
\d
or \? for general help with psql commands
machack:machack:5485=#
Said formatting looks like it could use some improvement, open to
suggestions, but
On Jan 21, 2010, at 11:48 AM, Florian Weimer wrote:
* David Christensen:
Currently, a session will look like the following:
machack:machack:5485=# show tables;
See:
\d
or \? for general help with psql commands
machack:machack:5485=#
Said formatting looks like it could
2010/1/21 David Christensen da...@endpoint.com:
On Jan 21, 2010, at 11:48 AM, Florian Weimer wrote:
* David Christensen:
Currently, a session will look like the following:
machack:machack:5485=# show tables;
See:
\d
or \? for general help with psql commands
David Christensen da...@endpoint.com writes:
Should the error messages between the SHOW cases and the others be
consistent (ERROR: unsupported command or similar)? It's worth
noting that this is only in the psql client, but we could simulate the
ereport output from the server.
No. Not
On Jan 21, 2010, at 12:02 PM, Tom Lane wrote:
David Christensen da...@endpoint.com writes:
Should the error messages between the SHOW cases and the others be
consistent (ERROR: unsupported command or similar)? It's worth
noting that this is only in the psql client, but we could simulate
this is mostly true. I don't think any Oracle DBA will expect ALL_TABLES our
DBA_TABLES to be there.
however DESCRIBE and HELP would be the two that come to mind.
greg
On 20 Jan 2010 02:56, Greg Sabino Mullane g...@turnstep.com wrote:
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Why
On tis, 2010-01-19 at 11:43 -0800, Jeff Davis wrote:
I'll make an analogy to:
$ git difff
git: 'difff' is not a git-command. See 'git --help'.
Did you mean this?
diff
This is presumably spelling-based, which might be an interesting feature
(although probably useless for
On tis, 2010-01-19 at 16:00 -0600, David Christensen wrote:
Currently, a session will look like the following:
machack:machack:5485=# show tables;
See:
\d
or \? for general help with psql commands
machack:machack:5485=#
I think if you make show tables and the
Peter Eisentraut wrote:
On tis, 2010-01-19 at 16:00 -0600, David Christensen wrote:
Currently, a session will look like the following:
machack:machack:5485=# show tables;
See:
\d
or \? for general help with psql commands
machack:machack:5485=#
I
On ons, 2010-01-20 at 09:05 -0500, Bruce Momjian wrote:
I disagree. No one has complained that we are being a smartass by
reporting this for help in psql:
You are using psql, the command-line interface to PostgreSQL.
Type: \copyright for distribution terms
On Wed, Jan 20, 2010 at 9:05 AM, Bruce Momjian br...@momjian.us wrote:
Peter Eisentraut wrote:
On tis, 2010-01-19 at 16:00 -0600, David Christensen wrote:
Currently, a session will look like the following:
machack:machack:5485=# show tables;
See:
\d
or \?
On Wed, Jan 20, 2010 at 9:26 AM, Peter Eisentraut pete...@gmx.net wrote:
On ons, 2010-01-20 at 09:05 -0500, Bruce Momjian wrote:
I disagree. No one has complained that we are being a smartass by
reporting this for help in psql:
You are using psql, the command-line interface to
Robert Haas wrote:
I'm actually no big advocate of the \d commands. They're basically
magical queries that you can't easily see or edit - I've more than
once wished for a WHERE clause (\df WHERE Result data type =
'internal' or what have you.
You *can* easily see them, at least. Run
Robert Haas robertmh...@gmail.com writes:
If what the user wanted was to be using MySQL, he is out of luck
anyway.
That's not what we're talking about. We're talking about having a nice
client tool for those people having to do both MySQL and PostgreSQL
support, or new to PostgreSQL and comming
Dimitri Fontaine wrote:
Robert Haas robertmh...@gmail.com writes:
If what the user wanted was to be using MySQL, he is out of luck
anyway.
That's not what we're talking about. We're talking about having a nice
client tool for those people having to do both MySQL and PostgreSQL
support,
Dimitri Fontaine dfonta...@hi-media.com wrote:
I'll give my vote to Peter's idea that show tables; should better
act as if you typed \d.
I guess we don't need a tables GUC. Show all wouldn't include it?
Would we require a semicolon? Do we support \d-style globs?
Still seems kinda messy.
I would personally emulate \d and take the chance for showing a funny
warning, something like: hey, it's not MySql! or similar. I am sure
we will Finder something appropriate. :)
Inviato da iPhone
Il giorno 20/gen/2010, alle ore 16.30, Kevin Grittner kevin.gritt...@wicourts.gov
ha
Dimitri Fontaine dfonta...@hi-media.com writes:
I'll give my vote to Peter's idea that show tables; should better act as
if you typed \d.
We have previously considered and rejected this type of approach, for
example in the pgsql-bugs discussion I referenced upthread.
I don't see what the gain
Tom Lane t...@sss.pgh.pa.us writes:
The proposed patch to just provide a helpful message
is only a dozen or two lines, which is about the right amount of effort
to expend in this direction IMHO.
For the record, agreed on the commands for which we have no obvious
equivalent :)
Regards,
--
Hey -hackers,
I whipped up a quick patch for supporting some of the common mysql-
based meta commands; this is different than some things which have
been discussed in the past, in that it provides just a quick direction
to the appropriate psql command, not an actual alternative syntax for
On Tue, 2010-01-19 at 12:44 -0600, David Christensen wrote:
Hey -hackers,
I whipped up a quick patch for supporting some of the common mysql-
based meta commands; this is different than some things which have
been discussed in the past, in that it provides just a quick direction
to
Jeff Davis wrote:
On Tue, 2010-01-19 at 12:44 -0600, David Christensen wrote:
Hey -hackers,
I whipped up a quick patch for supporting some of the common mysql-
based meta commands; this is different than some things which have
been discussed in the past, in that it provides just a quick
I'm not convinced that we should start adding syntax helpers like that
to psql. For now it is an arbitrary subset of MySQL stuff, are we going
to add oracle/db2/mssql/drizzle/mariadb and whatnot later on?
Also I can already see people asking well you already know that this is
that command
On Tue, 2010-01-19 at 11:43 -0800, Jeff Davis wrote:
I'm not convinced that we should start adding syntax helpers like that
to psql. For now it is an arbitrary subset of MySQL stuff, are we going
to add oracle/db2/mssql/drizzle/mariadb and whatnot later on?
Also I can already see people
Jeff Davis wrote:
I'm not convinced that we should start adding syntax helpers like that
to psql. For now it is an arbitrary subset of MySQL stuff, are we going
to add oracle/db2/mssql/drizzle/mariadb and whatnot later on?
Also I can already see people asking well you already know that this is
David Christensen escreveu:
I whipped up a quick patch for supporting some of the common mysql-based
meta commands; this is different than some things which have been
discussed in the past, in that it provides just a quick direction to the
appropriate psql command, not an actual alternative
On Tue, 2010-01-19 at 20:52 +0100, Stefan Kaltenbrunner wrote:
Jeff Davis wrote:
I'm not convinced that we should start adding syntax helpers like that
to psql. For now it is an arbitrary subset of MySQL stuff, are we going
to add oracle/db2/mssql/drizzle/mariadb and whatnot later on?
Jeff Davis pg...@j-davis.com writes:
That being said, I don't have much of an opinion, so if you see a
problem, then we can forget it. After all, we would need some kind of a
prefix anyway to avoid conflicting with actual SQL... maybe \m? And
that defeats a lot of the purpose.
Yeah, requiring
On Tue, Jan 19, 2010 at 21:44, Tom Lane t...@sss.pgh.pa.us wrote:
Jeff Davis pg...@j-davis.com writes:
That being said, I don't have much of an opinion, so if you see a
problem, then we can forget it. After all, we would need some kind of a
prefix anyway to avoid conflicting with actual SQL...
The previous discussion started from the idea that only DESCRIBE,
SHOW DATABASES/TABLES, and USE were worth worrying about. If we
were to agree that we'd go that far and no farther, the potential
conflict with SQL syntax would be pretty limited. I have little
enough experience with mysql to not
Tom Lane wrote:
Jeff Davis pg...@j-davis.com writes:
That being said, I don't have much of an opinion, so if you see a
problem, then we can forget it. After all, we would need some kind of a
prefix anyway to avoid conflicting with actual SQL... maybe \m? And
that defeats a lot of the
Tom Lane wrote:
Jeff Davis pg...@j-davis.com writes:
That being said, I don't have much of an opinion, so if you see a
problem, then we can forget it. After all, we would need some kind of a
prefix anyway to avoid conflicting with actual SQL... maybe \m? And
that defeats a lot of the purpose.
David Christensen wrote:
+ if (MYSQL_HELP_CHECK(use))
+ {
+ MYSQL_HELP_OUTPUT(\\c database);
+ }
[snip]
+ else if (MYSQL_HELP_CHECK(load data infile))
+
On Jan 19, 2010, at 2:58 PM, Stefan Kaltenbrunner wrote:
Tom Lane wrote:
Jeff Davis pg...@j-davis.com writes:
That being said, I don't have much of an opinion, so if you see a
problem, then we can forget it. After all, we would need some kind
of a
prefix anyway to avoid conflicting with
On Jan 19, 2010, at 3:12 PM, Andrew Dunstan wrote:
David Christensen wrote:
+ if (MYSQL_HELP_CHECK(use))
+ {
+ MYSQL_HELP_OUTPUT(\\c database);
+ }
[snip]
+ else if
On Jan 19, 2010, at 12:58 PM, Stefan Kaltenbrunner wrote:
well providing a hint that one should use different command will only lead to
the path uhm why not make it work as well
I don't think so. People know it's a different database. They'd be thrilled
just to get the hint. I think it's a
David Christensen wrote:
Quite apart from any considerations covered by other people, these
two at least could be positively misleading ... the psql commands are
not exact equivalents of the MySQL commands, AIUI.
The \copy could definitely be considered a stretch; I know \c supports
more
David Christensen da...@endpoint.com writes:
On Jan 19, 2010, at 2:58 PM, Stefan Kaltenbrunner wrote:
well those are the most common ones I guess for the current version
of the mysql commandline client - but what about future versions or
the fact that we only have partial replacements for
David Christensen da...@endpoint.com writes:
On Jan 19, 2010, at 3:12 PM, Andrew Dunstan wrote:
Quite apart from any considerations covered by other people, these
two at least could be positively misleading ... the psql commands
are not exact equivalents of the MySQL commands, AIUI.
The
On Tue, 2010-01-19 at 11:25 -0800, Jeff Davis wrote:
I like that idea. There may be a lot of MySQL people that want to use
the next postgresql release, and this would make it easier.
I disagree. If they want to use PostgreSQL, they should learn our
syntax. How can you make sure that this will
On Jan 19, 2010, at 3:39 PM, Tom Lane wrote:
David Christensen da...@endpoint.com writes:
On Jan 19, 2010, at 2:58 PM, Stefan Kaltenbrunner wrote:
well those are the most common ones I guess for the current version
of the mysql commandline client - but what about future versions or
the fact
On Jan 19, 2010, at 3:57 PM, Devrim GÜNDÜZ wrote:
On Tue, 2010-01-19 at 11:25 -0800, Jeff Davis wrote:
I like that idea. There may be a lot of MySQL people that want to use
the next postgresql release, and this would make it easier.
I disagree. If they want to use PostgreSQL, they should
On Jan 19, 2010, at 1:39 PM, Tom Lane wrote:
I thought Magnus had a really good point: covering these four cases will
probably be enough to teach newbies to look at psql's backslash
commands. And once they absorb that, we're over a big hump.
+1
On Jan 19, 2010, at 1:57 PM, Devrim GÜNDÜZ
On Tue, Jan 19, 2010 at 5:14 PM, David E. Wheeler da...@kineticode.com wrote:
Why would they want more? It's not MySQL, and they know that. If we give them
some very minor helpful hints for the most common things they try to do, it
would be a huge benefit to them. I know I've badly wanted the
On Tue, Jan 19, 2010 at 3:14 PM, David E. Wheeler da...@kineticode.com wrote:
On Jan 19, 2010, at 1:39 PM, Tom Lane wrote:
I thought Magnus had a really good point: covering these four cases will
probably be enough to teach newbies to look at psql's backslash
commands. And once they absorb
Robert Haas robertmh...@gmail.com writes:
Although the deadline for patches for 8.5 has supposedly already passed
I guess it already got more review than some of the commit fest items
already…
Regards,
--
dim
--
Sent via pgsql-hackers mailing list (pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org)
To make
On 20/01/2010 6:31 AM, Rob Wultsch wrote:
As a MySQL DBA the commands I think are most useful are:
show databases (please punt this, most MySQL dba's that I have worked
with will need to consider the difference between a db and a schema)
use database (please punt)
So perhaps for SHOW
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Why would they want more? It's not MySQL, and they know that.
If we give them some very minor helpful hints for the most
common things they try to do,
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