> > You can still pin swap, one good way, one not so good way.
> >
> > Good way: edit the pins to interchange the net assignments. Then run the
> > synchronizer preview and write the report to file (rt-click on the
screen
> > of the macro list to bring up the options). Then cancel it.
>
> Yeah, th
What the heck that all means is beyond me. Im not at all interested in learning
another complex operating system such as Linux or trying to sort out that stuff.
Im no fan of M$ but most of there software sort of works.The idea is great for a
stable easy to use OS but is Linux like that?
If Prot
I am not the moderator of this list, and you all are free to cheerfully
ignore my comment, but the legitimate point of this thread was that many of
us would like to run Protel under Linux. It is not terribly relevant for
our purpose which operating system is best. As we know, the OS wars would
At 04:19 PM 11/21/01 -0600, Jon Elson wrote:
>It seems Protel only supports round pads on inner layers. Forcing a
>rectangular pad onto the inner layers results in this problem. I know
>of no way to get a rectangular clearance on a power plane layer. Protel
>can pour copper around rectangular p
> You can still pin swap, one good way, one not so good way.
>
> Good way: edit the pins to interchange the net assignments. Then run the
> synchronizer preview and write the report to file (rt-click on the screen
> of the macro list to bring up the options). Then cancel it.
Yeah, that's the way
At 03:50 PM 11/21/01 -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>Mr. Lomax
>I would hesitate to let the pcb routing dictate the FPGA configuration.
What I wrote applies generally to any part where swapping is appropriate.
It also works for resistor packs, where there is no problem. I do not swap
anything
At 02:08 PM 11/21/01 -0500, Bagotronix Tech Support wrote:
>Bring back the pin swapping! Gate swapping is not important to me for the
>reasons Tony mentioned.
You can still pin swap, one good way, one not so good way.
Good way: edit the pins to interchange the net assignments. Then run the
sy
Mr. Jenkins seems to have misunderstood the keepout attribute, as others
have noted. When a primitive has the keepout attribute, it does not
photoplot and it does not implement connectivity. (If someone finds an
example where it does, they have found a bug.)
I was unaware that there was a sett
> Dennis,
> yes I have been experimenting with rules just like you mention.
> However, it flags any via or pad that touches, doesn't matter about drill
> overlap. Our boards just highlight all over the place in the DRC layer
> color. Not much good. If you were doing regular digital/analog boards
Thanks to Dennis Saputelli, we were able to detect when the double hits
occurred at least while using Spectra with Protel. The only double hits I
experience now are on BGAs or parts that I previously fanned out in the in a
library. A simple method to identify all of them is to route with a
diff
Brad
here is the item from Protels site, dont bother with the hole detector add
on, it only gives you the co ordinates, this will find them as errors
12) Item No. 2118 - Last revised 30-Jul-2001
How can I detect overlapping pad and vias on my PCB?
Protel Knowledge Base
Item - 2118
Logged: 7-
Dennis,
yes I have been experimenting with rules just like you mention.
However, it flags any via or pad that touches, doesn't matter about drill
overlap. Our boards just highlight all over the place in the DRC layer
color. Not much good. If you were doing regular digital/analog boards
wit
Brad,
It used to be on the Protel wwwebsite but I just checked and it's no longer
there. I must admit I have never used this server, I was just going on what
it was intended to do.
I didn't realise the drill report file reported on these double hits.I
have learnt something (useful) today...
On 09:13 PM 11/21/2001 +1000, Don Ingram wrote:
>We vowed to stick with M$ to save having to deal with 'yet more different
>software' but since our experience with dealing with Win2K server and M$'s
>new direction in licensing we decided to have a look at Linux.
I think that readers may be confus
the holes must be of the same size to be reported in the DRR
i just checked it
it will report a via stacked on a pad if they are the same hole size
(as well as pad on pad and via on via if same hole size)
Dennis Saputelli
Brad Velander wrote:
>
> Brendon,
> I thought that Protel typical
Thanks Jami,
that's is what I had remembered however I have to find the actual
errors using that method. The board fabricator says they are there but the
panel has 45 boards in it and I guess I just haven't checked the right ones
yet.
Sincerely,
Brad Velander.
Lead PCB Designer
Norsat In
what is the point below which you cannot put solder mask between smd
pads
that is, what have you all found is too thin a sliver of mask to fab?
i'm thinking that 6-8 mils is about it and below that you have to mask
out the whole area
Dennis Saputelli
--
___
Thanks Mike,
This also has the problem of you have to be disciplined enough to
turn it on and off reliably, herein lies the original problem. They can't
understand the basic issue with why they can't stack pads or free-pads on
top of one another, why would they understand (or remember) to
hey Mike i think we're not busy enough!
Dennis Saputelli
Mike Reagan wrote:
>
> > Where within Protel does it check for double drill hits?
> > I know that sometime in the past I have had this flagged when doing a
> design
>
> Brad,
> Design Rules, Clearance rule, Add, oject kind , vias, set c
the DRR report flags them, but although useful it does stop reporting
after some small number
you have to keep running it whilst fixing to be sure they are all gone
it is at the bottom of the DRR and also shows the location
they do have to be exactly at the same point
here is another idea
(got f
Brendon,
I thought that Protel typically reported this in the drill report
file? Am I going looney tunes, because I can't seem to make it work on these
boards that reportedly have the double hits.
I know my previous exposure is not from an add-on server because I
have never install
Brad,
When you set up your CAM outputs for your Gerbers in 99 SE, make sure
that you add the NC Drill option when you generate the files, and you
will get a file called "filename.DRR" (in your CAM Folder), which is
short ASCII NC Drill Report which will list the specifics about all of
your differ
> Where within Protel does it check for double drill hits?
> I know that sometime in the past I have had this flagged when doing a
design
Brad,
Design Rules, Clearance rule, Add, oject kind , vias, set clearance to 0,
and use any net. Somewhere in Protel's knowledge base item it is listed,
sor
There is an add-on Hole Detector server that performs this trick I think.
Cheers,
Brendon.
- Original Message -
From: "Brad Velander" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Protel EDA Forum List Server (E-mail)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2001 1:50 PM
Subject: [PEDA] Where does P
On 04:59 PM 11/20/2001 -0800, Dennis Saputelli wrote:
>according to Brian Livingston ("Window Manager" columnist from InfoWorld
>who recommends against using XP) the hardware detection/protection is by
>design very weak
>
>he suggests that there will be hacks freely available shortly to defeat
>th
Ok, I know this is a no-brainer but this afternoon that suits me just fine,
I seem to be short some grey matter.
Where within Protel does it check for double drill hits?
I know that sometime in the past I have had this flagged when doing a design
or outputting fab files.
However I just got word th
I think what you are missing is that there really isn't a square pad on the
plane for which you need to generate a clearance. You are generating a
blowout around the hole. Plane clearances are normally expressed as a void
expansion around the hole.
If you mean that you have described a squar
Andrew Jenkins wrote:
> On 07:29 PM 11/21/2001 +1000, robi artwork wrote:
> >Talking about Operating Systems !
> >
> >To my knowledge -
> >Linux is a much-much faster and a lot-lot more stable Operating System as any of
>Microsofts Op's will ever be.
>
> Dear Robi Artwork, please send me som
Andrew Jenkins wrote:
> On 09:52 AM 11/21/2001 +1100, Thomas wrote:
> >Please excuse my blissful ignorance but what is the problem with the XP
> >licensing scheme?
>
> It establishes, as a "standard", an dubious method of authorization, in which a
>potentially intrusive subprogram is installed d
I no one has the footprint for you, you may use my QFP generator, just enter the
dimensions provided in you data sheet.
Just copy this link location into your internet explorer address bar:
ftp://ftp.point-lab.com/quartus/Public/ProtelUsers/
Take these 2 files:
QFPfootprintGeneratorScript.bas
On 03:50 PM 21/11/2001 -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
>Mr. Lomax
>I would hesitate to let the pcb routing dictate the FPGA configuration. It
>has been my experience in the past that this can result in disastrous
>synthesis. I would suggest that unless you have full control over the FPGA
>simulatio
On 08:07 AM 22/11/2001 +1000, robi artwork said:
>At 08:19 22/11/01 +1100, you wrote:
>
>
>>Ahbut good luck in your quest. I fear this is extremely
>>optimistic of you :)
>>But you never know if you don't ask I guess.
>>
>>Colin Weber
>
>thank you, Colin
>
>As I am the one who started thi
Tim Fifield wrote:
> I have a few square thru-hole pads on a PCB, but when I set up a design rule
> to create a rectangle clearance on the GND plane it still produces a
> circular clearance so the corners of the pad are still touching the GND
> plane.
>
> Filter Kind is Pad Specification.
> Hole,
I use Rectangular Pads for Top Layer, Bottom Layer. Round Pads for
Internal Planes. I check the 'Use Pad Stack' to accomplish this at the
PCB footprint library level.
I don't need rectangular pads on the internal planes.
Jeff Adolphs
Lake Shore Cryotronics, Inc.
-Original Message-
From:
I have a few square thru-hole pads on a PCB, but when I set up a design rule
to create a rectangle clearance on the GND plane it still produces a
circular clearance so the corners of the pad are still touching the GND
plane.
Filter Kind is Pad Specification.
Hole, XY dimensions match.
Rectangle b
At 04:02 PM 11/21/01 +0300, ElectronTrade (info) wrote:
>Thank you very much for explanation. But I asked about other.
Well, I was laying a foundation, aware that there may be complications.
>I have gate on first list. One input connected to bus via wire with
>netlabel. This net (with netlabel)
Robi,
I used to use Cadence on Unix for many years. 10 years later I still say
the older versions of Unix are better
than all the crap out today, period. These overinflated operating systems
of today, from my viewpoint, are
about money and not service for the customers. Having had the benefit o
On Wed, 21 Nov 2001 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Mr. Lomax
> I would hesitate to let the pcb routing dictate the FPGA configuration. It
> has been my experience in the past that this can result in disastrous
> synthesis. I would suggest that unless you have full control over the FPGA
> simulation
Mr. Lomax
I would hesitate to let the pcb routing dictate the FPGA configuration. It
has been my experience in the past that this can result in disastrous
synthesis. I would suggest that unless you have full control over the FPGA
simulation, synthesis and layout, that it is best to let the FPGA
pr
> If M$ doesn't listen to public outcry against activation and
> get rid of it,
> we will have no choice but to protest by ceasing to buy new
> M$ products.
> This means adopting Linux on the desktop.
> M$ has done the Linux Community an enormous service in disillusioning
their
> existing Clien
At 07:51 AM 11/21/01 -0500, Sean James wrote:
>Can we get off of these threads and get backto helpful tips & tricks for
>Protel?
The way I see it, all the writers here are volunteers, and, in general,
what they think relevant *is* relevant; the social aspects of our community
are not unimporta
"Jenkins, Charlie" wrote:
> I noticed at some point that a keepout check box was added to the fill
> properties. I have long wanted to place a top or bottom only keepout in
> between certain surface mount pads such that copper pours were prevented
> from filling in between pads that had a layer
At 07:48 AM 11/21/01 -0500, Sean James wrote:
>Does anybody know how to get Protel to do gate & pin swapping?
Protel does not support this automatically. But it is not difficult to go
back and forth between schematic and pcb to accomplish something similar.
And with a complex assignment problem
On Wed, 21 Nov 2001, Bagotronix Tech Support wrote:
> Bring back the pin swapping! Gate swapping is not important to me for the
> reasons Tony mentioned.
'gate' swapping would be handy when laying out respacks - those tiny
4-individual-resistors-inna-0804-package things. It's not much of a ch
Bagotronix Tech Support wrote:
> > Has any of the *nix users here tried protel under VMware ?? as I have been
>
> I think you still need a copy of Windows to run Windows apps under VMware
> when you run VMware hosted on Linux.
Yes, certainly. VMware just provides you with a virtual PC, with no
There is a setting somewhere in the print/plot/gerber setup to print the
keepout objects. This is set to "no" by default.
- Original Message -
From: "Wayne Trow" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Protel EDA Forum" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2001 8:12 AM
Subject: Re: [PEDA]
At 08:45 PM 11/21/01 +1000, robi artwork wrote:
>I don't know how many Protel Customer actually joined this forum - but
>maybe we, the lot of us,
>could have an impact for Protel, considering Linux as the Base.
Techserv does not make readily available the subscriber base of this list.
At one
Bagotronix Tech Support wrote:
> Oh boy, a chance to stir the Windows/Linux pot!
>
> But seriously:
>
> We use both Linux and Windows 9X, 2K. Linux is used so far only as the LAN
> server/gateway. All of the desktop work is done on Windows. Linux is a
> great server OS, but still needs a lot o
At 07:29 PM 11/21/01 +1000, robi artwork wrote:
>Well well well -
>Maybe the time has come to ask Altium to get "Protel running under Linux".
Given the way that Microsoft is going, I request that Altium pursue the
Linux system as an option. I'm aware that this may require substantial
effort, b
At 04:34 PM 11/21/01 +1100, Ian Wilson wrote:
>Method 2 is better but may not work with a future release as really
>keepout tracks do not need a net assignment, but hopefully Protel will
>realise the problem and add Object Kind (with at least Keepout as an
>option) to the min/max rules scopes
I liked being able to do pin swapping in v2.8. This was useful when
manually routing a PCB and optimizing the layout for no signals crossing
over/under other signals. I could assign connector pinouts on the fly by
swapping connector pins. Of course, the schematic has to be updated
afterwards.
Charlie
When you place a keepout fill I dont think it gets plotted in the gerber
files so you wont end up with a unconnected piece of copper under your SMD.
I could be wrong - its happened before :-)
Wayne
Why don't you use a layer specific keep-out track? Place a skinny track 1
mil or so between the pads and when you pour the polygon, it will avoid the
area between the two SMD pads.
Tony
> -Original Message-
> From: Jenkins, Charlie [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Wednesday, November
First of all, yes, this can be helpful or annoying, depending on what one
is trying to do.
For those popping into this thread, here is a description of the problem. I
want to review the layers of a board for route quality, so I want to look
at one layer at a time. Or perhaps I want to look, on
It doesn't do it as others have already said, and frankly I think it's a
technology that was useful when 7400 series was more mainstrean, but in the
last 10 or so designs I've done, I don't ever recall missing the feature.
This is attributed to heavy use of DSPs, uCs, PALs, FPGAs, etc. There are
e
I noticed at some point that a keepout check box was added to the fill
properties. I have long wanted to place a top or bottom only keepout in
between certain surface mount pads such that copper pours were prevented
from filling in between pads that had a layer specific keepout.
Unfortunately to
Thanks to all for the advise!! I am convinced I have a hardware problem.
Even Microsoft Word crashed today (unrepeatable) twice doing routine
copy paste from AutoCAD and printing.
Jeff Adolphs
Lake Shore Cryotronics, Inc.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* To post a me
i don't see the prob
just hit the END key and the other layer will disappear
that way you have it both ways
Dennis Saputelli
Wayne Trow wrote:
>
> Its far from handy !!!
>
> When in single layer mode I only want to see what is on that layer - I dont
> care about the other layers at that moment
Wayne,
About the only suggestion I can think of would be to change the
"Selecton" color so that it matches your "Background" color in the
"Colors" tab under Tools -> Preferences.
It appears to be the "Selection" color that is used to "Highlight" nets
and other things in Protel.
It will probably
Peder, if you still need it, I got this note from Protel (apparently due to
someone seeing our posts):
...The article "Using Complex Hierarchy in Protel 99"
(http://www.protel.com/earticles/complex_hier_P99.htm) has now been restored
on the Protel site...
> -Original Message-
> From: Dwi
> Has any of the *nix users here tried protel under VMware ?? as I have been
I think you still need a copy of Windows to run Windows apps under VMware
when you run VMware hosted on Linux.
Best regards,
Ivan Baggett
Bagotronix Inc.
website: www.bagotronix.com
- Original Message -
From:
Oh boy, a chance to stir the Windows/Linux pot!
But seriously:
We use both Linux and Windows 9X, 2K. Linux is used so far only as the LAN
server/gateway. All of the desktop work is done on Windows. Linux is a
great server OS, but still needs a lot of GUI and API work before it can be
a Window
At 10:50 21.11.01 -0800, you wrote:
>Hi All,
>
>I agree completely with this assesment. All the other lite versions I've
>seen in the past have "limits" ie. number of components or layers or
>even pins on a component. Those 3 alone would force the purchase of
>the expensive package.
I also wouldn
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
*
* To leave this list visit:
* http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html
*
* Contact the list manager:
* mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
*
* Forum Guidelines Rules:
* http://www.techservinc
Why would you want to take a step backwards!
-Original Message-
From: Watnoski, Michael [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2001 7:12 AM
To: 'Protel EDA Forum'
Subject: Re: [PEDA] Pin & gate swapping
My best recommendation would be to toss Protel out and use P-C
Hi All,
I agree completely with this assesment. All the other lite versions I've
seen in the past have "limits" ie. number of components or layers or
even pins on a component. Those 3 alone would force the purchase of
the expensive package.
Regards,
Jim McGrath
Don Ingram wrote:
> > How many u
> My best recommendation would be to toss Protel out and use P-CAD.
>
Not a good recommendation from my viewpoint. In 98 I used to generate an
ECO report then give it back to the engineer, it worked fine. I think that
feature was lost in the transition to 99. If anyone knows how to generate
On Wed, 21 Nov 2001 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> The use of ports for intersheet connections also allow the use of any
> of the several port cross-reference tools available, although I've
> found them to be not very useful.
The softies who have to read my schematics _love_ the Aspiring
Technolog
Hi Abd,
>>Can I use NetLabels in projects with complex hierarchy? I need to
>>NetLabels for bus. But if I set Net Identifier Scope how Sheet Symbol/
>>Port Connnection all net in bus are missed.
AuRL> With Sheet Symbol/Port Connections all nets are purely local, i.e., they
AuRL> connect only to
Wayne,
Have you tried changing the colors of the other layers? You might be able
to make them appear in the same color as the background, or at least very
faint.
Richard
At 03:49 PM 11/21/2001 Wednesday +1300, you wrote:
>Its far from handy !!!
>
>When in single layer mode I only want to see
I ( and I am sure many others here) would be more than willing to beta test
a Protel unix version. I can not see it being that hard to convert protel
over (apart from converting the database over to mysql from access) I know
it would be labour intensive, but I believe it would give them more respe
Just thought about trying it under VMware but never found the time for
it. But I too would be interested in experiences of the one(s) who
tried.
Or even better: Altium/Protel follow Kat's advice, not every Linux
application has to be free, you can get money for it ... and you will
extend your cus
We vowed to stick with M$ to save having to deal with 'yet more different
software' but since our experience with dealing with Win2K server and M$'s
new direction in licensing we decided to have a look at Linux.
The cobwebs were thick when recalling Unix from years ago at Uni however
after buildi
> How many users would be interested in a "Standard Package" (No SIM, SI,
3D,
> Database Link, PLD, ???) for a lower price?.
> I always was the opinion it's a good politic to have only on package with
> all the tool together, but now it's going to be a bit pricy for me.
> Why should I pay for tool
When Protel (or what ever they call themselves today) pestered me the other
day about upgrading my 98SE license (probably cause I downloaded a demo of
99se and bugged them with printer problems :o) I told them straight " Make a
version to run on FreeBSD / Linux and you will not only get me and all
Don,
you can find SPICE3 manuals for free very easily, Mr. Hartery posted a link.
Protels simulator is based on XSPICE, which is a powerful extension to
SPICE3. Free documentation is hard to find, i think there is a copyright
about it. Links to free manuals turn up temporarily.
You can buy documen
At 21:28 20.11.01 -0600, you wrote:
>On Tue, 20 Nov 2001 21:28:32 -0500, Abd ul-Rahman Lomax wrote:
> >Someone at Microsoft has obviously figured out how much money
> >they are "losing" because people install their OS on more than
> >one computer. Of course, I won't buy XP with that system unless
>
>It would be great for someone to actually go through the thread and do the
>stats on the number of replies and tally up the servers used as a
>percentage of users. The sample space is too small to be meaningful at
>the moment but it may well be time to set up another famous user
>surveys.
At 11:56 21.11.01 +1100, you wrote:
>On 10:00 AM 21/11/2001 +1000, Don Ingram said:
>>Hi All,
>>
>>It is interesting to see the responses from the Forum. It would seem that I
>>am similar to many others in that we only regularly use the core tools in
>>the package as the rest are rendered useless
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