D13481: Recommend window border size "None"

hpereiradacosta added a comment. For the record. As far as I can tell, MSWindows(r) decorations do not have "no borders". They have a 1 pixel dark border (that blends with the shadow), on all sides. This essentially fixes all the regressions that this patch introduces, that were mentionned b

D13481: Recommend window border size "None"

This revision was automatically updated to reflect the committed changes. Closed by commit R31:e15989fb1f0d: Recommend window border size "None" (authored by romangg). REPOSITORY R31 Breeze CHANGES SINCE LAST UPDATE https://phabricator.kde.org/D13481?vs=36009&id=59296 REVISION DETAIL http

D13481: Recommend window border size "None"

pedrogomes1698 added a comment. Plasma is already my number one but I do notice inconsistencies here and there and getting something like in that picture would really be amazing. Thanks for your work! REPOSITORY R31 Breeze REVISION DETAIL https://phabricator.kde.org/D13481 To: romangg

D13481: Recommend window border size "None"

ngraham added a comment. Yep, that's more or less the idea! :) REPOSITORY R31 Breeze REVISION DETAIL https://phabricator.kde.org/D13481 To: romangg, #plasma, #vdg Cc: pedrogomes1698, hein, januz, ngraham, davidedmundson, graesslin, abetts, mart, plasma-devel, ragreen, Pitel, ZrenBot, le

D13481: Recommend window border size "None"

pedrogomes1698 added a comment. Well I gotta say this (https://ibb.co/deWY8U) looks gorgeous, no blue line around the white box, everything is simple and really elegant, it would be awesome if dolphin actually looked like that. Sorry for getting off topic. REPOSITORY R31 Breeze REVISION

D13481: Recommend window border size "None"

abetts added a comment. I think we were able to identify the issues, even the ones pointed out in the discussions earlier in this ticket. I feel that we have a path forward. REPOSITORY R31 Breeze REVISION DETAIL https://phabricator.kde.org/D13481 To: romangg, #plasma, #vdg Cc: pedrogome

D13481: Recommend window border size "None"

ngraham added a comment. Yes, the plan was (is?) to make the content area touch the window edge with no separation at all, the way it does in for example apps on GNOME, ElementaryOS, Cinnamon, Windows, and macOS, not to mention our own Kirigami apps and some non-Kirigami apps like Konsole an

D13481: Recommend window border size "None"

pedrogomes1698 added a comment. I'm on board with removing the borders, just wondering if things like this will be changed: Dolphin has nice spacing with borders: https://ibb.co/eur6tU With no borders it's way too close to the edge: https://ibb.co/gwXCYU REPOSITORY R31 B

D13481: Recommend window border size "None"

hein added a comment. This one is definitely tricky. I don't think it's insurmountable to track whether there's movement or not prior to a release, and if not, raise the lower window and synthesise press+release events to send to it. But it would't completely eliminate the dead zone problem,

D13481: Recommend window border size "None"

graesslin added a comment. Nate, I cannot believe what I read here. Every week you do a blog post about usability. In other reviews you draw the usability card so often that it annoys me. And here you want to break user setups and break with "form follows function". This is absolutely unbeli

D13481: Recommend window border size "None"

hein added a comment. Here's a realistic scenario for the "Dead Zone Problem": I had quick-tiled two windows next to each other on the desktop. In the left-hand window, I had a scrollable list. The right-hand window was a text editor. I was going through the list on the left, and turning

D13481: Recommend window border size "None"

ngraham added a comment. In D13481#282788 , @graesslin wrote: > I think we should go back to the drawing board and think about what really is wanted and needed. I want to remind that the original idea was to still have round corners. As I said

D13481: Recommend window border size "None"

abetts added a comment. In D13481#282788 , @graesslin wrote: > In D13481#282653 , @mart wrote: > > > In D13481#280767 , @romangg wrote: > > > > > What

D13481: Recommend window border size "None"

graesslin added a comment. In D13481#282653 , @mart wrote: > In D13481#280767 , @romangg wrote: > > > What I thought of as a solution back when it happened was to check if it's a single click on the

D13481: Recommend window border size "None"

mart added a comment. In D13481#280767 , @romangg wrote: > What I thought of as a solution back when it happened was to check if it's a single click on the dead zone without mouse movement, then activate the window below. Since if you want to us

D13481: Recommend window border size "None"

ngraham added a comment. In D13481#282096 , @romangg wrote: > Other platforms, which have virtual border and no real borders around windows, do they also have the deadzone? Is it known to be a usability problem for users of these platforms?

D13481: Recommend window border size "None"

romangg added a comment. Other platforms, which have virtual border and no real borders around windows, do they also have the deadzone? Is it known to be a usability problem for users of these platforms? REPOSITORY R31 Breeze REVISION DETAIL https://phabricator.kde.org/D13481 To: roman

D13481: Recommend window border size "None"

graesslin added a comment. Please don't play with the users. I would have never pushed a change to test how things work. They are not our testbed. That it worked on other platforms doesn't mean a thing. Maybe that other platform cannot even run into the dead zone situation. My point is:

D13481: Recommend window border size "None"

mart added a comment. the dead zone is actually a point.. tough that's a thing that a big company would have an actual usability testing lab for . To me is very probably something that doesn't get even noticed (i always had side borders disabled but now that i read here of the issue is the f

D13481: Recommend window border size "None"

ngraham added a comment. In D13481#281295 , @graesslin wrote: > In D13481#280754 , @ngraham wrote: > > > Right. That's not a workflow I think I've ever seen anyone do with a windowed game. > >

D13481: Recommend window border size "None"

graesslin added a comment. To everyone here: you are extremely experienced developers and software users, partially working in the window manager area. Of course you understand why the dead zone happens and of course you are able to adapt to it. But please think of your users. I fear they wo

D13481: Recommend window border size "None"

graesslin added a comment. In D13481#280754 , @ngraham wrote: > Right. That's not a workflow I think I've ever seen anyone do with a windowed game. Did you read my comment? Let me quote: "please don't tell me that nobody would use a fps

D13481: Recommend window border size "None"

januz added a comment. +1 I've been using borderless windows all the time since I came back to ~~KDE~~ Plasma and haven't had any workflow issues. REPOSITORY R31 Breeze REVISION DETAIL https://phabricator.kde.org/D13481 To: romangg, #plasma, #vdg Cc: januz, ngraham, davidedmundson, grae

D13481: Recommend window border size "None"

ngraham added a comment. In D13481#280767 , @romangg wrote: > What I thought of as a solution back when it happened was to check if it's a single click on the dead zone without mouse movement, then activate the window below. Since if you want to

D13481: Recommend window border size "None"

romangg added a comment. FWIW when I enabled borderless windows for these patches to test out the first time ever, I tried to click in the dead zone to activate the window below and then was for a moment annoyed that it didn't work. After this one "incident" I can't remember any other ti

D13481: Recommend window border size "None"

ngraham added a comment. Right. That's not a workflow I think I've ever seen anyone do with a windowed game. For anyone who wants to do that, they can always turn the borders back on. Or just resize one of the windows slightly so the dead zone doesn't overlap the game window. Or not try to p

D13481: Recommend window border size "None"

davidedmundson added a comment. The dead zone exists if you have a focussed lower stacked client. i.e set window A to always on top put window A right next to window B (our FPS) focus window B move the mouse to the edge between A and B but still slightly over B input is not given

D13481: Recommend window border size "None"

ngraham added a comment. What is the problem with an FPS in windowed mode? If anything, the potential problem would be a windowed RTS or other game where you're expected to move the view by touching a window edge. But even in this case, the "dead zone" is //outside// the window rather than i

D13481: Recommend window border size "None"

graesslin added a comment. In D13481#279575 , @davidedmundson wrote: > There are two visual hints when the mouse is inside the deadzone. > > You would still get the different cursor > The client gets the mouse left event and would not s

D13481: Recommend window border size "None"

ngraham added a comment. Does this/should this also implement the diff from D13278 ? REPOSITORY R31 Breeze REVISION DETAIL https://phabricator.kde.org/D13481 To: romangg, #plasma, #vdg Cc: ngraham, davidedmundson, graesslin, abetts, mart, plasma-devel

D13481: Recommend window border size "None"

davidedmundson added a comment. There are two visual hints when the mouse is inside the deadzone. You would still get the different cursor The client gets the mouse left event and would not show any hover effect on whatever control might be there. REPOSITORY R31 Breeze REVISION DET

D13481: Recommend window border size "None"

graesslin added a comment. I realized that there's yet another problem with the approach: if two windows border and the window with pointer focus is lower in the stacking order this would create a dead zone in the window. With compositing disabled this would be worse as there's not even a vi

D13481: Recommend window border size "None"

abetts added a comment. +1 REPOSITORY R31 Breeze REVISION DETAIL https://phabricator.kde.org/D13481 To: romangg, #plasma, #vdg Cc: abetts, mart, plasma-devel, ragreen, Pitel, ZrenBot, lesliezhai, ali-mohamed, jensreuterberg, sebas, apol

D13481: Recommend window border size "None"

mart added a comment. +1 REPOSITORY R31 Breeze REVISION DETAIL https://phabricator.kde.org/D13481 To: romangg, #plasma, #vdg Cc: mart, plasma-devel, ragreen, Pitel, ZrenBot, lesliezhai, ali-mohamed, jensreuterberg, abetts, sebas, apol

D13481: Recommend window border size "None"

romangg created this revision. romangg added reviewers: Plasma, VDG. Restricted Application added a project: Plasma. Restricted Application added a subscriber: plasma-devel. romangg requested review of this revision. REVISION SUMMARY Adds a recommendation of border size "None" for the new KWin m