On Sun, 2010-09-12 at 17:04 -0400, Eric Prud'hommeaux wrote:
> [ . . . ] Offering people a units knob which they are
> forbidden turn is an invitation for well-intentioned invalid data.
I don't think that's correct. If I as an RDF author saw the following
example:
>> :x :has-attribute
> > [ a
#x27;hommeaux [mailto:eric...@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Eric
>> > Prud'hommeaux
>> > Sent: Saturday, September 11, 2010 5:13 PM
>> > To: Michel_Dumontier
>> > Cc: Lee Feigenbaum; Chimezie Ogbuji; public-semweb-lifesci@w3.org
>> > Subject: RE: [TMO] patien
On Sep 12, 2010, at 1:14 PM, Mark wrote:
or
:x :has-attribute
[ a :systolic-blood-pressure; :has-value 120; :has-unit unit:mPa ]
[ a :diastolic-blood-pressure; :has-value 80; :has-unit unit:mPa ]
This is how we are modeling clinical data in the SADI project.
Isn't this pretty much the
gt; > Cc: Lee Feigenbaum; Chimezie Ogbuji; public-semweb-lifesci@w3.org
> > Subject: RE: [TMO] patient record normalization
> >
> > * Michel_Dumontier [2010-09-11 11:31-
> > 0400]
> > > Hi Lee!
> > >
> > > > -Original Message-
> >
* Chimezie Ogbuji [2010-09-11 13:33-0400]
> Just wanted to pick up on the follow-your-nose argument.
You can pick your friends, and you can ...
I should say that I'm not a devout follow-your-nosist, but I do see
it as the default behavoir on the SemWeb (until we get some nifty
ontology repos whi
or
:x :has-attribute
[ a :systolic-blood-pressure; :has-value 120; :has-unit unit:mPa ]
[ a :diastolic-blood-pressure; :has-value 80; :has-unit unit:mPa ]
This is how we are modeling clinical data in the SADI project. We've now
switched to using Michel's SIO ontology, but we had an i
rday, September 11, 2010 2:54 AM
> > > To: Michel_Dumontier
> > > Cc: Eric Prud'hommeaux; Chimezie Ogbuji; public-semweb-
> life...@w3.org
> > > Subject: Re: [TMO] patient record normalization
> > >
> > > On 9/11/2010 2:04 AM, Michel_Dumontier w
* Kerstin Forsberg [2010-09-12 18:00+0200]
> Eric, Chime, Michel, Alan et al.'
>
> This is a truly important discussion for all of us that work on
> patient records / clinical data.
>
> Conclusions and recommendations on the issue of units for numerical
> data values given semantic web standards
* Chimezie Ogbuji [2010-09-11 13:16-0400]
> On 9/10/10 4:08 PM, "Eric Prud'hommeaux" wrote:
> >> ..snip ..
> >> I'm not so sure if the idea that databases with measurement data are likely
> >> to have mixed units is very compelling in the realm of patient data.
> >> Patient data is more than ofte
Eric, Chime, Michel, Alan et al.'
This is a truly important discussion for all of us that work on
patient records / clinical data.
Conclusions and recommendations on the issue of units for numerical
data values given semantic web standards and linked data principles
from the combined intelligenci
ric Prud'hommeaux; Chimezie Ogbuji; public-semweb-lifesci@w3.org
> > Subject: Re: [TMO] patient record normalization
> >
> > On 9/11/2010 2:04 AM, Michel_Dumontier wrote:
> > >>> It's not a restriction on the predicates - it's a restriction on
>
Just wanted to pick up on the follow-your-nose argument.
On 9/10/10 10:06 PM, "Eric Prud'hommeaux" wrote:
> Right, but tells whom, and when? including :measuredInUnits advertises
> a flexibility which you do not intend to honor. If I dereference
> :systolicMPa, I learn that the units are exactly
On 9/10/10 4:08 PM, "Eric Prud'hommeaux" wrote:
>> ..snip ..
>> I'm not so sure if the idea that databases with measurement data are likely
>> to have mixed units is very compelling in the realm of patient data.
>> Patient data is more than often local to a particular institution and their
>> conv
Hi Lee!
> -Original Message-
> From: Lee Feigenbaum [mailto:figt...@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Lee
> Feigenbaum
> Sent: Saturday, September 11, 2010 2:54 AM
> To: Michel_Dumontier
> Cc: Eric Prud'hommeaux; Chimezie Ogbuji; public-semweb-lifesci@w3.org
> Subject
I guess we should keep in mind that this discussion was (at least
originally) not about how units are represented on the Semantic Web, but how
they should be represented for a specific project: the TMO. Different
people, projects and communities will have different needs, and we will not
be abl
On 9/11/2010 2:04 AM, Michel_Dumontier wrote:
It's not a restriction on the predicates - it's a restriction on
instances of a certain class - like that of blood pressure
measurements. Checking consistency would tell you whether your data
conforms to the specification described by the ontology do
> > It's not a restriction on the predicates - it's a restriction on
> instances of a certain class - like that of blood pressure
> measurements. Checking consistency would tell you whether your data
> conforms to the specification described by the ontology document.
>
> Right, but tells whom, and
Chimezie Ogbuji; public-semweb-lifesci@w3.org
> > Subject: RE: [TMO] patient record normalization
> >
> > * Michel_Dumontier [2010-09-10 16:30-
> > 0400]
> > >
> > > > But then anyone merging two TMO documents with different units has
> > the
> >
> -Original Message-
> From: Eric Prud'hommeaux [mailto:eric...@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Eric
> Prud'hommeaux
> Sent: Friday, September 10, 2010 6:41 PM
> To: Michel_Dumontier
> Cc: Chimezie Ogbuji; public-semweb-lifesci@w3.org
> Subject: RE: [TM
* Michel_Dumontier [2010-09-10 16:30-0400]
>
> > But then anyone merging two TMO documents with different units has the
> > normalization burden. If we pick a unit and annotate the predicates,
> > then the folks who would have to do the work of merging with non-TMO
> > documents (who would have t
As usual, I agree with Scott (this is becoming a habit! LOL! Scott, we
should really try to work together more closely!)
It speaks to a conversation that I had with my review committee this
morning about how The Web was built by simply being completely open.
Anyone could (can) publish an
Hi Eric,
The business of standardizing units reminds me of:
http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2007/08jan_metricmoon/
followed by:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/462264.stm
For me, the story of losing an orbiter because of an accidental clash
between imperial and met
On Fri, 2010-09-10 at 16:08 -0400, Eric Prud'hommeaux wrote:
> If we pick a unit and annotate the predicates,
> then the folks who would have to do the work of merging with non-TMO
> documents (who would have to introduce some rules/canonicalization
> pipeline anyways) have the OWL hooks to automat
> But then anyone merging two TMO documents with different units has the
> normalization burden. If we pick a unit and annotate the predicates,
> then the folks who would have to do the work of merging with non-TMO
> documents (who would have to introduce some rules/canonicalization
> pipeline any
* Chimezie Ogbuji [2010-09-10 13:45-0400]
> Hello. Very interesting thread =). My $0.02. You say in your original
> email:
>
> >>> This greatly simplifies our life as we are otherwise likely to have a
> >>> variety of e.g. BP data in the database: 120/80 mmHg, 12/8 DmHg,
> >>> 16000/10667 Pa,
Hello. Very interesting thread =). My $0.02. You say in your original
email:
>>> This greatly simplifies our life as we are otherwise likely to have a
>>> variety of e.g. BP data in the database: 120/80 mmHg, 12/8 DmHg,
>>> 16000/10667 Pa,
>>> 16/11 MPa, 13 (PAM)
I'm not so sure if the idea th
We adopted the two component approach rather than the relation approach.
-Alan
On Sep 9, 2010, at 4:09 PM, Kerstin Forsberg > wrote:
The issue of units for measurements was also discussed (but not
solved?)
in the IAO (Information Artifact Ontology) group earlier this year,
see for example:
; -Original Message-
> > From: public-semweb-lifesci-requ...@w3.org [mailto:public-semweb-
> > lifesci-requ...@w3.org] On Behalf Of Eric Prud'hommeaux
> > Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2010 1:06 PM
> > To: public-semweb-lifesci@w3.org
> > Subject: [TMO] patien
The issue of units for measurements was also discussed (but not solved?)
in the IAO (Information Artifact Ontology) group earlier this year,
see for example:
http://groups.google.com/group/information-ontology/browse_thread/thread/59724cd906d31841
* Matthias Samwald [2010-09-09 21:42+0200]
> Eric wrote:
> >Another, potentially more attractive option, is to model units in the
> >predicate:
> >
> >:X trans:bloodPressure
> > [ trans:systolicMmHg "120" ;
> > trans:diastolicMmHg "80" ] .
> >
> >This greatly simplifies our life as we are otherw
Eric wrote:
Another, potentially more attractive option, is to model units in the
predicate:
:X trans:bloodPressure
[ trans:systolicMmHg "120" ;
trans:diastolicMmHg "80" ] .
This greatly simplifies our life as we are otherwise likely to have a
variety of e.g. BP data in the database: 120/80
6 PM
> To: public-semweb-lifesci@w3.org
> Subject: [TMO] patient record normalization
>
> We have choices about how to model units. per the first TMO RDF
> patient data, we can keep the units as datatypes:
>
> :X trans:bloodPressure
> [ trans:systolic "120
* Kashyap, Vipul A8MM [2010-09-09 14:22-0400]
>
> My 2 cents for whatever it's worth...
>
> > per CPR, as a pair of value and datatype:
> >
> > ... [ trans:systolic [ muo:measuredIn trans1:mmHg ;
> > muo:numericalValue "120" ] ;
> > trans:diastolic [ muo:measuredIn trans1:mmHg ;
> >
My 2 cents for whatever it's worth...
> per CPR, as a pair of value and datatype:
>
> ... [ trans:systolic [ muo:measuredIn trans1:mmHg ;
> muo:numericalValue "120" ] ;
> trans:diastolic [ muo:measuredIn trans1:mmHg ;
> muo:numericalValue "80" ] ] .
This is probably the best option as t
We have choices about how to model units. per the first TMO RDF
patient data, we can keep the units as datatypes:
:X trans:bloodPressure
[ trans:systolic "120"^^u:mmHg ;
trans:diastolic "80"^^u:mmHg ] .
per CPR, as a pair of value and datatype:
… [ trans:systolic [ muo:measuredIn trans1:mm
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