Re: [IndexedDB] Design Flaws: Not Stateless, Not Treating Objects As Opaque

2011-03-31 Thread Joran Greef
On 31 Mar 2011, at 1:01 AM, Jonas Sicking wrote: Anyhow, I do think that the idea of passing in index values at the same time as a entry is created/modified is an interesting idea. And I have said so in the past on this list. It's definitely something we should consider for v2. Oh, and if

Re: [IndexedDB] Design Flaws: Not Stateless, Not Treating Objects As Opaque

2011-03-31 Thread Jonas Sicking
On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 12:16 AM, Joran Greef jo...@ronomon.com wrote: On 31 Mar 2011, at 1:01 AM, Jonas Sicking wrote: Anyhow, I do think that the idea of passing in index values at the same time as a entry is created/modified is an interesting idea. And I have said so in the past on this

Re: [IndexedDB] Design Flaws: Not Stateless, Not Treating Objects As Opaque

2011-03-31 Thread Joran Greef
On 31 Mar 2011, at 9:53 AM, Jonas Sicking wrote: I previously have asked for a detailed proposal, but so far you have not supplied one but instead keep referring to other unnamed database APIs. I have already provided an adequate interface proposal for putObject and deleteObject. I have

Re: [IndexedDB] Design Flaws: Not Stateless, Not Treating Objects As Opaque

2011-03-31 Thread Joran Greef
On 31 Mar 2011, at 9:34 AM, Jeremy Orlow wrote: We have made an effort to understand other contributions to the field. I'm not convinced that these are essential database concepts and having personally spent quite some time working with the API in JS and implementing it, I feel pretty

Re: [IndexedDB] Design Flaws: Not Stateless, Not Treating Objects As Opaque

2011-03-31 Thread Keean Schupke
I was the one that asked for callbacks. but what do we do if those callbacks don't return consistent results? Or even do evil things like modify the stores where data is being inserted? If the callback maps all values to a sort-order of '1' there could only ever be one entry in the index...

Re: [IndexedDB] Design Flaws: Not Stateless, Not Treating Objects As Opaque

2011-03-31 Thread Keean Schupke
On 31 March 2011 08:38, Joran Greef jo...@ronomon.com wrote: On 31 Mar 2011, at 9:34 AM, Jeremy Orlow wrote: We have made an effort to understand other contributions to the field. I'm not convinced that these are essential database concepts and having personally spent quite some time

RfC: WebApps Testing Process

2011-03-31 Thread Arthur Barstow
Hi All, During the 2011 TPAC meeting, I agreed to an action (action-611) to work with Chaals and WebApps' Team Contacts to define the group's testing processes. To that end, I created the following documents: 1. http://www.w3.org/2008/webapps/wiki/Testing - some high level goals, and links

Re: [IndexedDB] Design Flaws: Not Stateless, Not Treating Objects As Opaque

2011-03-31 Thread Joran Greef
On 31 Mar 2011, at 12:52 PM, Keean Schupke wrote: I totally agree with everything so far... 3. This requires an adjustment to the putObject and deleteObject interfaces (see previous threads). I disagree that a simple API change is the answer. The problem is architectural, not just a

Re: [IndexedDB] Design Flaws: Not Stateless, Not Treating Objects As Opaque

2011-03-31 Thread Keean Schupke
On 31 March 2011 12:41, Joran Greef jo...@ronomon.com wrote: On 31 Mar 2011, at 12:52 PM, Keean Schupke wrote: I totally agree with everything so far... 3. This requires an adjustment to the putObject and deleteObject interfaces (see previous threads). I disagree that a simple API

Re: RfC: WebApps Testing Process

2011-03-31 Thread Robin Berjon
On Mar 31, 2011, at 14:04 , Arthur Barstow wrote: 1. What is the level of uptake of testharness.js within the HTML WG and other WGs? If any of these groups provide usage information, what are the URIs? Do any WGs make testharness.js's use Mandatory? Currently, its usage in the above

Re: RfC: WebApps Testing Process

2011-03-31 Thread Arthur Barstow
On Mar/31/2011 10:04 AM, ext Robin Berjon wrote: On Mar 31, 2011, at 14:04 , Arthur Barstow wrote: 1. What is the level of uptake of testharness.js within the HTML WG and other WGs? If any of these groups provide usage information, what are the URIs? Do any WGs make testharness.js's use

Re: SearchBox API

2011-03-31 Thread Sean Eagan
The reason I suggested web messaging is that more and more browser UI is being built on top of the web platform with things like chromeless [1] and chrome's WebUI [2], and this will likely include search boxes at some point. This would give the search box a natural endpoint browsing context for

Re: [WebSQL] Any future plans, or has IndexedDB replaced WebSQL?

2011-03-31 Thread Benjamin Poulain
On 03/31/2011 05:19 PM, ext Nathan Kitchen wrote: I've been watching discussions on IndexedDB for a while now, and wondered if anyone would mind spending a few moments to explain how IndexedDB is related (or not) to WebSQL. Is IndexedDB seen as replacing the functionality originally offered by

Re: [WebSQL] Any future plans, or has IndexedDB replaced WebSQL?

2011-03-31 Thread Nathan Kitchen
That's nice, pretty much what I was thinking but somewhat more complete : ) Is there not a w3 group progressing something like this? And if not, who would need to be lobbied to get one started?! As an aside, I note you didn't implement date as a supported data type. Was that a conscious decision,

Re: [WebSQL] Any future plans, or has IndexedDB replaced WebSQL?

2011-03-31 Thread Glenn Maynard
On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 11:43 AM, Benjamin Poulain benjamin.poul...@nokia.com wrote: WebSQL in its current form is pretty dead, see http://www.w3.org/TR/webdatabase/ : quoteBeware. This specification is no longer in active maintenance and the Web Applications Working Group does not intend to

Re: [WebSQL] Any future plans, or has IndexedDB replaced WebSQL?

2011-03-31 Thread Boris Zbarsky
On 3/31/11 12:06 PM, Glenn Maynard wrote: This is painful to read. WebSQL development died because SQLite, the most widely-deployed database software in the world, was too good? That sounds like a catastrophic failure of the W3C process. No, it actually sounds like a success; it prevented a

Re: [WebSQL] Any future plans, or has IndexedDB replaced WebSQL?

2011-03-31 Thread Keean Schupke
No real reason - just trying to implement a minimal framework. Date objects would be a definite must have going forward. I was interested in trying to get something like this standardised, as I believe it has none of the issues that stopped WebSQL, as it defines a complete relational API

Re: [IndexedDB] Design Flaws: Not Stateless, Not Treating Objects As Opaque

2011-03-31 Thread Jeremy Orlow
On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 1:38 AM, Joran Greef jo...@ronomon.com wrote: On 31 Mar 2011, at 9:34 AM, Jeremy Orlow wrote: We have made an effort to understand other contributions to the field. I'm not convinced that these are essential database concepts and having personally spent quite some

Re: [IndexedDB] Design Flaws: Not Stateless, Not Treating Objects As Opaque

2011-03-31 Thread Jeremy Orlow
On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 5:41 AM, Joran Greef jo...@ronomon.com wrote: On 31 Mar 2011, at 12:52 PM, Keean Schupke wrote: I totally agree with everything so far... 3. This requires an adjustment to the putObject and deleteObject interfaces (see previous threads). I disagree that a

Re: [IndexedDB] Design Flaws: Not Stateless, Not Treating Objects As Opaque

2011-03-31 Thread Jonas Sicking
On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 1:32 AM, Joran Greef jo...@ronomon.com wrote: On 31 Mar 2011, at 9:53 AM, Jonas Sicking wrote: I previously have asked for a detailed proposal, but so far you have not supplied one but instead keep referring to other unnamed database APIs. I have already provided an

Re: [IndexedDB] Design Flaws: Not Stateless, Not Treating Objects As Opaque

2011-03-31 Thread Keean Schupke
On 31 March 2011 18:17, Jeremy Orlow jor...@chromium.org wrote: On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 11:09 AM, Keean Schupke ke...@fry-it.com wrote: On 31 March 2011 17:41, Jonas Sicking jo...@sicking.cc wrote: On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 1:32 AM, Joran Greef jo...@ronomon.com wrote: On 31 Mar 2011, at

Re: [IndexedDB] Design Flaws: Not Stateless, Not Treating Objects As Opaque

2011-03-31 Thread Jeremy Orlow
On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 11:24 AM, Keean Schupke ke...@fry-it.com wrote: On 31 March 2011 18:17, Jeremy Orlow jor...@chromium.org wrote: On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 11:09 AM, Keean Schupke ke...@fry-it.com wrote: On 31 March 2011 17:41, Jonas Sicking jo...@sicking.cc wrote: On Thu, Mar 31, 2011

Re: [IndexedDB] Design Flaws: Not Stateless, Not Treating Objects As Opaque

2011-03-31 Thread Joran Greef
On 31 Mar 2011, at 7:27 PM, Jeremy Orlow wrote: 1. Provide the application with a first-class means to manage indexes at time of putting/deleting objects. I'm OK with doing this for v1 if the others are. It doesn't seem like that big of an addition and it would give a decent amount of

Re: [IndexedDB] Design Flaws: Not Stateless, Not Treating Objects As Opaque

2011-03-31 Thread Keean Schupke
On 31 March 2011 18:36, Jeremy Orlow jor...@chromium.org wrote: On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 11:24 AM, Keean Schupke ke...@fry-it.com wrote: On 31 March 2011 18:17, Jeremy Orlow jor...@chromium.org wrote: On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 11:09 AM, Keean Schupke ke...@fry-it.comwrote: On 31 March 2011

Re: [WebSQL] Any future plans, or has IndexedDB replaced WebSQL?

2011-03-31 Thread Joran Greef
This is painful to read. WebSQL development died because SQLite, the most widely-deployed database software in the world, was too good? That sounds like a catastrophic failure of the W3C process. -- Glenn Maynard Hear. I am starting to think that Mozilla will step up and provide an

Re: [WebSQL] Any future plans, or has IndexedDB replaced WebSQL?

2011-03-31 Thread Keean Schupke
On 31 March 2011 19:08, Joran Greef jo...@ronomon.com wrote: This is painful to read. WebSQL development died because SQLite, the most widely-deployed database software in the world, was too good? That sounds like a catastrophic failure of the W3C process. -- Glenn Maynard Hear. I

Mail List Etiquette [Was: WebSQL] Any future plans, or has IndexedDB replaced WebSQL?]

2011-03-31 Thread Arthur Barstow
This is painful to read. WebSQL development died because SQLite, the most widely-deployed database software in the world, was too good? That sounds like a catastrophic failure of the W3C process. -- Glenn Maynard Hear. I am starting to think that Mozilla will step up and provide an

Re: [IndexedDB] Design Flaws: Not Stateless, Not Treating Objects As Opaque

2011-03-31 Thread Shawn Wilsher
On 3/31/2011 11:47 AM, Joran Greef wrote: Let those who introduced these design flaws be among the first to take responsibility and fix them. You aren't being constructive, and that's a surefire way to be ignored. You have yet to convince the working group that these are design flaws in the

Re: Mail List Etiquette [Was: WebSQL] Any future plans, or has IndexedDB replaced WebSQL?]

2011-03-31 Thread Joran Greef
Thank you Art. To clarify, I have heard from a contributor to the specification in question who referred to LocalStorage himself as little more than a toy, expressing his frustrations at the specification. It is well known that most LocalStorage implementations do not support more than 10mb,

Re: [IndexedDB] Design Flaws: Not Stateless, Not Treating Objects As Opaque

2011-03-31 Thread Joran Greef
On 31 Mar 2011, at 10:07 PM, Shawn Wilsher wrote: On 3/31/2011 11:47 AM, Joran Greef wrote: Let those who introduced these design flaws be among the first to take responsibility and fix them. You aren't being constructive, and that's a surefire way to be ignored. You have yet to convince

RE: [FileAPI] Result of calling MultipleReads on FileReader

2011-03-31 Thread Adrian Bateman
On Thursday, March 31, 2011 10:19 AM, Arun Ranganathan wrote: On 3/30/11 2:01 PM, Eric Uhrhane wrote: On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 5:37 PM, Adrian Batemanadria...@microsoft.com wrote: Is there a reason for the current spec text? I don't know the original rationale, but in the absence of any

Re: [FileAPI] Result of calling MultipleReads on FileReader

2011-03-31 Thread Eric Uhrhane
On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 2:55 PM, Adrian Bateman adria...@microsoft.com wrote: On Thursday, March 31, 2011 10:19 AM, Arun Ranganathan wrote: On 3/30/11 2:01 PM, Eric Uhrhane wrote: On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 5:37 PM, Adrian Batemanadria...@microsoft.com wrote: Is there a reason for the current

Re: Offline Web Applications status

2011-03-31 Thread Michael Nordman
Hi again, I have in mind several extensions to the ApplicationCache that I think could address some of the additional desirements from the web developement community. I'll post them here because people seem to be more willing to have a discussion on the topic here than over in whatwg. 1. Allow

RE: [IndexedDB] Design Flaws: Not Stateless, Not Treating Objects As Opaque

2011-03-31 Thread Pablo Castro
From: jor...@google.com [mailto:jor...@google.com] On Behalf Of Jeremy Orlow Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 11:36 AM I can find a lot of stuff on collation, but not a lot about why it could not be done in a library. Could you summerise the reasons why this needs to be core functionality for

[Bug 11269] Evaluating keyPaths needs to be better specified

2011-03-31 Thread bugzilla
http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=11269 Jeremy Orlow jor...@chromium.org changed: What|Removed |Added Status|NEW |RESOLVED

Re: [IndexedDB] Design Flaws: Not Stateless, Not Treating Objects As Opaque

2011-03-31 Thread Keean Schupke
Currently there are no APIs in JavaScript to compare strings using specific collations We dont actually need this, just a mapping from UTF-16 string to a sort-score (binary blob). Its true that downloading the collation tables might take time, so we could just provide: var blob =

[Bug 12233] We should add a method to compare two IndxedDB keys

2011-03-31 Thread bugzilla
http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=12233 Jeremy Orlow jor...@chromium.org changed: What|Removed |Added Status|NEW |RESOLVED