Re: [HACKERS] Named vs Unnamed Partitions

2008-01-10 Thread Markus Schiltknecht
Hi, Simon Riggs wrote: On Wed, 2008-01-09 at 18:04 +0100, Markus Schiltknecht wrote: What do you think about letting the database system know the split point vs it having to find optimal split points automatically? For me, managing the table's files can be separate from the chunking that

Re: [HACKERS] Named vs Unnamed Partitions

2008-01-09 Thread Simon Riggs
On Wed, 2008-01-09 at 02:25 +, Gregory Stark wrote: Markus Schiltknecht [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: There are two very distinct ways to handle partitioning. For now, I'm calling them named and unnamed partitioning. The naming is precisely the useful part in that it is how the DBA

Re: [HACKERS] Named vs Unnamed Partitions

2008-01-09 Thread Markus Schiltknecht
Simon Riggs wrote: I have to admit I always found it kludgy to have objects named invoices_2000_JAN and invoices_2000_FEB and so on. It's kind of an meta denormalization. But so is specifying where clauses repeatedly. The idea for using the WHERE clauses was to specifically avoid naming. I

Re: [HACKERS] Named vs Unnamed Partitions

2008-01-09 Thread Simon Riggs
On Wed, 2008-01-09 at 16:20 +0100, Markus Schiltknecht wrote: Simon Riggs wrote: I have to admit I always found it kludgy to have objects named invoices_2000_JAN and invoices_2000_FEB and so on. It's kind of an meta denormalization. But so is specifying where clauses repeatedly. The

Re: [HACKERS] Named vs Unnamed Partitions

2008-01-09 Thread Simon Riggs
On Wed, 2008-01-09 at 15:53 +, Gregory Stark wrote: Simon Riggs [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Perhaps a good analogy is indexes. Index names are themselves kind of redundant and people usually use names which encode up most of the information of the definition. But the reason you need

Re: [HACKERS] Named vs Unnamed Partitions

2008-01-09 Thread Gregory Stark
Simon Riggs [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Wed, 2008-01-09 at 02:25 +, Gregory Stark wrote: Without naming the DBA would have to specify the same ranges every time he wants to change the properties. He might do a SET read_only WHERE created_on '2000-01-01' one day then another SET

Re: [HACKERS] Named vs Unnamed Partitions

2008-01-09 Thread Markus Schiltknecht
Hi, Simon Riggs wrote: With that in mind, can I clarify what you're thinking, please? Sure, I can try to clarify: 2) the things you've been discussing are essential requirements of partitioning and we could never consider it complete until they are also included and we must therefore talk

Re: [HACKERS] Named vs Unnamed Partitions

2008-01-09 Thread Chris Browne
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Markus Schiltknecht) writes: Simon Riggs wrote: With that in mind, can I clarify what you're thinking, please? Sure, I can try to clarify: 2) the things you've been discussing are essential requirements of partitioning and we could never consider it complete until they

Re: [HACKERS] Named vs Unnamed Partitions

2008-01-09 Thread Simon Riggs
On Wed, 2008-01-09 at 17:30 +0100, Markus Schiltknecht wrote: Simon Riggs wrote: With that in mind, can I clarify what you're thinking, please? Sure, I can try to clarify: 2) the things you've been discussing are essential requirements of partitioning and we could never consider it

Re: [HACKERS] Named vs Unnamed Partitions

2008-01-09 Thread Markus Schiltknecht
Hi, Simon Riggs wrote: When I delete all rows WHERE some_date 'cut-off date' on a segment boundary value that would delete all segments that met the criteria. The following VACUUM will then return those segments to be read-write, where they can then be refilled with new incoming data. The only

Re: [HACKERS] Named vs Unnamed Partitions

2008-01-09 Thread Simon Riggs
On Wed, 2008-01-09 at 18:04 +0100, Markus Schiltknecht wrote: So not convinced of the need for named sections of tables yet. It all seems like detail, rather than actually what we want for managing large tables. What do you think about letting the database system know the split point

Re: [HACKERS] Named vs Unnamed Partitions

2008-01-09 Thread Dimitri Fontaine
Hi, Le Wednesday 09 January 2008 19:27:41 Simon Riggs, vous avez écrit : The WHERE clause approach might easily allow more than 2 chunks and they need not be logically contiguous. So the phrase split point doesn't really fit because it implies a one dimensional viewpoint, but I'm happy for

Re: [HACKERS] Named vs Unnamed Partitions

2008-01-09 Thread Simon Riggs
On Wed, 2008-01-09 at 21:29 +0100, Dimitri Fontaine wrote: Le Wednesday 09 January 2008 19:27:41 Simon Riggs, vous avez écrit : The WHERE clause approach might easily allow more than 2 chunks and they need not be logically contiguous. So the phrase split point doesn't really fit because it

Re: [HACKERS] Named vs Unnamed Partitions

2008-01-09 Thread Gavin Sherry
On Wed, Jan 09, 2008 at 08:51:30PM +, Simon Riggs wrote: That's what I would have done if it was easier to do with constraint exclusion (did only date partitioning), as the reporting queries will always have some server (stats by services, each service being installed on 1 or

Re: [HACKERS] Named vs Unnamed Partitions

2008-01-09 Thread Joshua D. Drake
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Wed, 9 Jan 2008 23:52:09 +0100 Gavin Sherry [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: te restrictions. Hmm, well if you found declaring the partitions a problem with constraint exclusion it's not going to be any easier using other declarative approaches.

[HACKERS] Named vs Unnamed Partitions

2008-01-08 Thread Markus Schiltknecht
Hi, IMO, the lengthy discussion about Segment Exclusion and Segment Visibility Maps has long turned into a discussion about partitioning in general. I'm thankful for all the new insights it has brought me and I want to continue sharing my view on things. What's following is highly

Re: [HACKERS] Named vs Unnamed Partitions

2008-01-08 Thread Gregory Stark
Markus Schiltknecht [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: There are two very distinct ways to handle partitioning. For now, I'm calling them named and unnamed partitioning. I had most of a draft email written which I seem to have lost in a reboot. To a large degree I was on the same line of thought as