Re: [platform-dev] Has the time come?

On 29.03.2021 08:24, Christoph Läubrich wrote: I think I recently read about that's it is possible to have a "button" in a html page that links to an Oomph setup file and simply creates the IDE+checkouts and so on. I think that should be the very first thing any project that wishes to attract d

Re: [platform-dev] Has the time come?

> Though, it could be sufficient to write a decent manual that > describes the way of working within the Eclipse eco-system Developers tend to not being very attracted by reading long manuals. Also these manuals tend to degrade over time as slight variants or adjustments are not updated. M2E is

Re: [platform-dev] Has the time come?

On the other hand, working together is also difficult in the GitHub workflow if we work with forks. I realized this when I was working with bug 572080 Starring: Repo X-Eclipse, fork X-Jill, and fork X-Jack Story: Jill works on her fork and finds an unrelated issue. She reports this and Jack decid

Re: [platform-dev] Has the time come?

I want to mention one thing in Gerrit that I probably do wrong or is indeed difficult: Working together on the same change. When I work on my own, I can sequentially push new changes. If someone is helping me (e.g. changed the commit message in the Gerrit UI, or anything more substantial) then my

Re: [platform-dev] Has the time come?

Thanks for your input and contributions, Ingo. We hope many may follow ;) ___ platform-dev mailing list platform-dev@eclipse.org To unsubscribe from this list, visit https://www.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/platform-dev

Re: [platform-dev] Has the time come?

Hi all, I’m just a 2-times contributor, and these are my 2 cents: The eco-system contributors have to face in order to contribute should be either easy to learn - or easy to understand - and in the best case it also should be snazzy. And Bugzilla/Gerrit is imho neither of them. Also, I remember

Re: [platform-dev] Has the time come?

On Thu, 18 Mar 2021 at 09:31, Mickael Istria wrote: > You picked the example that suits your answer. Picking > https://github.com/eclipse/eclipse.jdt.core with 198 stars and 127 forks > can bring different conclusions. > I think this one is a great example. There are 8 open PRs (and 6 closed one

Re: [platform-dev] Has the time come?

A friendly reminder to no one in particular. We are all in this together. Let's not form camps and bury ourselves in the trenches. Pros and cons are valuable, personal attacks en frustration venting not. If you want to write a hot-headed response, do it tomorrow (a piece of advice I should take m

Re: [platform-dev] Has the time come?

On Thu, Mar 18, 2021 at 12:55 PM Sebastian Zarnekow < sebastian.zarne...@gmail.com> wrote: > An attempt to encourage the existing community to make a decision based on > facts is put aside in favor of baseless claims about contributors who will > do fixes on a project with millions of lines of cod

Re: [platform-dev] Has the time come?

@Dirk + @Lars As noted before, its all git (gerrit/gihub/...) and gerrit also don't work without special git configs for fetch/push To replicate similar behavior you should be able to do something like this (untested as I simply sync forks from time to time with an automatic script like des

Re: [platform-dev] Has the time come?

I agree. Maybe we can allow ECA contributors to push to a branch in the main repo? On Thu, Mar 18, 2021 at 2:13 PM Lars Vogel wrote: > Hi Dirk, > > > For GitHub projects I always need to fork, update my fork, create the > PR, force push on every review comment. > > I also find the Github proces

Re: [platform-dev] Has the time come?

Great discussions. We all want the best of Eclipse. Some remarks to Rolf's post. > *From an external perspective, the project seems outdated and dying. For instance, many of the website pages and wiki pages contain outdated content (e.g. https://www.eclipse.org/eclipse/development/ next release i

Re: [platform-dev] Has the time come?

Hi Dirk, > For GitHub projects I always need to fork, update my fork, create the PR, > force push on every review comment. I also find the Github process ackwards for contributions to other repos, not sure why Github does not allow a simple way of synchronization of forks. But as a committer yo

Re: [platform-dev] Has the time come?

Mickael Istria schrieb am Do., 18. März 2021, 12:00: > > I have the impression that the majority of committers who also happen to > use GitHub for other (Eclipse or not) projects do agree that GitHub is an > enhancement for the project community at large over Gerrit. > I disagree! Once Gerrit is

Re: [platform-dev] Has the time come?

That was a very sad read for me. An attempt to encourage the existing community to make a decision based on facts is put aside in favor of baseless claims about contributors who will do fixes on a project with millions of lines of code *on the phone* *on a bus* is far from helpful. To put more ane

Re: [platform-dev] Has the time come?

On Thu, Mar 18, 2021 at 10:22 AM Ed Merks wrote: > I'm not sure many of us are convinced that GitHub itself is a magic > bullet despite anecdotes to the contrary. > I have the impression that the majority of committers who also happen to use GitHub for other (Eclipse or not) projects do agree th

Re: [platform-dev] Has the time come?

On 18.03.2021 09:51, Mickael Istria wrote: But I think Oomph cannot be the silver-bullet of attracting new contributors: Oomph is still an Eclipse specific technology and workflow newcomers will need to learn and read about in order to become efficient. I'm not sure many of us are convinced t

Re: [platform-dev] Has the time come?

On Thu, Mar 18, 2021 at 9:31 AM Rolf Theunissen wrote: > Though, it could be sufficient to write a decent manual that describes the > way of working within the Eclipse eco-system, targeted at people who are > used to the GitHub workflow. I.e. write down the steps in the workflow and > for each se

Re: [platform-dev] Has the time come?

Slightly late comment on the goal. The goal is to facilitate contributors and get more contributions. I guess that we can agree on the goal. Then you can start thinking about how to reach that goal, and moving to GitHub could be an option and part of the solution. Though, it could be sufficient t

Re: [platform-dev] Has the time come?

> > > It just seems like the website is basically the only repo we cannot move > easily because of current deployment. > We can use the double push method. We have a CI job that pulls the website from Git and pushes it to the deployment repo. The link below has some extra HUGO processing that we d

Re: [platform-dev] Has the time come?

On Tue, Mar 16, 2021 at 7:04 PM Christoph Läubrich wrote: > At least ASF "gitbox" support a "double-master-setup": Apache GitBox is not exactly a comfortable solution. I submitted a few patches to Maven, and while submitting the patch per se was quite easy and convenient (just a GitHub pull re

Re: [platform-dev] Has the time come?

> It's not a rule, it's just the way it works Right! jumped to false conclusions. Thanks for clarifying. 🤐 ___ platform-dev mailing list platform-dev@eclipse.org To unsubscribe from this list, visit https://www.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/platform-dev

Re: [platform-dev] Has the time come?

No offense taken Wim, no worries. It's not a rule, it's just the way it works. The publishing process only looks at repo hosted at git.eclipse.org/c/www.eclipse.org for several reasons, IIRC: * Use direct file system access to poll for changes (/gitroo

Re: [platform-dev] Has the time come?

Mikael, I did not mean to lecture you (after reading my reply again 🙏). It's funny, really; we have this hosting rule, but also a trick how to circumvent it 😉 On Tue, Mar 16, 2021 at 4:57 PM Wim Jongman wrote: > > Just a quick note that content served by https://www.eclipse.org/ (and > as such

Re: [platform-dev] Has the time come?

At least ASF "gitbox" support a "double-master-setup": https://gitbox.apache.org/ from a git perspective this would also be possible without any tooling support: - clone the "master"-git repo - add the "mirror" as a another origin - pull the "mirror" orgin and merge/cherry-pick the PR from th

Re: [platform-dev] Has the time come?

The idea of allowing contributors to decide how they want to contribute is an interesting idea. Eclipse CDT has had a mirror on github for a long time, and, as you can't disable Pull Requests on a GitHub repo, we get a sporadic PR via the GH web interface. I wonder whether as an early transition po

Re: [platform-dev] Has the time come?

> Just a quick note that content served by https://www.eclipse.org/ (and as such https://www.eclipse.org/eclipse/) must currently be hosted on a git repository hosted at https://git.eclipse.org/c/www.eclipse.org. That's how it works Git is a blokchain secured source repo. It does not matter where

Re: [platform-dev] Has the time come?

Instead of pushing to a branch in the main repo which is for committers only, there is also the "Fork Workflow". This would be the workflow for contributors. I've added this to the wiki: https://wiki.eclipse.org/Platform-releng/Migration_To_GitHub ___ pl

Re: [platform-dev] Has the time come?

/eclipse.git/ > <https://git.eclipse.org/c/www.eclipse.org/eclipse.git/> can be migrated. I > don’t see an issue here. > > > From: Aleksandar Kurtakov mailto:akurt...@redhat.com>> > Sent: 16 March 2021 12:56 > To: Eclipse platform general developers list. &

Re: [platform-dev] Has the time come?

The goal is not just to change tools for the sake of changing tools, as there is a relative consensus that the current tools we have (BZ and Gerrit) are pleasant enough to work with. The goal is to facilitate contributions and get more contributors, this is one of the key factors the sustainability

Re: [platform-dev] Has the time come?

I preface everything I say on this thread with the observation that "I am completely uniformed on the details"...  All this squash-merge, force-push means very little to me so I'm admittedly highly ignorant... I continue to get the sense that decisions are being made on what feels like a knee-

Re: [platform-dev] Has the time come?

Note that GitHub doesn't mandate GitHub action nor exclude Gerrit. Wild Web Developer uses GitHub actions and ci.eclipse.org (controlled by a Jenkinsfile), and it's working all right. We could (and IMO should) just start moving code + review for some of the repos, adapt the URIs here and there and

Re: [platform-dev] Has the time come?

JDT gerrit build takes one hour at least. 10 patches with 3 rebuilds and we have no free builds. That is not enough only for a single project. Am 16. März 2021 12:10:16 MEZ schrieb Lars Vogel : >https://github.com/pricing > >2,000 Actions minutes/month Free for public repositories so we would >ge

Re: [platform-dev] Has the time come?

That would be a bad restriction for the for project. Some projects use actions already like Windowbuilder and Wild Web Developer, AFAIK they have not seen issues with time limitations yet. Link for windowbuilder: https://github.com/eclipse/windowbuilder On the plus side, every fork would get the s

Re: [platform-dev] Has the time come?

I may be wrong but I think the Eclipse foundation would fall under the category GitHub Free for Organizations so as a total it would get 2000 mins for *all* its repositories according to https://docs.github.com/en/github/setting-up-and-managing-billing-and-payments-on-github/about-billing-for-githu

Re: [platform-dev] Has the time come?

https://github.com/pricing 2,000 Actions minutes/month Free for public repositories so we would get ~ 33 hours of free and fast build time per month and repo. Not sufficient for our daily aggregator build but really nice for validation builds and sufficient for most platform repo activities AFAICS

Re: [platform-dev] Has the time come?

As far as I know, there are usage limits for organizations when it comes to Github runners / actions - even for open source projects. Can you please share the source of your information, Lars? On Tue, Mar 16, 2021 at 11:42 AM Lars Vogel wrote: > Moving to Github would allow us to use Github acti

Re: [platform-dev] Has the time come?

Moving to Github would allow us to use Github actions for build verification (using Maven), which can be easily configured to be cross platform and cross Java versions and are free for Open Source projects and run on the Github infrastructure which seems better in terms of scalability and availabil

Re: [platform-dev] Has the time come?

On Tue, Mar 16, 2021 at 10:54 AM Sebastian Zarnekow < sebastian.zarne...@gmail.com> wrote: > Looking at the https://github.com/eclipse/lemminx-maven/pull/205 I don't > see the comments *on* the previous commit that became obsolete due to a > force push. I can still see them as outdated in the line

Re: [platform-dev] Has the time come?

Looking at the https://github.com/eclipse/lemminx-maven/pull/205 I don't see the comments *on* the previous commit that became obsolete due to a force push. I can still see them as outdated in the linear conversation though. This is also the case on Gitlab though. So the force-push habit (which is

Re: [platform-dev] Has the time come?

Force-Push is simply bad and there is a reason git explicitly require the user to 'force' it. If one want's to have "one-change-one-commit" he/she can simply use the "sqash-merge" button. So I don't really see any difference from a user-pov. Am 16.03.21 um 10:27 schrieb Nikita Nemkin: On Tu

Re: [platform-dev] Has the time come?

The _major_ difference is that GitLab supports Gerrit-like review > workflow: it preserves force pushed merge request versions and > comments on them, while GitHub doesn't. > That is not true anymore (it did change about 2 years ago IIRC). See for instance https://github.com/eclipse/lemminx-maven/

Re: [platform-dev] Has the time come?

On Tue, Mar 16, 2021 at 2:03 PM Christoph Läubrich wrote: > > Github / Gitlab are all based on git, so the "workflow" is more a matter > of (web) UIs. The _major_ difference is that GitLab supports Gerrit-like review workflow: it preserves force pushed merge request versions and comments on them,

Re: [platform-dev] Has the time come?

Github / Gitlab are all based on git, so the "workflow" is more a matter of (web) UIs. If a certain "usage" is recommended/preferred I would suggest to integrate support for this in EGit (it might autodetect a project as "eclipse" based on a special marker file or even a config file in the re

Re: [platform-dev] Has the time come?

I don't think I have enough details to make it a valuable addition to the wiki page. As far as I understood the thing is that GitLab is located in Europe while GitHub is located in the US. With the move of the foundation to Europe this is something to consider. Maybe a webmaster or someone from th

Re: [platform-dev] Has the time come?

Given past trends (twists and turns), I would be slightly concerned that the long term trend might be that we should all use GitLab and that the Foundation will want to support only one thing and rather two, to save resource.  Of course that could be a misguided thought, but resource savings do

Re: [platform-dev] Has the time come?

Dirk, All, Please at this concern to the wiki page. Besides the legal consideration, is there a difference in the intended workflow on GitHub or GitLab? IMHO the discussion should first be about the envisioned workflow, the differences between that envisioned workflow and the current workflow, an

Re: [platform-dev] Has the time come?

On Mon, Mar 15, 2021 at 8:22 PM Dirk Fauth via platform-dev < platform-dev@eclipse.org> wrote: > Is there a decision made with regards to GitHub vs GitLab? As far as I > understood there are legal constraints to consider. That is why the > foundation prefers GitLab. > GitLab is a great tool, but

Re: [platform-dev] Has the time come?

https://git.eclipse.org/c/www.eclipse.org/eclipse.git/ can be migrated. I don’t see an issue here. From: Aleksandar Kurtakov Sent: 16 March 2021 12:56 To: Eclipse platform general developers list. Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [platform-dev] Has the time come? On Tue, Mar 16, 2021 at 7

Re: [platform-dev] Has the time come?

el Istria > *Sent:* 16 March 2021 00:54 > *To:* Eclipse platform general developers list. > *Subject:* [EXTERNAL] Re: [platform-dev] Has the time come? > > > > Hi, > > I'm in favor of moving the website if it seems straightforward. For the > website, we could e

Re: [platform-dev] Has the time come?

platform general developers list. Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [platform-dev] Has the time come? Hi, I'm in favor of moving the website if it seems straightforward. For the website, we could even use GitHub issues and shut down the bugzilla component as I don't think there is much substa

Re: [platform-dev] Has the time come?

Hi, I'm in favor of moving the website if it seems straightforward. For the website, we could even use GitHub issues and shut down the bugzilla component as I don't think there is much substance in the tracked issues. But I think it would be necessary to have PMC agreeing first. On Monday, March

Re: [platform-dev] Has the time come?

Is there a decision made with regards to GitHub vs GitLab? As far as I understood there are legal constraints to consider. That is why the foundation prefers GitLab. Wim Jongman schrieb am Mo., 15. März 2021, 20:03: > Hi, > > Before this stalls again, do we have a team? > > I see Rolf, Mickael,

Re: [platform-dev] Has the time come?

Hi, Before this stalls again, do we have a team? I see Rolf, Mickael, Sravan, and myself on the wiki page. What is the first step? I am happy to execute it. Shall I attempt to port the platform website to Git? https://wiki.eclipse.org/Platform-releng/Migration_To_GitHub Cheers, Wim On Thu

Re: [platform-dev] Has the time come?

I think the move to GitLab is for projects that stay on the foundation infra. On Thu, Mar 11, 2021 at 5:05 PM Jonah Graham wrote: > > > On Thu, 11 Mar 2021 at 11:00, Ed Merks wrote: > >> I'm not sure if anyone mentioned the "forced" migration to gitlab? >> >> Does it make sense to migrate anyth

Re: [platform-dev] Has the time come?

On Thu, 11 Mar 2021 at 11:00, Ed Merks wrote: > I'm not sure if anyone mentioned the "forced" migration to gitlab? > > Does it make sense to migrate anything to github if it will subsequently > need to be migrated to gitlab anyway? > > I'm just asking... > This is news to me. I have not heard an

Re: [platform-dev] Has the time come?

On Thu, Mar 11, 2021 at 6:01 PM Ed Merks wrote: > I'm not sure if anyone mentioned the "forced" migration to gitlab? > > Does it make sense to migrate anything to github if it will subsequently > need to be migrated to gitlab anyway? > Where is this coming from? I thought that gitlab is an optio

Re: [platform-dev] Has the time come?

On Thu, Mar 11, 2021 at 4:56 PM Wim Jongman wrote: > How about starting with the websites. In 99% of the cases, the websites > don't need to dance with Gerrit, but ATM is required. > Good idea. ___ platform-dev mailing list platform-dev@eclipse.org To

Re: [platform-dev] Has the time come?

I'm not sure if anyone mentioned the "forced" migration to gitlab? Does it make sense to migrate anything to github if it will subsequently need to be migrated to gitlab anyway? I'm just asking... On 11.03.2021 16:55, Wim Jongman wrote: On Wed, Mar 10, 2021 at 5:27 PM Mickael Istria

Re: [platform-dev] Has the time come?

On Wed, Mar 10, 2021 at 5:27 PM Mickael Istria wrote: > I'd advise starting by evaluating for instance migration of PDE to > GitHub: > How about starting with the websites. In 99% of the cases, the websites don't need to dance with Gerrit, but ATM is required. The websites are ideal for casual

Re: [platform-dev] Has the time come?

dopting these scripts to work on JIRO I > ended up breaking that workflow. If anyone likes to contribute, this would > be a good place to start. > > > > Thanks > > Sravan > > > > *From:* Aleksandar Kurtakov > *Sent:* 10 March 2021 21:02 > *To:* Eclipse platform

Re: [platform-dev] Has the time come?

On Wed, Mar 10, 2021 at 8:48 PM Mickael Istria wrote: > The thing is that, technically speaking, GitHub is not an improvement over > Gerrit and Bugzilla. A few things are better, many things are worse... > Going to GitHub wouldn't improve the workflows themselves. The only major > benefit is the

Re: [platform-dev] Has the time come?

On Wed, Mar 10, 2021 at 4:31 PM Aleksandar Kurtakov wrote: > > > On Wed, Mar 10, 2021 at 4:56 PM Wim Jongman wrote: > >> Maybe we can skip adding features completely for one or two releases and >> have all hands focusing entirely on the releng process. >> > > This is what some of us have been do

Re: [platform-dev] Has the time come?

> > > Eclipse has a GUI, and it's really helpful to develop GUIs using a tool >> which allows inline images. GitHub PRs and issues work really well together. >> > > It looks like Bugzilla can do that: > https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1472522 . Would you mind > opening a bug to Eclipse

Re: [platform-dev] Has the time come?

The thing is that, technically speaking, GitHub is not an improvement over Gerrit and Bugzilla. A few things are better, many things are worse... Going to GitHub wouldn't improve the workflows themselves. The only major benefit is the amount people who are familiar with it. You also need to put in

Re: [platform-dev] Has the time come?

How about videos? The GitHub CEO's twitter gives a decent glimpse of their changelog and velocity: https://twitter.com/natfriedman/status/1365393828622921728?s=20 There's a broader problem of "vendors doing work for you" versus "every workflow improvement we ever get is something we debate and wor

Re: [platform-dev] Has the time come?

On Wed, Mar 10, 2021 at 7:00 PM Ned Twigg wrote: > Eclipse has a GUI, and it's really helpful to develop GUIs using a tool > which allows inline images. GitHub PRs and issues work really well together. > It looks like Bugzilla can do that: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1472522 . W

Re: [platform-dev] Has the time come?

> "...inline images..." +100 for this aspect - it applies to issues, PRs and Wiki. Especially being able to Paste an image in directly. ~~~ Jonah Graham Kichwa Coders www.kichwacoders.com On Wed, 10 Mar 2021 at 13:00, Ned Twigg wrote: > Eclipse has a GUI, and it's really helpful to develop G

Re: [platform-dev] Has the time come?

Eclipse has a GUI, and it's really helpful to develop GUIs using a tool which allows inline images. GitHub PRs and issues work really well together. ᐧ On Wed, Mar 10, 2021 at 8:27 AM Mickael Istria wrote: > Hi, > > Let's capture the main parts of the discussion at > https://wiki.eclipse.org/Plat

Re: [platform-dev] Has the time come?

Hi, Let's capture the main parts of the discussion at https://wiki.eclipse.org/Platform-releng/Migration_To_GitHub so we can more easily plan action here. I'm personally in favor of the eventual move to GitHub, despite my huge love and respect for Gerrit. However, I think we should wait for the "

Re: [platform-dev] Has the time come?

: [EXTERNAL] Re: [platform-dev] Has the time come? On Wed, Mar 10, 2021 at 4:56 PM Wim Jongman mailto:wim.jong...@gmail.com> > wrote: Maybe we can skip adding features completely for one or two releases and have all hands focusing entirely on the releng process. This is what some of us hav

Re: [platform-dev] Has the time come?

On Wed, Mar 10, 2021 at 4:56 PM Wim Jongman wrote: > Maybe we can skip adding features completely for one or two releases and > have all hands focusing entirely on the releng process. > This is what some of us have been doing for years with the clear goal to be able to have predictable builds,

Re: [platform-dev] Has the time come?

Don't forget the discussion on the same topic GitHub and GitLab of December last year: https://www.eclipse.org/lists/platform-dev/msg02616.html Op wo 10 mrt. 2021 om 16:22 schreef Alex Blewitt : > I think the move to GitHub would be a way of getting more users interested > in contributing; howeve

Re: [platform-dev] Has the time come?

I think the move to GitHub would be a way of getting more users interested in contributing; however, I think for that to work we need to be able to do builds on GitHub as well (or report test failures there). I’m not sure how or whether GitHub actions could be used for the builds, but the open

Re: [platform-dev] Has the time come?

Maybe we can skip adding features completely for one or two releases and have all hands focusing entirely on the releng process. On Wed, Mar 10, 2021 at 3:42 PM Christoph Läubrich wrote: > +1 for move to github, we should take the opportunity to merge several > repos, this cluttering of code is

Re: [platform-dev] Has the time come?

Best of both worlds? https://gerrit.googlesource.com/plugins/github/+/master/README.md Jonah ~~~ Jonah Graham Kichwa Coders www.kichwacoders.com On Wed, 10 Mar 2021 at 09:38, Wim Jongman wrote: > Hi, > > Can we discuss the move to GitHub again? > > Cons: > * No Gerrit -> best review system e

Re: [platform-dev] Has the time come?

+1 for move to github, we should take the opportunity to merge several repos, this cluttering of code is just a mess. Am 10.03.21 um 15:37 schrieb Wim Jongman: Hi, Can we discuss the move to GitHub again? Cons: * No Gerrit -> best review system ever Pros: * All the developers are there. * N

[platform-dev] Has the time come?

Hi, Can we discuss the move to GitHub again? Cons: * No Gerrit -> best review system ever Pros: * All the developers are there. * No Gerrit -> easy entry for new devs Cheers, Wim ___ platform-dev mailing list platform-dev@eclipse.org To unsubscribe f