: Monday, August 31, 2009 8:08 PM
To: Main PLUG discussion list
Subject: Re: OT: Politics/Ethics: Operation PinWale - Obama Administration
Seeks Emergency Control of the Internet
Yes, we have no say - accept the Matrix for what it is.
Freedum, Serfdom, Fiefdom - Don't trust anything
are making at the town hall meetings is
being seen.
We are the people
Keith Smith
--- On Mon, 8/31/09, Lisa Kachold lisakach...@obnosis.com wrote:
From: Lisa Kachold lisakach...@obnosis.com
Subject: Re: Politics/Ethics: Operation PinWale - Obama Administration Seeks
On Mon, Aug 31, 2009 at 8:22 PM, Lisa Kachold lisakach...@obnosis.comwrote:
How do we get that bill introduced?
--
http://linuxgazette.net/165/kachold.html
(623)239-3392
(503)754-4452 www.obnosis.com
---
PLUG-discuss mailing list -
amazing! just the other day I was thinking of this very cartoon.
On Tue, Sep 1, 2009 at 9:57 AM, James Finstrom jfinst...@rhinoequipment.com
wrote:
Civics 101 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nlka6fTnDnI
--
:-)~MIKE~(-:
---
PLUG-discuss mailing
My direct ancestor signed the Constitution, and study if his life is
the typical biography of the politicians of the century: Thomas
Mifflin
Date Place of Birth
January 10, 1744, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
Passed Away
January 20, 1800, Lancaster, Pennsylvania
Place of Burial
I've always been against information farming without consent. I'm far less
concerned about what will be done with the information today, since I
consider myself a well-adjusted and lawful individual. But what happens in
20 years when societal norms have changed and someone digs up my info to
.
Keith Smith
--- On Sun, 8/30/09, Jim fa...@cox.net wrote:
From: Jim fa...@cox.net
Subject: Re: OT: Politics/Ethics: Operation PinWale - Obama Administration
Seeks Emergency Control of the Internet
To: Main PLUG discussion list plug-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us
Date
: Politics/Ethics: Operation PinWale - Obama Administration Seeks
Emergency Control of the Internet
To: Main PLUG discussion list plug-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us
Date: Sunday, August 30, 2009, 9:39 PM
Jason Spatafore wrote:
Until the representatives are removed...we will
constantly struggle
Back to the regulation of information?
We don't get to vote on this, we defrayed that when we voted.
What choices do we have now? Civil disobedience?
On Sun, Aug 30, 2009 at 10:31 PM, Ryan Rixphrkonale...@gmail.com wrote:
mike havens wrote:
I think only land oners should have the right to
Letters, faxes, phone calls, rally's, town hall meetings
Keith Smith
--- On Mon, 8/31/09, Lisa Kachold lisakach...@obnosis.com wrote:
From: Lisa Kachold lisakach...@obnosis.com
Subject: Re: Politics/Ethics: Operation PinWale - Obama Administration Seeks
Emergency
At 10:31 PM 8/30/2009, Ryan Rix wrote:
I think only land oners should have the right to vote. I do not own
anything so I would not get to vote.
White land owning men? :P
Ryan, I love 'ya, but:
As a fat, white, land owner, Country Club Member a Republican, I
find this very offensive.
I've always wondered about people who complain about email privacy, yet
use a gmail address.
For starters, what if the technically competent were to set up and use
email servers that were configured to use TLS whenever it's available.
Some servers are already configured for this. Wouldn't that
Civil disobedience is a pretty extreme measure. We're still able to
protest, etc. If this continues for 20 years and we still get no luv, then
civil disobedience may be the only way, and that means some of us are going
to jail. We would be breaking the law, after all. Luckily, by then there
I saw a deal on one of real tv's video shows where these kids took over a
university cafiteria for 2 days to protest something and as soon as the
threat of arrest came they all split. Unfortunately although college kids
are often excitable sheep who act on mob mentalities and do whatever is
Like anything else, email privacy depends on context. I certainly am not
going to bother with secure email if I'm sending said email to a public
email list. Point-to-point security is extremely easy with straight-up pgp
encryption. Trying to handle secure email in a glorified dark net is a
On Aug 31, 2009, at 10:46 AM, James Finstrom wrote:
I saw a deal on one of real tv's video shows where these kids took
over a university cafiteria for 2 days to protest something and as
soon as the threat of arrest came they all split. Unfortunately
although college kids are often
I don't think it's beside the point. If it's technically impossible to
snoop email, then snooping email becomes moot. It's a matter of
enforcement, and making something impossible to do is effective enforcement.
pgp can certainly be done, but I wouldn't call it extremely easy. If it
were
On Sun, 30 Aug 2009, Ryan Rix wrote:
mike havens wrote:
I think only land oners should have the right to vote. I do not own
anything so I would not get to vote.
White land owning men? :P
Welcome to the 18th century.
--
Bob Holtzman
Key ID: 8D549279
If you think you're getting free lunch,
Jason Spatafore wrote:
Give me direct vote on all laws that are presented to Congress. That is
all I ask. Until then, this conversation is pretty much over. It's going
to be a constant republican vs. democrat vs. independent debate that
constantly occurs every single day.
Just give me my
to understand how
much power we really have.
Keith Smith
--- On Mon, 8/31/09, Austin William Wright diamondma...@users.sourceforge.net
wrote:
From: Austin William Wright diamondma...@users.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: Politics/Ethics: Operation PinWale - Obama
On Mon, 2009-08-31 at 17:16 -0700, Austin William Wright wrote:
These additional powers being granted to the executive branch must be
stopped at all costs. We have already seen what happens when we give
the
president the (unconstitutional) power to declare war. Do your
research
on the bills
On Aug 31, 2009, at 7:16 PM, Austin William Wright wrote:
Democracy is nothing but tyranny of the majority. I was walking
through
Boston recently, and coming to the Holocaust memorial I saw a quote, a
common variation of which goes as follows:
First they came for the Jews
and I did not
Robert Holtzman wrote:
On Mon, 31 Aug 2009, Ryan Rix wrote:
I was making fun of the original statement of the declaration of
independence all men are created equal in that women, african
americans, poor people, etc, simply did not count. Sorry if anyone took
it other than a joke as was
On 8/31/09, Jason Spatafore jason_onl...@spatafore.net wrote:
On Mon, 2009-08-31 at 17:16 -0700, Austin William Wright wrote:
These additional powers being granted to the executive branch must be
stopped at all costs. We have already seen what happens when we give
the
president the
How do we get that bill introduced?
On 8/31/09, Robert Holtzman hol...@cox.net wrote:
On Mon, Aug 31, 2009 at 05:16:39PM -0700, Austin William Wright wrote:
Jason Spatafore wrote:
Give me direct vote on all laws that are presented to Congress. That is
all I ask. Until then, this
Subject: Re: OT: Politics/Ethics: Operation PinWale - Obama Administration
Seeks Emergency Control of the Internet
To: Main PLUG discussion list plug-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us
Date: Sunday, August 30, 2009, 9:02 PM
Excellent logic! I vote so its
not my fault.
Voting is but one step
-Original Message-
From: plug-discuss-boun...@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us
[mailto:plug-discuss-boun...@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us] On Behalf Of Lisa
Kachold
Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 8:08 PM
To: Main PLUG discussion list
Subject: Re: OT: Politics/Ethics: Operation PinWale - Obama
While the details are unknown, credible evidence indicates that
billions of everyday communications of ordinary Americans are swept up
by government computers and run through a process that includes both
data-mining and review of content, to try to figure out whether any of
us were involved in
On Sun, 2009-08-30 at 09:53 -0700, Lisa Kachold wrote:
While the details are unknown, credible evidence indicates that
billions of everyday communications of ordinary Americans are swept up
by government computers and run through a process that includes both
data-mining and review of content,
It comes as no surprise that this is coming from Jay Rockefeller,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ct9xzXUQLuY
-jmz
On Sun, Aug 30, 2009 at 9:53 AM, Lisa Kacholdlisakach...@obnosis.com wrote:
While the details are unknown, credible evidence indicates that
billions of everyday communications of
:
From: Jason Spatafore jason_onl...@spatafore.net
Subject: Re: Politics/Ethics: Operation PinWale - Obama Administration Seeks
Emergency Control of the Internet
To: Main PLUG discussion list plug-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us
Date: Sunday, August 30, 2009, 11:35 AM
On Sun, 2009-08-30 at 09:53
On Sun, 2009-08-30 at 13:53 -0700, keith smith wrote:
Jason you say Ultimately, there is nothing to fear really.. There
is everything to fear and it is illegal.
Our founding fathers wanted to make sure we were protected from this
type of thing by giving us the Bill of Rights.
As a
Yesterday I attended a court hearing that in my opinion, directly
relates to this thread. Let me tell you about it.
At issue was the proposed destruction of paper ballots from a 2006
Pima County bond election that smells fishy. I won't go into all of
the details but...it doesn't look right.
Jason Spatafore wrote:
The president is asking for permission...it is up to us to grant it.
No, it's up to the people who the lobbyists elected.
--
Ryan Rix
(623)-826-0051
Fortune:
Respect is a rational process
-- McCoy, The Galileo Seven, stardate 2822.3
been passed does not make it lawful.
Keith Smith
--- On Sun, 8/30/09, Jason Spatafore jason_onl...@spatafore.net wrote:
From: Jason Spatafore jason_onl...@spatafore.net
Subject: Re: Politics/Ethics: Operation PinWale - Obama Administration Seeks
Emergency Control
On Sun, 2009-08-30 at 15:20 -0700, Ryan Rix wrote:
The president is asking for permission...it is up to us to grant it.
No, it's up to the people who the lobbyists elected.
*YOU* had a direct vote in their election to office and your vote was
just as meaningful as the lobbyists with equal
Jason Spatafore wrote:
On Sun, 2009-08-30 at 15:20 -0700, Ryan Rix wrote:
The president is asking for permission...it is up to us to grant it.
No, it's up to the people who the lobbyists elected.
*YOU* had a direct vote in their election to office and your vote was
just as meaningful as
At 03:55 PM 8/30/2009, Jason Spatafore wrote:
snip, snip
Sorry, a computer is available almost everywhere you go. It's time
to grow with the times and
move on.
Actually, we pay a tax (check your phone bills) to wire every library
(and school) -- and anyone can go into the library and use
On Sun, 2009-08-30 at 16:02 -0700, Ryan Rix wrote:
How do you deal with the security implications/identity crises that
computer
based voting introduces?
The same way you deal with it with paper voting. You figure out who the
bad guys are and put them in jail. Identity theft is a real
A On Sun, 2009-08-30 at 15:20 -0700, Ryan Rix wrote:
Who pays for the advertisements and the money that gives the people who run
for office the power and the footprint to actually get elected? Not me or
anyone else;
Sorry Ryan, take a look:
http://www.opensecrets.org/indivs/index.php
Jason Spatafore wrote:
Sorry that I can't believe in the lobbyists corruption theory.
If you're looking for somebody to blame, blame the American people for
being a bunch of lazy jack asses when it comes to elections, not the
lobbyists.
The lobbyists take advantage of said jack asses'
On Sun, 2009-08-30 at 16:30 -0700, Ryan Rix wrote:
The lobbyists take advantage of said jack asses' laziness.
I can't disagree with that. But you gotta hit the root cause of a
problem, not just the middle man.
---
PLUG-discuss mailing list -
Excellent insight!!
Keith Smith
--- On Sun, 8/30/09, Jim March 1.jim.ma...@gmail.com wrote:
From: Jim March 1.jim.ma...@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Politics/Ethics: Operation PinWale - Obama Administration Seeks
Emergency Control of the Internet
To: Main PLUG
Why do we have TWO threads?
Who inserted the Re in the subject???
On Sun, Aug 30, 2009 at 4:51 PM, Jason
Spataforejason_onl...@spatafore.net wrote:
On Sun, 2009-08-30 at 16:30 -0700, Ryan Rix wrote:
The lobbyists take advantage of said jack asses' laziness.
I can't disagree with that. But
I tried to label at as OT, guess I borked up.
Lisa Kachold wrote:
Why do we have TWO threads?
Who inserted the Re in the subject???
On Sun, Aug 30, 2009 at 4:51 PM, Jason
Spataforejason_onl...@spatafore.net wrote:
On Sun, 2009-08-30 at 16:30 -0700, Ryan Rix wrote:
The lobbyists take
No, I didn't notice it was right!
My Bad! OT is fine!
Ryan, in case you didn't notice--there ARE NO RULES!
:)
On 8/30/09, Ryan Rix phrkonale...@gmail.com wrote:
I tried to label at as OT, guess I borked up.
Lisa Kachold wrote:
Why do we have TWO threads?
Who inserted the Re in the
On Sun, 30 Aug 2009, Lisa Kachold wrote:
No, I didn't notice it was right!
My Bad! OT is fine!
Ryan, in case you didn't notice--there ARE NO RULES!
“If you are not one of us, you are one of them... They still
live in a world that is based on rules; because of that, they
are never going
Excellent logic! I vote so its not my fault.
Voting is but one step we can take to make our government understand our
desires and needs.
Just voting is like running a marathon by taking one step.
Jim
---
PLUG-discuss mailing list -
Jason Spatafore wrote:
Until the representatives are removed...we will constantly struggle with
this so-called Democracy. Technology has finally caught up to where it
can be used for a direct Democratic country with lower costs than
running elections every two years. Now is the time to start
mike havens wrote:
I think only land oners should have the right to vote. I do not own
anything so I would not get to vote.
White land owning men? :P
On Sun, Aug 30, 2009 at 9:39 PM, James Lee Bell
nuclear-cow...@cox.netwrote:
Jason Spatafore wrote:
Until the representatives are
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