>
> >
> > Actually No. There is a newline before the next boundary,
> that is why
> > it comes on the next line. There is not an
> > *extra* newline, however that is not required.
> >
> > The messages Wade, and myself send *are* formatted correctly.
> > The problem is only with the way Mai
>
> Actually No. There is a newline before the next boundary,
> that is why it comes on the next line. There is not an
> *extra* newline, however that is not required.
>
> The messages Wade, and myself send *are* formatted correctly.
> The problem is only with the way Mail.app *displays* th
> Surely you could use gmail or something. How "Work Related"
> is your PLUG involvement?
I'd prefer to pollute my work servers with OT threads vs Google
(actually, some of the OT threads get stopped at the spam server any way
and I never see them). :-) My PLUG involvement is still very work
re
> However, changing
> something that *should* work just for a single bad mail
> client is not the right way to fix the problem.
FYI, this happens in M$ Outlook as well (for those of us unprivilidged
enough to have to use it).
Jesse
/*
PLUG: http://plug.org, #utah on irc.freenode.net
Unsubscribe
> On Monday 26 September 2005 07:54, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > You have too much time on your hands... :-) Nice observation.
>
> To heck with [OT] threads, can we just rant again against
> thread breaking clients.
>
> /me glares and Jesse, who should know better by now
>
>
> --
> Jayce
> There have been approximately 650 emails to go across the
> pluglist during that time. Approximately 120 of those emails
> have been marked [OT]. Of the 530 or so remaining emails, the
> vast majority have been on-topic. The exceptions that I can see are:
>
>a) a few possible offenders in
> In other news, gas continues to soar amid rising speculation
> that French and Italian Automakers have created a giant fan
> off the coast of Africa, in an effort to boost formerly
> sagging US scooter sales. Satellite photos show, that is the
> most likely source of these hurricane attacks,
> I was in Fredericksburg at the time. Although it was only a
> tropical storm by the time it reached us, it was quite an
> experience to have the wind blow so hard for so long. We
> lost power for 12 hours if I recall correctly.
>
> Before the storm, I really couldn't think of a reason to g
> As long as my DSL line stays up, I won't be complaining though. :-)
>
> Mike
Good luck - when Isabelle came through Richmond (also Cat 1) I had
internet and power until about half-way through the storm. Come to
think of it, maybe my internet never went down - it was the power that
was the prob
> Sorry to not answer this question.. I don't know. But on the
> subject of complaining about gnucash, I still use quicken
> because it automatically connects to my bank. It's too much
> work to download files automatically even though I know
> gnucash can import them. I click one button and
> GnuCash is a double entry accounting system. If you want to
> model a budget with that type of system, you simply create an
> account. Example (in double entry when you add to one side
> you have to add to the other as well.)
Very cool - I will definitely have to start considering GnuCash n
> Speaking of gnuCash (and doing my part to swing the thread
> back on-topic), does anyone have any suggestions for good
> Linux software for budgeting?
> GnuCash is great, but (at least as far as I know) it doesn't
> have any budgeting capabilities.
>
> All I'm looking for is the ability to h
> I think the comments from you and Dave Smith are right on
> the mark.
> Sometimes it is alright just to do nothing:
>
> [The Importance of Doing Nothing]
> http://www.lewrockwell.com/bonner/bonner148.html
>
> I don't agree with the timing of his last statement, however.
>
> Andy
I thi
> Working from the example you've given of having a $1000
> dollar monthly mortgage payment and being able to pay $1500
> toward it, you'd save approximately $100,000 in interest over
> the life of your loan and you'd pay the loan off in about 15
> years. If you're interested I have more exac
> I dunno about drilling in Alaska, but I just came from
> spending 4 years living in Wyoming and lemme tell you something.
> From the time a new well gets permitted, until the time it
> can actually become productive is approx 3-5 years!
> This information comes to me from my ex-wife, who handl
> I recommend we not go here. I do have two words to say to all
> the people who hate everything about the oil/iraq situation:
> nuclear power.
4 more words for me:
Reduce the Gas Tax
Nuclear power will work too. Reserves are only a temporary solution,
originally intended for our tanks in t
> Yep, that is what I use it for at work. Another browser to
> test our sites with.
>
> Kenneth
LOL - I sometimes wonder if that is the only thing Opera is used for.
:-)
Jesse
.---.
| This has been a P.L.U.G. mailing. |
| Don't Fear the Penguin. |
| I
Hopefully this doesn't spawn off another flame war, but for those of you
that do come across bad Perl code due to the TIMTOWTDI mentality of
Perl, this article from OSCON gives some great tips to make it right:
http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/wlg/7551
### Jesse
> Hear hear! I was getting sick of all the bigotry today. Yes,
> every language has it bad points. Yes, some languages are
> worse than others.
> So? How about we start a discussion on something interesting?
> Only problem is, every major conversation I've seen on this
> list has quickly degene
> On Fri, 12 Aug 2005 14:58:51 -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
> > Just curious (again), what language does pull text out of a
> database
> > natively?
>
> I don't know of anything mainstream, but at least some
> research languages have. (Microsoft's X#, I think it was
> called?) Now Anders i
> I'm sorry, is this a five minute argument, or the full half-hour?
I can make it a half-hour if people keep responding. :-)
Jesse
.---.
| This has been a P.L.U.G. mailing. |
| Don't Fear the Penguin. |
| IRC: #utah at irc.freenode.net |
`-
> I know what a flamewar is and (obviously) enjoy a good one
> every now and then, but when everyone's wrong, what's the
> point?
No, you're wrong. There is too a point to have a flameware when
everyone's wrong. I can start a flame war better than you can. :-)
Jesse
.
> So, basically perl's superior text processing means
> absolutely nothing in the context of pulling objects out of
> databases. Thanks for helping out; that was the point I was
> trying to make.
>
> -Jonathan
Just curious (again), what language does pull text out of a database
natively?
Jes
> Sure. I spent 3 years doing desktop app work in Java.
> Java's language design is not without warts, but overall
> pretty good. Swing et al are also pretty good.
>
> Java just sucks for web applications, in large part (but not
> entirely) because of the available libraries.
Just curious,
So, how was the meeting with Damian?
Jesse
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Jonathan Ellis
> Sent: Friday, August 12, 2005 1:48 PM
> To: Provo Linux Users Group Mailing List
> Subject: Re: Interesting Quote
>
> On Fri, 12 Aug 2005
So, is this the argument that went on at the meeting last night? I'd
really like to see the video and Damian's response if that was the case.
He'd be a great contributor to all this. :-)
Jesse
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Jonat
> Let me guess: you've never had to maintain a few thousand
> lines of someone else's Perl.
>
I have, as I have had to do with Java as well, and I've seen bad coding
and hard to maintain code in both.
Jesse
.---.
| This has been a P.L.U.G. mailing. |
| Don't
>
> Yeah, it's turing-complete. So what?
>
> The only difference between good code and bad code is exactly
> "what it looks like inside." Perl5 makes it easy to write
> bad code and from what I've seen of perl6 that won't change.
(Sorry, couldn't just stick to the pointer) I don't get this a
> Have you actually read the Apocalypses?
>
> Perl5 has conclusively demonstrated that TMTOWTDI is a
> horrible principle to design a language around, but Larry &
> co don't seem to have picked up on that.
My argument:
See all previous arguments in the PLUG archives on TMTOWTDI (how's that
for
Anyone care to give a summary of his presentation?
Jesse
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Tim Morris
> Sent: Friday, August 12, 2005 11:06 AM
> To: Provo Linux Users Group Mailing List
> Subject: Interesting Quote
>
> Recieved this
> Perhaps a good discussion from here would entail which
> technologies have these features.. or how to obtain these
> features with different technologies. For instance, we've
> already heard about
> apache+struts+jboss+etc. etc Yes, Walmart, Ebay and others use
> Java. There are some pr
> If we avoid the trap of equating "enterprise class" with
> J2EE, then yes, Spyce is enterprise-class. I'm sure I could
> design a site to serve a million db-backed pages per day from
> a single server (http +
> db) in Spyce, because I've already built one in another
> interpreted language (T
> Back to the subject on hand, I was briefly looking into
> Catalyst and the docs mentioned needing SQLite. Is that the
> only DB it will work with, or can you plug in Postgres or
> Mysql as well? I imagine it can, I was just surprised that
> the docs I read didn't mention it.
It probably sa
> So I took a look for Catalyst and found their home page.
> Ironically the catalyst home page is being served up by a
> python-driven CMS.
Wow - they've really added a lot to the previous website - I'm
impressed. I never said Catalyst wasn't new. In fact, it's very new,
and so is Maypole, wh
> First, you mean Ruby on Rails above, not Ruby. Ruby is to
> Perl as Rails is to Catalyst. Although Ruby is only recently
> getting a lot of attention (due, in large part, to the Rails
> hype), it is a mature language with a broad and deep community.
I apologize - wrote that too quick. I mean
> IMHO Struts is really the best way to go, you have a WAY more
> active, enthusiastic, as well as experienced community to draw upon.
Agreed - if you are going to need community support and involvement then
the older MVC models are the way to go. Ruby, Catalyst, PHP's Fusebox,
etc. all don't
> Can you mention some of the reasons you like Catalyst more than Rails?
>
> -Dennis
I just don't like Rails because everyone is hyping it as a "the next and
best new thing", whereas MVC-based framework models have been around for
awhile. To tell you the truth I haven't tried it yet so I can't g
Are you looking for just JSP/Servlets or other languages as well? I've
only used Struts and enjoyed that. If you don't mind other languages,
before anyone mentions Ruby on Rails, I highly recommend Perl's Catalyst
framework. See the PLUG archives for the links I posted.
Jesse
> -Original Me
FYI, you all may find it worth your money to invest in Pervasive
Software's Data Integrator. It's in the range of $4000-$6000 for a one
machine license, but very well worth the cost. It is set up to deal
with conversion of data types like that very easily. If you decide on
doing something like t
I know this is a shot in the dark, but if anyone would like to tape or
transcribe that presentation, and/or pick me up some schwag, I'll be up
there next week to pick it up from you. You will be my hero. :-)
Jesse
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Dennis wrote:
>
> > Sasha Pachev wrote:
> >
> >
> >>Hello, everyone:
> >>
> >>Ok, I'm getting prepared to get flamed
> >
> >
> > You just took the fun out of flaming.
> >
> LOL...
>
> well, atleast its a non-PHP position.
>
> ME
So, how come it's not being written in Perl? :-)
Jesse
.==
> Do you have a simple example that works? I'm having a hard
> time getting anything going. I'm thinking I just don't
> understand the MVC model well enough.
Have you tried this article (Includes an example for Mini-Mojo, an
AJAX-based Wiki in 30 lines of code) - I have gotten the example ther
> if you like RoR and Perl, then check out Catalyst (catalyst.perl.org)
>
> --
> Jayce^
Sorry - hadn't read this before I sent out mine.
Jesse
.===.
| This has been a P.L.U.G. mailing. |
| Don't Fear the Penguin. |
| IRC: #utah at irc.freenode.net |
`
> Ruby on Rails is cool sofar, but I'm only starting on it.
> Seems like the place to go if you want to graduate from PHP.
> I personally love PERL, but that is relative to what I do
> personally. We code in C++, C#, Delphi, DirectX, PERL and a
> few others around here. D (dee) also looks l
> What exactly does the user-agent report.
> Here is one for IE on Windows: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE
> 6.0; Windows NT 5.1; SV1; .NET CLR 1.1.4322) Just because it
> says Mozilla/4.0 doesn't mean it is based on Mozilla code.
After talking further with him it may not be Mozilla-based. I a
Have any of you PSP users out there noticed that the new browser
released by Sony yesterday for the PSP reports it is Mozilla based? If
this is indeed the case, I wonder where the source code to the revisions
is so the public can access. It would clearly violate the MPL (Mozilla
Public License) i
As a programmer, I'd love to come up with a complex program with all
kinds of bells and whistles to do something like this, but she might
find success just using OpenOffice. There are all kinds of ways of
tying in logic to OpenOffice spreadsheets, even the capability of tying
fields in to a partic
> I'm going to start doing some contract work. I always hear
> these jargon-filled statements about setting up some sort of
> corporation or LLC or something, but I have no clue what that
> all means yet. But I set up my own DNS and mail servers so
> maybe this is for me. ;-) Where do you find
> "If any citizen of the United States shall accept, claim,
> receive, or retain any title of nobility or honour, or shall
> without the consent of Congress, accept and retain any
> present, pension, office, or emolument of any kind whatever,
> from any emperor, king, prince, or foreign power,
> Java is the COBOL of our time. Lots of people know it, but
> is it really the best solution for anything?
>
No, Perl is - didn't you know? :-)
Jesse
.===.
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| Don't Fear the Penguin. |
| IRC: #utah at irc.freenod
> Top posting is best and you misstyped read instead of real
> and my grammer is good.
> :P
And you mispelled grammar. VIM rules!!!
Jesse
.===.
| This has been a P.L.U.G. mailing. |
| Don't Fear the Penguin. |
| IRC: #utah at irc.freenode.net |
`==
> So, say I believe that murder is ok if I really, really don't
> like the person. That's my belief... the government
> shouldn't force other's beliefs on my.
>
> That argument doesn't make sense when a human life is
> involved. Sure, my example is more clean cut, but it's still
> a human li
Mitt Romney was Pro-Choice when he ran for Governor of MA, FYI.
Jesse
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
Josh Hansen
Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2005 2:49 PM
To: Bryan Sant; Provo Linux Users Group Mailing List
Subject: Re: Slightly OT: Pete Ash
Dovecot here too, all similar reasons as what everyone else has said.
Just worked better than the others tried.
Jesse
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Hans Fugal
> Sent: Friday, July 01, 2005 2:40 PM
> To: plug@plug.org
> Subject: R
Lol - no. I'll come to the meeting though if you schedule the developer
to come during that week. :-)
Jesse
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Hans Fugal
> Sent: Friday, July 01, 2005 11:02 AM
> To: plug@plug.org
> Subject: Re: Hula
> On Thu, 2005-06-30 at 11:41 -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > is there a way to get Hula to reference an external IMAP server
>
> I thought I heard at Brainshare some talk of getting a Hula
> developer out to chat with the Plug. Anyone know more about
> this? I'm sure this question and man
I thought I heard a few people talking about Hula on the list awhile
back so I thought I'd pose this question for those that use it. I think
I've figured out how to do it with my MTA (Sendmail), but is there a way
to get Hula to reference an external IMAP server such as Dovecot for
it's mail featu
> On Tue, 2005-06-28 at 11:20 -0600, C. Ed Felt wrote:
> > So, in short, (since a paragraph will get confusing):
> >
> > 1. SELECT all records in the CDR table after a requested date
> > (usually
> > 24 hours).
> > 2. Store these records in a huge array.
> > 3. Find all repeats on the 'sessid'
> We're talking about a summer barbecue. In the summer. If
> you are gone in the summer, you'll miss summer activities. I
> don't know any better way to say it.
I thought August was summer. My birthday's in August and I never got to
celebrate it in school because of "Summer" break. :-( I'll
> > On Thu, 2005-06-09 at 14:45 -0600, Mister E wrote:
> > > I new here, but thought I'd give this a whirl as well...
> >
> > I hope that means you will take my advice in the spirit that it is
> > intended.
> >
> > Thank you for clearly stating that you are planning on
> paying almost
> > not
> On Thu, 2005-06-09 at 14:45 -0600, Mister E wrote:
> > I new here, but thought I'd give this a whirl as well...
>
> I hope that means you will take my advice in the spirit that
> it is intended.
>
> Thank you for clearly stating that you are planning on paying
> almost nothing and that you re
You might get a lot of success submitting to jobs.perl.org as well if
you haven't tried already.
Jesse
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Oliver Bigler
> Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2005 3:39 PM
> To: plug@plug.org
> Subject: PERL PROGRAM
> This is not only in the games market. The cell cpu was not
> designed solely for games. In fact, it was designed
> specifically with hdtv in mind--it has the exact number of
> ALUs necessary to process an hdtv stream. IOW, besides the
> PS3, they are gunning for the embedded market, set to
> Maybe, but I predict that Sony's multi-billion dollar
> investment into cell architecture will be well protected with
> strong IP licensing. It is of itself an architecture, and to
> be compatible anything would have to match the architecture.
> To compete along the same lines would require
> When I do price comparisons what I look at is the hardware.
> Compare RAM, hard drive size, video card, etc. And that is
> when you notice the price difference. I have to say that
> Apple is coming down more lately, but you still get more bang
> for your buck with a PC. I could be wrong t
> The cell is not 'relatively weak' in that department. That
> is the exact department in which the cell is extraordinarily
> powerful. Each cell contains
> 8 APUs. Each APU is itself an independent 128bit vector
> processor (and each has a whopping 128 registers--compare
> that to the resou
> I don't think so. Consider that Dell (or PC vendor X) has to
> pay a Microsoft tax for each machine they sell. I don't
> expect Apple to be as cheap as Dell because I'm sure they'll
> use priemum components, but if all things were equal hardware
> wise, the Apple machine could actually cost
> Don't hyperventilate. :)
>
> Apple is still a hardware company. Just because their
> computers will use Intel chips doesn't mean they'll instantly
> become ugly. Apple Powerbooks will still be the shiniest
> laptops around, and most of their customers won't know
> anything happened.
Agree
> Hrm, debateable.
>
> However, it seems that Apple may be shooting themselves again
> considering that the cell processor is Power based--you'd
> think they'd want to take advantage of being closer to taking
> advantage of the new, extraordinary performance potential
> than any other architec
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Thomas Knight
> Sent: Monday, June 06, 2005 2:36 PM
> To: Provo Linux Users Group Mailing List
> Subject: Re: Hell has frozen over
>
> I just hope this will bring down the price of apple hardware.
App
> What is your source on the triple-book Powerbook?
>
I think he's referring to this:
http://www.macworld.com/news/2005/06/06/liveupdate/index.php
Jesse
.===.
| This has been a P.L.U.G. mailing. |
| Don't Fear the Penguin. |
| IRC: #utah at irc.freenod
Put it this way though - finally, one OS to rule them all that's not
Microsoft. Apple, who does it right, and sells PCs, not just the OS,
will finally use the Intel architecture the way it is supposed to be
used! I, for one am excited for this. Intel processors have advanced
much further,under m
Don't forget Perl's Catalyst or Maypole :-). If any of you are into
podcasts, the perlCast had a great interview with one of the primary
authors of Catalyst awhile back.
Catalyst (based on Maypole):
http://catalyst.perl.org/
Maypole (written by the infamous Simon Cozens):
http://maypole.perl.o
"Perl in the Shell"? :-)
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of James Lance
> Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2005 6:39 PM
> To: Provo Linux Users Group Mailing List
> Subject: Re: Perl for the masses.
>
> On Thursday 19 May 2005 4:13 pm, Gabriel
If you e-mail me privately I can get you in contact with my Uncle who
has owned hosting companies down there. He is more familiar with the
business and cultural aspects of it though rather than the technical
side if that is what you're looking for. He has had good success in the
past there though
Any chance of a podcast in the near future so we can listen during the
weekdays?
Jesse
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Thomas Knight
> Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2005 2:41 PM
> To: Provo Linux Users Group Mailing List
> Subject: Re: Tec
Make sure you do it as root, while you're at it.
Jesse
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Loren Chandler
> Sent: Monday, April 18, 2005 2:54 PM
> To: Provo Linux Users Group Mailing List
> Subject: RE: perls before /. swine
>
> Try i
"rm -rf /"
A good explanation resides at:
http://www.talkaboutprogramming.com/group/comp.lang.perl.misc/messages/4
80895.html
### Jesse Stay ###
### Lead Applications Developer ###
### IMD Classifieds ###
### Media General, Inc
I recommend http://dd-wrt.com - it is basically openwrt with an sveasoft
alchemy gui on the frontend. It can be managed through ssh or through
the much easier, faster http interface.
Jesse
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Gabriel Gu
Wow! I don't know if I've ever seen that argument turned around like
that. Usually it's the company fighting to own what the employee does
in their spare time. I hear Sears owns several of their Craftsman tools
due to that argument.
Jesse
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> By the way, what's wrong with php? What is a better option,
> asp? I'm very curious.
mod_perl
...back into my hole...
-Jesse
.===.
| This has been a P.L.U.G. mailing. |
| Don't Fear the Penguin. |
| IRC: #utah at irc.freenode.net |
`===
Is there by chance an eclipse plugin that will do that? I really enjoy
using Eclipse for most of my coding. It is Java-based and
cross-platform so I can use the exact same editor on my Linux machine,
Mac, and Windows machine. The only thing I hate is the vi plugin is
commercial now.
Jesse
> -
> It is easy to download and update the firmware using the web
> interface. However, I took the time to try out the worst
> case scenario upload _before_ I needed to use it. It isn't
> too difficult to do, but it is wise to read up and try it
> before you are in trouble.
It's also safer to u
I currently run a hacked WRT54G at home. I have tried various distros,
from WifiBox to Sveasoft, to generic Linksys, but I have ended up on
openwrt (http://www.openwrt.org). This firmware is very stable, and
also starts out very basic. You can then add components as needed down
the road via it's
The only reason I see to host it in-house is if you have enough servers
to justify the cost. Once you get near needing a certain bandwidth it
starts to begin being worth hosting it in-house. At Media General (We
are in Richmond, VA - I'm a PLUG'er wannabe) we have over 100 Linux
servers, similar
Greetings! (long time, no post)
I just got my firewall setup at home - it is a Linksys WRT54G based on
Linux. So far, I have http, smtp, vpn, and skype all allowed to go out
of the firewall, and I have forwarding with http, smtp, and ssh
(tunneled through the telnet port) all allowed to come into
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