Re: [PEDA] Not DXP or P99SE, but have you seen the Cadence offer! !!!

2002-08-01 Thread JaMi Smith
- Original Message - From: "Robert M. Wolfe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Protel EDA Forum" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2002 8:25 PM Subject: Re: [PEDA] Not DXP or P99SE, but have you seen the Cadence offer! !!! > JaMi, > I have not priced anything very recently there but

Re: [PEDA] Re[2]: Not DXP or P99SE, but have you seen the Cadence offer!!!!

2002-08-01 Thread JaMi Smith
- Original Message - From: "Michael Reagan (EDSI)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Protel EDA Forum" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2002 10:34 AM Subject: Re: [PEDA] Re[2]: Not DXP or P99SE, but have you seen the Cadence offer > I don't think any of us can complain that Pro

Re: [PEDA] Re[2]: DXP: Free updates?

2002-08-01 Thread Tony Karavidas
I would think they should start ATS based on the release date of DXP to make all the ATS early adopters happy. I think that would be fair. Some people ponied up the money early which Altium got to use over that time definately without delivering anything. Now that Altium has delivered DXP, the ATS

Re: [PEDA] Not DXP or P99SE, but have you seen the Cadence offer! !!!

2002-08-01 Thread Robert M. Wolfe
JaMi, I have not priced anything very recently there but, VeriBest was not really origianlly Cadnetix, like stated Daisy hostily took over Cadnetix the Intergraph bought them for a song, and it was Intergraph that developed VeriBest and of course now Mentor owns it all including now Innoveda (PADS

Re: [PEDA] question about layer stackup/controlled impedance trac es...

2002-08-01 Thread DUTTON Phil
Hello Rimas, Any reason for 2oz Cu? (about 3mil) I'm sure that this would be difficult to etch to 7mil wide (always some sideways etching even with spray etching) Assymettric stackup could be a problem as mentioned. A 'standard' 6-layer stackup would be; foil 6mil prepreg 20mil core 5mil prepre

Re: [PEDA] DXP comment, but slightly off topic

2002-08-01 Thread Darren
> -Original Message- > From: Chris Mogford [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > p.s. I'm anxious about the comments about DXP being slower, oh my god! I believe that for a program to be more solid you have to do more checks, I have found over the years Protel products have been very fast comp

Re: [PEDA] DXP comment, but slightly off topic

2002-08-01 Thread Dennis Saputelli
well put! esp, i must reiterate my big disappointment about no lib comments after we have hammered them so long and hard about this if they would just try making some real boards themselves ... Dennis Saputelli Chris Mogford wrote: > > The metric/imperial issue would not be an issue with any

Re: [PEDA] DXP - first impressions

2002-08-01 Thread Dennis Saputelli
cool so has anyone gotten a shipping production CD or know when they are going out? i think i'll pass on toying with the demo until that happened Dennis Saputelli Terry Creer wrote: > > Hi all, > Just loaded up the 30 day trial this morning. First thing I checked > was the Autopan. IT

Re: [PEDA] DXP schematic, any good?

2002-08-01 Thread Matt Pobursky
I figured I probably just missed it in my travels through the manual. I usually find these gems while looking for something else... ;-) Matt Pobursky Maximum Performance Systems On Fri, 2 Aug 2002 09:04:43 +1000, Igor Gmitrovic wrote: >Matt, > >Protel has a bad track in documenting their 'featur

Re: [PEDA] Upgrade Pricing Ethics WAS: Not DXP or P99SE, but have you seen the Cadence offer!!!!

2002-08-01 Thread Michael Reagan (EDSI)
> the early days of Daisy, Mentor, Valid you would have > to pay ten's of thousands of dollars just for > schematic capture! The PCB layout tools cost $100k+. > This was before PC's came along. > > In the IC industry, they have to pay $100k-1m+ for a > single software seat! I think PCB is doing p

Re: [PEDA] Upgrade Pricing Ethics WAS: Not DXP or P99SE, but have you seen the Cadence offer!!!!

2002-08-01 Thread Dennis Saputelli
well, all that notwithstanding there are official numbers on such matters inflation index, consumer price index, and others they are all VERY low for many many years now (knock on wood), on the order a few percent remember the jimmy carter years? software has yet to find it's real price model

Re: [PEDA] Speaking of Protel Bugs.

2002-08-01 Thread Matt Pobursky
Yep, or like any of the various *nix flavors. There's just no reason to expect Windows and other applications to respect your library or config files when placed in common areas. (Do I sound paranoid? ;-) I prefer to think of it as cautious...) Of course, leaving other's library files alone is go

Re: [PEDA] Speaking of Protel Bugs. - Flame start!

2002-08-01 Thread Igor Gmitrovic
Ian, well said. People have tried to hint before that it has gone over the top. Igor -Original Message- From: Ian Wilson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, 1 August 2002 6:51 PM To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: Re: [PEDA] Speaking of Protel Bugs. - Flame start! On 11:24 PM 31/07/

Re: [PEDA] Speaking of Protel Bugs.

2002-08-01 Thread Tony Karavidas
Matt, I agree, that kind of thing should be immediately looked at by Protel programmers. I think it's a little late to complain about anything with 99SE and expect something to be done about it. However, if a known 99SE (or 98 or whatever) bug has propagated into DXP, then we should scream to hav

Re: [PEDA] question about layer stackup/controlled impedance trac es...

2002-08-01 Thread Brad Velander
Rimas, have just a few minutes here to type out a reply, here are my brief comments. Your stackup is assymetrical. Your laminate top and bottom should be equal. An assymmetrical stackup will usually result in unacceptable bow & twist. Your bottom laminate thickness should match the top 6.

Re: [PEDA] Connection to Power Planes

2002-08-01 Thread Abd ul-Rahman Lomax
At 04:10 PM 8/1/2002 -0400, yves Dubois wrote: >Hi All, > >I am routing a 4-layer board with only through hole components. > >I need to connected the supply pins of my IC's to the supply plane but I >would like to go through a decoupling cap first. > >Is there an easy way for have those pins not

Re: [PEDA] Speaking of Protel Bugs.

2002-08-01 Thread Ian Wilson
On 04:09 PM 1/08/2002 -0500, Matt Pobursky said: >On Thu, 1 Aug 2002 14:20:07 -0400, Watnoski, Michael wrote: > >Greetings all, > > > >Another two cents: > > > >Protel has been my biggest headache as far as crashes due to > >upgrades of other programs. I would expect that if Protel needed

Re: [PEDA] Re[2]: DXP: Free updates?

2002-08-01 Thread Bruce Walter
To make things worse, what about all the poor people who bought Protel in the last year, got the 'FREE' ATS for a year, but it will run out long before DXP has been released for a year? -Original Message- From: Phillip Stevens [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2002 4

Re: [PEDA] DXP comment, but slightly off topic

2002-08-01 Thread Chris Mogford

Re: [PEDA] 'Global' button missing : replaced by fileter and inspect and more gripes

2002-08-01 Thread Ian Wilson
On 03:11 PM 1/08/2002 -0400, vincent mail said: >couple of problems. there is no longar a 'gobal' button when changing >properties of objects , a solution given here is close but no sigar : Now we are really getting into my complaints about DXP. >Gripe 1: >scenario: > >open pcb >select all co

Re: [PEDA] DXP schematic, any good?

2002-08-01 Thread Ian Wilson
On 10:02 AM 1/08/2002 -0700, Brock Russell said: >>The ability to break a wire is already sort of there (in P99SE) - you >>have to split the wire first. If you click (as if you are going to move >>it) on a wire and then hit the INS key you will add a vertex. You can >>then delete the wire yo

Re: [PEDA] DXP comment, but slightly off topic

2002-08-01 Thread Chris Mogford

Re: [PEDA] OT Metric vs Imperial

2002-08-01 Thread Ian Wilson
On 12:08 PM 1/08/2002 -0400, vincent mail said: >John Ross wrote: > >>Metric or Imperial does not make any real difference (except individual >>preference) except when having to convert. >yep agree > >>I think the point is that Protel has never handled Metric properly due >>to, what I assume is

[PEDA] DXP - first impressions

2002-08-01 Thread Terry Creer

Re: [PEDA] Free?h

2002-08-01 Thread Ian Wilson
On 03:42 PM 1/08/2002 +0100, John Ross said: > > -Original Message- > > From: Michael Reagan (EDSI) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > Sent: 01 August 2002 18:34 > > To: Protel EDA Forum > > Subject: Re: [PEDA] Re[2]: Not DXP or P99SE, but have you seen the > > Cadence offer > > > > I don'

Re: [PEDA] OT Metric vs Imperial

2002-08-01 Thread Ian Wilson
On 01:31 AM 2/08/2002 +1000, John Haddy said: >John, > >If the base units are metric then there will be NO rounding errors in >conversion! > >e.g. if the base unit is one micron then 0.1 thou = 2540 base units >EXACTLY - there's >no error introduced. Exactly - by choosing the base unit as 1 um (m

Re: [PEDA] Upgrade Pricing Ethics WAS: Not DXP or P99SE, but have you seen the Cadence offer!!!!

2002-08-01 Thread Tony Karavidas
The personal electronics industry is a freak among industries. You must agree with that? Even in your example lies cable modem service that has gone up and up. Tell me why? They say it's because it reflects the value of our service.' BS, it's because DSL went up and cable can go up to because the

Re: [PEDA] Upgrade Pricing Ethics WAS: Not DXP or P99SE, but have you seen the Cadence offer!!!!

2002-08-01 Thread jamgramet
You have forgotten what EDA software used to cost! In the early days of Daisy, Mentor, Valid you would have to pay ten's of thousands of dollars just for schematic capture! The PCB layout tools cost $100k+. This was before PC's came along. In the IC industry, they have to pay $100k-1m+ for a sing

Re: [PEDA] Upgrade Pricing Ethics WAS: Not DXP or P99SE, but have you seen the Cadence offer!!!!

2002-08-01 Thread jamgramet
You have forgotten what EDA software used to cost! In the early days of Daisy, Mentor, Valid you would have to pay ten's of thousands of dollars just for schematic capture! The PCB layout tools cost $100k+. This was before PC's came along. In the IC industry, they have to pay $100k-1m+ for a sing

Re: [PEDA] Speaking of Protel Bugs. - Flame start!

2002-08-01 Thread Damon Kelly
Well said, Ian. While I am sure Jami is an experienced designer, and does have some valid points about "bugs" and "features", his manner is frankly offensive. Damon Kelly Hardware Engineer > -Original Message- > From: Ian Wilson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Thursday, 1 August 200

Re: [PEDA] DXP schematic, any good?

2002-08-01 Thread Igor Gmitrovic
Matt, Protel has a bad track in documenting their 'features', but this one is in a Protel 99SE book, page 80, although it is somewhat unclear that the wire is in fact a polyline. And I am sure it is in previous editions' books as well. Igor -Original Message- From: Matt Pobursky [mail

[PEDA] question about layer stackup/controlled impedance traces...

2002-08-01 Thread rimas
hello out there, i'm about to have my first PCB design involving controlled impedance traces manufactured in the near future (just a small run of protos). I only have controlled impedance traces on the top layer. using the transmission line impedance calculation tool at: http://www.eskimo.c

Re: [PEDA] 'Global' button missing : replaced by fileter and inspect and more gripes

2002-08-01 Thread Rich Thompson
Go to Tools/Preferences and un-tick "Click Clears Selection" it now works as in 99SE Rich Gripe 4 The selection is not 'sticky' you select a bunch of stuff , as soon as you click somewhere the selection gets undone. how do you 1) add more stuff to this selection 2 ) move a part outside

[PEDA] Re[2]: DXP: Free updates?

2002-08-01 Thread Phillip Stevens
Rene, 3.0 had at least 1 SP. 98 had 3 SP. 99SE was at SP6. Past performance may not be an indication of future performance, but, for fun, try the following: Superimpose an "imaginary" ATS program (had one existed at the time) over the SP release dates of 99SE, and ask yourself which servic

Re: [PEDA] Speaking of Protel Bugs.

2002-08-01 Thread Matt Pobursky
On Thu, 01 Aug 2002 14:12:18 -0500, Jon Elson wrote: >I have only had 1 crash of Protel 99SE in the year or so I've been >running it under Win 2K.  That day, I had been chopping parts out of a >bunch of libraries, and putting them into other libraries, and all >sorts of odd things that I don't do

Re: [PEDA] Speaking of Protel Bugs.

2002-08-01 Thread Tony Karavidas
Like a Mac? :) I dislike Macs for many other reasons, but they have app management down much better than Bill G. > -Original Message- > From: Matt Pobursky [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2002 2:09 PM > To: Protel EDA Forum > Subject: Re: [PEDA] Speaking of Prot

Re: [PEDA] DXP schematic, any good?

2002-08-01 Thread Rich Thompson
DXP Demo does allow this in schematic, just drop a component on top of a wire and it will automatically cut and insert for you. Just one of the many nice improvements I've seen in the 10 mins I just evaluated it for. Rich Subject: Re: [PEDA] DXP schematic, any good? >The ability to break a

Re: [PEDA] Connection to Power Planes

2002-08-01 Thread Brian Sherer
Yves, I've found that a sure-fire way to avoid netlist conflicts in this situation is to create a second Schematic part for each IC to be decoupled, changing its power pin Name from "VCC" or "VDD" to something like "U25_PWR". Replace the original Sch component with this part. This will netlist cor

Re: [PEDA] Connection to Power Planes

2002-08-01 Thread Jeff Stout
There is a No-Connect Rule you can apply to those component pads. Goto D(esign)/R(ules)/Manufacturing/Power Plane Connection Style/Add Then goto Filter Kind and specify "Pad", and go find the pad you want. Then on rule Attribute, set it to "No Connect". Jeff Stout - Original Message - F

[PEDA] Simulation Question

2002-08-01 Thread Tim Hutcheson
I have long forgotten how I managed to do some simulations with this software so I appeal to the group about finding the simplest simulation ready schematic parts. For example when I open the Sim.ddb parts library to place an inductor, I only see INDUCTOR but it doesn't contain the read-only SPIC

Re: [PEDA] Speaking of Protel Bugs. - Flame start!

2002-08-01 Thread Rich Thompson
Finger hovering over the JaMi block... Ian Hehe, well said Ian. I don't think I ever had to kill filter anyone on a mailing list before :-) Here's hoping I never have to. JaMi, please chill out a little, this isn't a playground. These arguments have been fun to watch but are getting

Re: [PEDA] Sch part of Connector (WAS: rectangle hole?)

2002-08-01 Thread Frank Gilley
Tim, Thought I might let you know most kindly... It appears your computer's time zone is also off. It is reporting -03:00 GMT. Thanks, Frank Frank Gilley Dell-Star Technologies (918) 838-1973 Phone (918) 838-8814 Fax [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.dellstar.com **

Re: [PEDA] Upgrade Pricing Ethics WAS: Not DXP or P99SE, but have you seen the Cadence offer!!!!

2002-08-01 Thread Bagotronix Tech Support
No, not everything has gone up. I am surprised that you would make this claim, being in the electronics industry. Here are some things that have gone down: Long distance rates Cellphone rates TVs (get a good one for $300 US, they used to be a lot more) All kinds of personal electronics Computer

Re: [PEDA] DXP: Free updates?

2002-08-01 Thread Paul Hutchinson
P98 had three service packs. Paul > -Original Message- > From: Rene Tschaggelar [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2002 3:04 PM > To: Protel EDA Forum > Subject: Re: [PEDA] DXP: Free updates? > > > AFAIR, 99SE was to first to have servicepacks. > 2.8 was halfway w

Re: [PEDA] Copper pours on outer layers

2002-08-01 Thread Abd ul-Rahman Lomax
At 09:35 PM 7/31/2002 -0700, Michael Reagan (EDSI) wrote: >Abdul wrote >AND WELCOME BACK! Thanks. China is quite a place not what I expected. > > Suppose the worst designer reading this list knows how to accomplish the > > task? Should he keep it to himself? > > >No that automatically req

Re: [PEDA] Re[2]: Not DXP or P99SE, but have you seen the Cadence offer!!!!

2002-08-01 Thread Andrew Jenkins
> -Original Message- > From: Ian Wilson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > > On 08:57 AM 1/08/2002 -0400, Andrew Jenkins said: > > > > > -Original Message- > > > From: Tony Karavidas [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > > > > > > > > Get ready to bend over for the maintenance fees on $26,0

Re: [PEDA] 'Global' button missing : replaced by fileter and inspect and more gripes

2002-08-01 Thread Tony Karavidas
> -Original Message- > From: vincent mail [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2002 12:11 PM > To: forum > Subject: [PEDA] 'Global' button missing : replaced by fileter and > inspect and more gripes > > > couple of problems. there is no longar a 'gobal' button when cha

Re: [PEDA] Speaking of Protel Bugs.

2002-08-01 Thread Matt Pobursky
On Thu, 1 Aug 2002 14:20:07 -0400, Watnoski, Michael wrote: >Greetings all, > >Another two cents: > >Protel has been my biggest headache as far as crashes due to >upgrades of other programs.  I would expect that if Protel needed specific >versions of .dlls to run, it should have written th

Re: [PEDA] DXP: Free updates?

2002-08-01 Thread Andrew Jenkins
> -Original Message- > From: Rene Tschaggelar [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > > AFAIR, 99SE was to first to have servicepacks. > 2.8 was halfway working, the next year came 3.0. > The next year came 98, the next year came 99, then came > 99SE and then the servicepacks. And I paid for ever

Re: [PEDA] DXP: Free updates?

2002-08-01 Thread Bruce Walter
I came in on P98, and there were three service packs. I couldn't say before that. -Original Message- From: Rene Tschaggelar [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2002 12:04 PM To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: Re: [PEDA] DXP: Free updates? AFAIR, 99SE was to first to have s

Re: [PEDA] DXP: Free updates?

2002-08-01 Thread Tony Karavidas
I agree!! > -Original Message- > From: David VanHorn [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2002 12:00 PM > To: Protel EDA Forum; Protel EDA Forum > Subject: Re: [PEDA] DXP: Free updates? > > > > > > >They have gone from the wonderful model of free support and updates

Re: [PEDA] Speaking of Protel Bugs.

2002-08-01 Thread Jon Elson
Matt Pobursky wrote: > On Wed, 31 Jul 2002 21:51:38 -0700, JaMi Smith wrote: > >Nothing crashes but Protel ! ! ! > > > > FWIW, nothing crashes on my system but Protel either. And I mean > NOTHING. My drivers are all up-to-date (even my Intellimouse drivers!). > My Win2K SP2 is patched up-to-date.

[PEDA] Connection to Power Planes

2002-08-01 Thread yves Dubois

Re: [PEDA] DXP: Free updates?

2002-08-01 Thread Dave . E . Lewis
98 was up to SP3 when 99 was released. "Rene Tschaggelar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> on 08/01/2002 12:04:17 PM Please respond to "Protel EDA Forum" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To:"Protel EDA Forum" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> cc: Subject: Re: [PEDA] DXP: Free updates? AFAIR, 99SE was to first to have se

Re: [PEDA] Sch part of Connector (WAS: rectangle hole?)

2002-08-01 Thread Tim Fifield
Thanks again to those who replied. Tim -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2002 3:49 PM To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: Re: [PEDA] Sch part of Connector (WAS: rectangle hole?) Tim, Protel stores default data that causes the

Re: [PEDA] Re[2]: Re[2]: Not DXP or P99SE, but have you seen the Cadence offer!!!!

2002-08-01 Thread Tony Karavidas
I have a lifetime guarantee on my fireproof roof. Too bad the company is out of business... > -Original Message- > From: Michael Reagan (EDSI) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2002 2:33 PM > To: Protel EDA Forum > Subject: Re: [PEDA] Re[2]: Re[2]: Not DXP or P99SE

Re: [PEDA] Re[2]: Not DXP or P99SE, but have you seen the Cadence offer!!!!

2002-08-01 Thread Bagotronix Tech Support
> Microsoft can act like a king. King Gates: "General Ballmer, how goes the upgrade campaign?" General Ballmer: "Sire, the peasants are revolting!" King Gates: "Yes, they are. But how goes the campaign?" Best regards, Ivan Baggett Bagotronix Inc. website: www.bagotronix.com - Original

Re: [PEDA] Speaking of Protel Bugs. - Flame start!

2002-08-01 Thread Brock Russell
Ian wrote: >I will put it to the group. Who has played the more constructive role in >the forum over the past years. Who would you most like to shut-up? You are an asset to this group Ian. Brock * Tracking #: D0E1A009

Re: [PEDA] Re[2]: Re[2]: Not DXP or P99SE, but have you seen the Cadence offer!!!!

2002-08-01 Thread Dennis Saputelli
this is REALLY too bad that they did not add at least a comment field to the library part as Rene says even a one line text field would be a tremendous improvement many of us have been clamoring for this since as early 2.8 as i recall and no, i personally don't want a complicated library managem

Re: [PEDA] Upgrade Pricing Ethics WAS: Not DXP or P99SE, but have you seen the Cadence offer!!!!

2002-08-01 Thread Tony Karavidas
Ivan, do you mean to say your prices haven't gone up in the past (pick time frame)?? I know I charge more today for basically the same work that I did 3 or 4 years ago. Why is everyone so shocked that Protel's price went up? Everything has gone up, milk, eggs, gas, cars, etc. > -Original Mes

Re: [PEDA] DXP schematic, any good?

2002-08-01 Thread Dennis Saputelli
cool! at last a positive thing is said Dennis Saputelli [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > Except in DXP you can just drop the component on the wire and it will break > the wire and attach the pins to the wire. > > Go to Tools Preferences and turn on Optimize Wires & Busses and then > Component Cut

Re: [PEDA] Sch part of Connector (WAS: rectangle hole?)

2002-08-01 Thread Dennis Saputelli
because that's the way it is! i get different numbers though i guess it beats getting access violations because some field wasn't expected to be empty maybe dxp fixes some of these things? Dennis Saputelli Tim Fifield wrote: > > Here's another few questions I've been wondering about for some

Re: [PEDA] DXP schematic, any good?

2002-08-01 Thread Tony Karavidas
You don't need to anymore if it's a 2 pin part (resistor, inductor, capacitor, maybe others as well) DXP will let you drop a part on a wire and will break the wire and connect it for you automatically. You have to turn on the feature in the Tools Preferences box. (Components Cut Wires) > -O

Re: [PEDA] Re[2]: Re[2]: Not DXP or P99SE, but have you seen the Cadence offer!!!!

2002-08-01 Thread Rene Tschaggelar
Perhaps unlimited calls. Unfortunately there was just one person doing support then and he spent his time giving classes. Calling back ? Perhaps after you kept calling him 4 times per hour for a day or so. There was no support then, at least as I remember. Rene "Michael Reagan (EDSI)" wrote: >

[PEDA] 'Global' button missing : replaced by fileter and inspect and more gripes

2002-08-01 Thread vincent mail
couple of problems. there is no longar a 'gobal' button when changing properties of objects , a solution given here is close but no sigar : Gripe 1: scenario: open pcb select all components try changing all designator text heights to 45 mil for example. I can't do it . The moment you click on

Re: [PEDA] Sch part of Connector (WAS: rectangle hole?)

2002-08-01 Thread Peter Bennett
Tim Fifield wrote: > > Here's another few questions I've been wondering about for some time. > > Why is it that when I place a Pin (when making a sch symbol for a connector) > the pin name and number start at 8? The pin number (and name?) auto-increment, and the pin place form always offers to

Re: [PEDA] Sch part of Connector (WAS: rectangle hole?)

2002-08-01 Thread Brock Russell
Hi Tim: You probably have your default primitives set to permanent. Look under Tools...Preferences...Default Primitives. You can edit them and keep these values permanent with the check box on the right. Brock >Here's another few questions I've been wondering about for some time. *

Re: [PEDA] DXP: Free updates?

2002-08-01 Thread David VanHorn
> >They have gone from the wonderful model of free support and updates >(fixes), which attracted new customers in droves, to the annual >maintenance model that has either stunted or destroyed other companies. I >personally want nothing to do with it. I don't have a problem with paying for up

Re: [PEDA] DXP: Free updates?

2002-08-01 Thread Rene Tschaggelar
AFAIR, 99SE was to first to have servicepacks. 2.8 was halfway working, the next year came 3.0. The next year came 98, the next year came 99, then came 99SE and then the servicepacks. And I paid for every version up to 99. No ? Rene Bruce Walter wrote: > > >forget ATS, you don't require it.

Re: [PEDA] Sch part of Connector (WAS: rectangle hole?)

2002-08-01 Thread Dave . E . Lewis
Tim, Protel stores default data that causes the behavior you describe. You can control what you get two ways. 1. Check out the TOOLS - PREFERANCES - DEFAULT PRIMITIVE tab. There you will find the dialog boxes that allow input and editing of the things you noted. 2. While placing (ie ho

Re: [PEDA] Sch part of Connector (WAS: rectangle hole?)

2002-08-01 Thread Rene Tschaggelar
AFAIK, the strings are the last ones or derived from the last ones. Also the pin 8. Sometimes I have pin 17 or pin 21. A minor nuisance. This behaviour may depend on the servicepack. Rene Tim Fifield wrote: > > Here's another few questions I've been wondering about for some time. > > Why is i

Re: [PEDA] Sch part of Connector (WAS: rectangle hole?)

2002-08-01 Thread rlamoreaux
> Why is this info being stored and how do I stop it from doing so? > Especially the pin number starting 8. Go to Preferences and change the default primitives to what you want them to default to and you should be happier. My default pin is set to 0 and 0. Rob **

Re: [PEDA] Re[2]: Not DXP or P99SE, but have you seen the Cadence offer!!!!

2002-08-01 Thread Rene Tschaggelar
I agree with you. The smaller the marketshare the customerfriendlier a company has to act. AFAIK, Protel, ahem Altium could increase their marketshare and therefore don't have to act that customerfriendly anymore. Microsoft can act like a king. Rene Bagotronix Tech Support wrote: > > Rene:

Re: [PEDA] Upgrade Pricing Ethics WAS: Not DXP or P99SE, but have you seen the Cadence offer!!!!

2002-08-01 Thread Joel Hammer
the lurkers should be having a fit over the last couple of weeks threads... glad i don't have to attend any of those meetings!!! not to mention having to try to keep a straight face and convince someone that it's in their best interest to buy into the altium way of business... " ..see we will get

Re: [PEDA] DXP schematic, any good?

2002-08-01 Thread rlamoreaux
Except in DXP you can just drop the component on the wire and it will break the wire and attach the pins to the wire. Go to Tools Preferences and turn on Optimize Wires & Busses and then Component Cut Wires. Now drop your component on the wire with the pins on the wire and the wire is broken in

Re: [PEDA] Re[2]: Re[2]: Not DXP or P99SE, but have you seen the Cadence offer!!!!

2002-08-01 Thread Michael Reagan (EDSI)
> forget ATS, you don't require it. > > we'll see what happens with future service packs. > Whether ther are available for free or not. > ATS? When I bought my version 2.8 I think I had free ( was it lifetime or did it say unlimited support or neither ? ) Wish I could find a okl brochur

Re: [PEDA] Speaking of Protel Bugs.

2002-08-01 Thread Watnoski, Michael

Re: [PEDA] DXP schematic, any good?

2002-08-01 Thread Dennis Saputelli
you are right, it is interesting but not very useful in my experience i usually just delete the whole thing actually when i draw wires i right click a lot to make smaller segments so they will edit easier Dennis Saputelli Brock Russell wrote: > > >The ability to break a wire is already sort of

[PEDA] DXP: Free updates?

2002-08-01 Thread Bruce Walter
>forget ATS, you don't require it. >we'll see what happens with future service packs. >Whether ther are available for free or not. (snip) >Rene I think it is very clear that in order to get service packs, you have to be a current ATS subscriber. That is the whole point. I would hope that mo

Re: [PEDA] Speaking of Protel Bugs. - Flame start!

2002-08-01 Thread Duane Foster
Well said... I definitely appreciate Ian's contribution to this forum. Duane -Original Message- From: Ian Wilson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2002 1:51 AM To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: Re: [PEDA] Speaking of Protel Bugs. - Flame start! On 11:24 PM 31/07/2002 -

Re: [PEDA] Re[2]: Not DXP or P99SE, but have you seen the Cadence offer!!!!

2002-08-01 Thread Bagotronix Tech Support
Rene: 1) Charging people the same amount for one big upgrade as all the missed upgrades 2) Forcing people buy each upgrade even if they don't want it 1 is functionally equivalent to 2. And vice versa. Best regards, Ivan Baggett Bagotronix Inc. website: www.bagotronix.com - Original Me

Re: [PEDA] Upgrade Pricing Ethics WAS: Not DXP or P99SE, but have you seen the Cadence offer!!!!

2002-08-01 Thread Bagotronix Tech Support
Yes, Rene, by definition, everything decided is a decision... However, some decisions are worse than others. This morning I decided whether to eat a bagel and grapefruit juice at home, or get a McDonald's biscuit and orange juice on the way to the office. I chose the McD biscuit. That was an OK

Re: [PEDA] rectangle hole?

2002-08-01 Thread Tim Fifield
My thanks to all who replied to this thread. Tim -Original Message- From: Igor Gmitrovic [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2002 11:25 PM To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: Re: [PEDA] rectangle hole? Tim, if you use those holes just for the mechanical fixing points, you c

Re: [PEDA] Re[2]: Not DXP or P99SE, but have you seen the Cadence offer!!!!

2002-08-01 Thread Tony Karavidas
It's like wanting to buy a new Porsche and you're trading in a 1979 924 or a 1997 911. Do you think just because you want to drive the 2002 model, they should give you equal trade up? Hey, you didn't drive the 1997 model for the past 5 years, why should you 'pay' for not using it? Companies do th

Re: [PEDA] Re[2]: Re[2]: Not DXP or P99SE, but have you seen the Cadence offer!!!!

2002-08-01 Thread Cam Andruik
I second this feeling. The whole Yearly Maintenance notion leaves a bad taste. It is 180 degrees from what was always attractive about Protel. Cam Andruik Harding Instruments -Original Message- From: Phillip Stevens [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: August 1, 2002 9:19 AM To: Protel ED

Re: [PEDA] DXP schematic, any good?

2002-08-01 Thread Brock Russell
>The ability to break a wire is already sort of there (in P99SE) - you have >to split the wire first. If you click (as if you are going to move it) on >a wire and then hit the INS key you will add a vertex. You can then >delete the wire you no longer want. Am I missing something here? Yes I

Re: [PEDA] OT Metric vs Imperial

2002-08-01 Thread John Ross
> -Original Message- > From: John Haddy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: 01 August 2002 16:31 > To: Protel EDA Forum > Subject: Re: [PEDA] OT Metric vs Imperial > > If the base units are metric then there will be NO rounding errors in > conversion! > e.g. if the base unit is one micron

Re: [PEDA] DXP comment, but slightly off topic

2002-08-01 Thread Rene Tschaggelar
not really. when i enter 0.05 inches, I want to see 50 mil and not 49.. And when I entered 0.625mm, I want to see 0.625mm and not 0.624999. Of course, when changing the grid from one to the other, I get some decimals. But when I change the grid back, the value should be the same. That should

Re: [PEDA] Re[2]: Re[2]: Not DXP or P99SE, but have you seen the Cadence offer!!!!

2002-08-01 Thread Rene Tschaggelar
forget ATS, you don't require it. we'll see what happens with future service packs. Whether ther are available for free or not. As to the online libraries : Without a decent library browser I consider supplied libraries useless. I'd rather have my own. Supplied footprint libraries are complete

Re: [PEDA] DXP comment, but slightly off topic

2002-08-01 Thread "Gütlein, Ralf"
> For me, the vast majority of components are hard metric > specified! I do > a lot of fine pitch SMD. True! Most *modern* packages are metric Examples: MQFP-144 (ST10F168) 0.65mm pitch FP-64A (Hitachi H8/3644, NEC 78F0034) 0.8mm pitch QFP14-80 (Epson SED1375) 0.5mm pitch TSOP-48 (AMD 29F400 F

Re: [PEDA] DXP comment, but slightly off topic

2002-08-01 Thread vincent mail

Re: [PEDA] OT Metric vs Imperial

2002-08-01 Thread vincent mail

Re: [PEDA] Not DXP or P99SE, but have you seen the Cadence offer! !!!

2002-08-01 Thread vincent mail

Re: [PEDA] Re[2]: Not DXP or P99SE, but have you seen the Cadence offer!!!!

2002-08-01 Thread Rene Tschaggelar
Isn't it the other way round ? Having bought the last version you're regarded as 'good' customer and get a higher discount than another one that bought something 10 years back ? Anyway, it is a decision. Microsoft decided in the case of office software that there are those who have a service agr

Re: [PEDA] Timezones - pls check

2002-08-01 Thread vincent mail

Re: [PEDA] Not DXP or P99SE, but have you seen the Cadence offer! !!!

2002-08-01 Thread vincent mail
Ian Wilson wrote: > On 09:20 AM 2/08/2002 -0400, vincent mail said: > > >> Exactly my point. Nothing can beat a PCB designer with 10 years >> experience. Computers are simply not smart and not adaptive enough. >> Most board tools are programmed by people that have never made a >> board in th

Re: [PEDA] Speaking of Protel Bugs.

2002-08-01 Thread vincent mail

Re: [PEDA] Not DXP or P99SE, but have you seen the Cadence offer! !!!

2002-08-01 Thread vincent mail
most of the maps here show 'here be monsters' if you leave the continent :-) :-) ( bg smile ) > * Tracking #: 32EB36542822AC47B9B364FCE3A184FFCE1ABE38 *

Re: [PEDA] OT Metric vs Imperial

2002-08-01 Thread John Haddy
John, If the base units are metric then there will be NO rounding errors in conversion! e.g. if the base unit is one micron then 0.1 thou = 2540 base units EXACTLY - there's no error introduced. However, if the base unit is english (no matter how fine), there is no error free conversion to metr

Re: [PEDA] DXP comment, but slightly off topic

2002-08-01 Thread Bagotronix Tech Support
The big gripe about the Imperial/metric issue is "who gets to contend with the extra digits to the right of the decimal point?" If the program works in Imperial natively, then using metric means the metric people have to contend with the extra digits. If the program works in metric natively, then

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