Re: [Python-Dev] Divorcing str and unicode (no more implicit conversions).

2005-10-31 Thread François Pinard
[Greg Ewing] >> All development is done in house by French people. All documentation, >> external or internal, comments, identifier and function names, >> everything is in French. > There's nothing stopping you from creating your own Frenchified > version of Python that lets you use all the c

Re: [Python-Dev] a different kind of reduce...

2005-10-31 Thread Greg Ewing
Martin Blais wrote: > I'm always--literally every time-- looking for a more functional form, > something that would be like this: > ># apply dirname() 3 times on its results, initializing with p >... = repapply(dirname, 3, p) Maybe ** should be defined for functions so that you could do

Re: [Python-Dev] Divorcing str and unicode (no more implicit conversions).

2005-10-31 Thread Greg Ewing
François Pinard wrote: > All development is done in house by French people. All documentation, > external or internal, comments, identifier and function names, > everything is in French. There's nothing stopping you from creating your own Frenchified version of Python that lets you use all the

Re: [Python-Dev] Freezing the CVS on Oct 26 for SVN switchover

2005-10-31 Thread Gary Herron
Guido van Rossum wrote: >Help! > >What's the magic to get $Revision$ and $Date$ to be expanded upon >checkin? Comparing pep-0352.txt and pep-0343.txt, I noticed that the >latter has the svn revision and date in the headers, while the former >still has Brett's original revision 1.5 and a date somew

Re: [Python-Dev] Freezing the CVS on Oct 26 for SVN switchover

2005-10-31 Thread François Pinard
[Guido van Rossum] >What's the magic to get $Revision$ and $Date$ to be expanded upon >checkin? Expansion does not occur on checkin, but on checkout, and even then, only in your copy -- that one you see (the internal Subversion copy is untouched). You have to edit a property for the file where

Re: [Python-Dev] Freezing the CVS on Oct 26 for SVN switchover

2005-10-31 Thread Tim Peters
[Guido] > Help! > > What's the magic to get $Revision$ and $Date$ to be expanded upon > checkin? Comparing pep-0352.txt and pep-0343.txt, I noticed that the > latter has the svn revision and date in the headers, while the former > still has Brett's original revision 1.5 and a date somewhere in June

Re: [Python-Dev] Freezing the CVS on Oct 26 for SVN switchover

2005-10-31 Thread Guido van Rossum
Help! What's the magic to get $Revision$ and $Date$ to be expanded upon checkin? Comparing pep-0352.txt and pep-0343.txt, I noticed that the latter has the svn revision and date in the headers, while the former still has Brett's original revision 1.5 and a date somewhere in June. I tried to fix th

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 351, the freeze protocol

2005-10-31 Thread Noam Raphael
I thought about something - > > I think that the performance penalty may be rather small - remember > that in programs which do not change strings, there would never be a > need to copy the string data at all. And since I think that usually > most of the dict lookups are for method or function name

Re: [Python-Dev] a different kind of reduce...

2005-10-31 Thread Paul Moore
On 10/31/05, Martin Blais <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I'm always--literally every time-- looking for a more functional form, > something that would be like this: > ># apply dirname() 3 times on its results, initializing with p >... = repapply(dirname, 3, p) [...] > Just wondering, does an

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 351, the freeze protocol

2005-10-31 Thread Noam Raphael
On 10/31/05, Josiah Carlson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: ... > And I'm going to point out why you are wrong. I still don't think so. I think that I need to reclarify what I mean. > > About the users-changing-my-internal-data issue: ... > You can have a printout before it dies: > "I'm crashing your

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 351, the freeze protocol

2005-10-31 Thread Josiah Carlson
Noam Raphael <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hello, > > I have slept quite well, and talked about it with a few people, and I > still think I'm right. And I'm going to point out why you are wrong. > About the users-changing-my-internal-data issue: > > > Again, user semantics. Tell your users not

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 351, the freeze protocol

2005-10-31 Thread Josiah Carlson
Steve Holden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Josiah Carlson wrote: > [...] > >>Perhaps I didn't make it clear. The difference between wxPython's Grid > >>and my table is that in the table, most values are *computed*. This > >>means that there's no point in changing the values themselves. They > >>

Re: [Python-Dev] a different kind of reduce...

2005-10-31 Thread Aahz
On Mon, Oct 31, 2005, Martin Blais wrote: > > There is a way to hack something like that with reduce, but it's not > pretty--it involves creating a temporary list and a lambda function: > > ... = reduce(lambda x, y: dirname(x), [p] + [None] * 3) > > Just wondering, does anybody know how to do t

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 351, the freeze protocol

2005-10-31 Thread Noam Raphael
Hello, I have slept quite well, and talked about it with a few people, and I still think I'm right. About the users-changing-my-internal-data issue: > Again, user semantics. Tell your users not to modify entries, and/or > you can make copies of objects you return. If your users are too daft >

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 352 Transition Plan

2005-10-31 Thread Guido van Rossum
I've made a final pass over PEP 352, mostly fixing the __str__, __unicode__ and __repr__ methods to behave more reasonably. I'm all for accepting it now. Does anybody see any last-minute show-stopping problems with it? As always, http://python.org/peps/pep-0352.html -- --Guido van Rossum (home pa

[Python-Dev] a different kind of reduce...

2005-10-31 Thread Martin Blais
Hi I find myself occasionally doing this: ... = dirname(dirname(dirname(p))) I'm always--literally every time-- looking for a more functional form, something that would be like this: # apply dirname() 3 times on its results, initializing with p ... = repapply(dirname, 3, p) There is a

Re: [Python-Dev] i18n identifiers

2005-10-31 Thread M.-A. Lemburg
Martin v. Löwis wrote: > Steve Holden wrote: > >>Therefore, if such steps are really going to be considered, I would >>really like to see them introduced in such a way that no breakage occurs >>for existing users, even the parochial ones who feel they (and their >>programs) don't need to unders

Re: [Python-Dev] i18n identifiers (was: Divorcing str and unicode (no more implicit conversions).

2005-10-31 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Steve Holden wrote: > Therefore, if such steps are really going to be considered, I would > really like to see them introduced in such a way that no breakage occurs > for existing users, even the parochial ones who feel they (and their > programs) don't need to understand anything but ASCII. It

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 351, the freeze protocol

2005-10-31 Thread Oren Tirosh
On 10/31/05, Antoine Pitrou <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > It allows everything in Python to be both mutable and hashable, > > I don't understand, since it's already the case. Any user-defined object > is at the same time mutable and hashable. By default, user-defined objects are equal iff they

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 351, the freeze protocol

2005-10-31 Thread Steve Holden
Josiah Carlson wrote: [...] >>Perhaps I didn't make it clear. The difference between wxPython's Grid >>and my table is that in the table, most values are *computed*. This >>means that there's no point in changing the values themselves. They >>are also used frequently as set members (I can describe

Re: [Python-Dev] Divorcing str and unicode (no more implicit conversions).

2005-10-31 Thread Steve Holden
Adam Olsen wrote: > On 10/30/05, François Pinard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >>All development is done in house by French people. All documentation, >>external or internal, comments, identifier and function names, >>everything is in French. Some of the developers here have had a long >>programm

Re: [Python-Dev] StreamHandler eating exceptions

2005-10-31 Thread Guido van Rossum
I wonder if, once PEP 352 is accepted, this shouldn't be changed so that there is only one except clause instead of two, and it says "except Exception:". This has roughly the same effect as the proposed (and already applied) patch, but does it in a Python-3000-compatible way. ATM it is less robust

Re: [Python-Dev] StreamHandler eating exceptions

2005-10-31 Thread Vinay Sajip
Gustavo Niemeyer niemeyer.net> writes: > > The StreamHandler available under the logging package is currently > catching all exceptions under the emit() method call. In the > Handler.handleError() documentation it's mentioned that it's > implemented like that because users do not care about erro