[Python-Dev] PEP 291 versus Python 3

Good morning python-dev, PEP 291 (Backward Compatibility for Standard Library) does not seem to take Python 3 into account. Is this PEP only relevant for the 2.7 branch?* If it’s supposed to apply to 3.x too, despite the view that 3.0 was a clean break, what does it mean to have a module that is

Re: [Python-Dev] Python and the Unicode Character Database

Steven D'Aprano writes: > But in any case, please don't conflate the question of whether Python > should accept j and/or i for complex numbers with the question of > supporting non-arabic numerals. The two issues are unrelated. Different, yes, unrelated, no. They're both about whether varia

Re: [Python-Dev] Python and the Unicode Character Database

M.-A. Lemburg writes: > Just because ASCII-proponents may have a hard time reading such > literals, That's not the point. > doesn't mean that script users have the same trouble. The script users may have no trouble reading them, but that doesn't mean it's not a YAGNI. In Japanese, it's a YA

Re: [Python-Dev] Python and the Unicode Character Database

On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 5:09 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote: .. > But in any case, please don't conflate the question of whether Python should > accept j and/or i for complex numbers with the question of supporting > non-arabic numerals. The two issues are unrelated. The two issues are related because

Re: [Python-Dev] constant/enum type in stdlib

On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 7:36 AM, Greg Ewing wrote: > I don't see how the grouping can be completely separated > from the value-naming. If the named values are to be > subclassed from the base values, then you want all the > members of a group to belong to the *same* subclass. > You can't get that

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 384 final review

On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 12:15 AM, James Y Knight wrote: > > On Nov 29, 2010, at 8:58 AM, Nick Coghlan wrote: > > The http read only URLs > didn't work (no diff returned, just "svn: OPTIONS of > 'http://svn.python.org/python/branches/pep-0384': 200 OK > (http://svn.python.org)"), > > That was the w

Re: [Python-Dev] constant/enum type in stdlib

On 11/28/2010 09:03 PM, Ron Adam wrote: It does associate additional info to names and creates a nice dictionary to reference. >>> def name_values( FOO: 1, BAR: "Hello World!", BAZ: dict(a=1, b=2, c=3) ): ... return FOO, BAR, BAZ ... >>> foo(1,2,3) (1, 2, 3) >>> foo.__annotations__ {'BAR'

Re: [Python-Dev] Python and the Unicode Character Database

Alexander Belopolsky wrote: Speaking of YAGNI, does anyone want to defend complex('١٢٣٤.٥٦j') 1234.56j *If* we allow float('١٢٣٤.٥٦') (as we currently do, but is being disputed by some), then we should allow complex('١٢٣٤.٥٦j'). It would be silly for complex to be more restrictive than fl

Re: [Python-Dev] constant/enum type in stdlib

I don't see how the grouping can be completely separated from the value-naming. If the named values are to be subclassed from the base values, then you want all the members of a group to belong to the *same* subclass. You can't get that by treating each named value on its own and then trying to gr

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 384 final review

Am 29.11.2010 09:36, schrieb Georg Brandl: > Am 29.11.2010 09:09, schrieb "Martin v. Löwis": >>> I have now completed >>> >>> http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0384/ >>> >>> >>> was structseq.h considered? >> >> No, it wasn't - unfortunately, it still doesn't get included when >> including

Re: [Python-Dev] Python and the Unicode Character Database

> - Should Python documentation refer to the specific version of Unicode > that it supports? You mean, mention it somewhere? Sure (although it would be nice if the documentation generator would automatically extract it from the source, just as it extracts the Python version number). Of course, su

Re: [Python-Dev] Python and the Unicode Character Database

Am 29.11.2010 19:33, schrieb Antoine Pitrou: > On Mon, 29 Nov 2010 08:22:46 +0100 > "Martin v. Löwis" wrote: >>> The former ensures that literals in code are always readable; the later >>> allows users to enter numbers in their own number system. How could that >>> be a bad thing? >> >> It's YAGNI

Re: [Python-Dev] constant/enum type in stdlib

Rob Cliffe wrote: But when a frozen list a.k.a. tuple would be created - either directly, or by setting a list's mutable flag to False which would really turn it into a tuple - the size *would* be known. But at that point the object consists of two memory blocks -- one containing just the obj

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 384 final review

Am 29.11.2010 14:14, schrieb Éric Araujo: > Hello, > >> Please comment with any changes you want to see, or speak in >> favor or against this PEP. > > How to get a diff between py3k and this branch? As others have already explained: svn diff http://svn.python.org/projects/python/branches/p...@8

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 384 final review

> This is probably an issue independent of the PEP but there appear to > be a *lot* of exposed typedefs for various type slots and other > function signatures that don't start with the Py prefix (i.e. getter, > setter, unaryfunc and friends). It's indeed independent: the names don't actually affec

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 384 final review

> Extensions built with Py_LIMITED_API have the python version encoded in > it's name. Which abi name should be used for these extensions? PEP 3149, IIUC, says it should be "abi3". I don't understand what that means, though (with respect to, say, distutils) > - The m and u modifiers in the abi

Re: [Python-Dev] python3k : imp.find_module raises SyntaxError

On 11/29/2010 01:22 PM, Brett Cannon wrote: On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 03:53, Sylvain Thénault wrote: On 25 novembre 11:22, Ron Adam wrote: On 11/25/2010 08:30 AM, Emile Anclin wrote: hello, working on Pylint, we have a lot of voluntary corrupted files to test Pylint behavior; for instance

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 384 final review

2010/11/29 "Martin v. Löwis" : >>>  - Should the distutils support for LIMITED_API be part of the pep, or >>>   be implemented later? >> >> In any case, it has to be implemented in Distutils2, not in Distutils. >> Distutils is frozen and just in maintenance mode. > > I think it's too late for that.

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 384 final review

>> - Should the distutils support for LIMITED_API be part of the pep, or >> be implemented later? > > In any case, it has to be implemented in Distutils2, not in Distutils. > Distutils is frozen and just in maintenance mode. I think it's too late for that. PEP 3149 is accepted, and it does spe

Re: [Python-Dev] Python and the Unicode Character Database

On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 2:23 PM, Terry Reedy wrote: .. > Since you are the knowledgable advocate of the current behavior, perhaps you > could open an issue and propose a doc patch, even if not .rst formatted. > I am not an advocate of the current behavior, but an issue for doc patches is at

Re: [Python-Dev] Python and the Unicode Character Database

On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 1:33 PM, Antoine Pitrou wrote: > On Mon, 29 Nov 2010 08:22:46 +0100 > "Martin v. Löwis" wrote: >> > The former ensures that literals in code are always readable; the later >> > allows users to enter numbers in their own number system. How could that >> > be a bad thing? >>

Re: [Python-Dev] Python and the Unicode Character Database

On 11/29/2010 10:19 AM, M.-A. Lemburg wrote: Nick Coghlan wrote: On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 9:02 PM, M.-A. Lemburg wrote: If we would go down that road, we would also have to disable other Unicode features based on locale, e.g. whether to apply non-ASCII case mappings, what to consider whitespace

Re: [Python-Dev] python3k : imp.find_module raises SyntaxError

On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 03:53, Sylvain Thénault wrote: > On 25 novembre 11:22, Ron Adam wrote: >> On 11/25/2010 08:30 AM, Emile Anclin wrote: >> > >> >hello, >> > >> >working on Pylint, we have a lot of voluntary corrupted files to test >> >Pylint behavior; for instance >> > >> >$ cat /home/emile/

Re: [Python-Dev] Python and the Unicode Character Database

Alexander Belopolsky wrote: > On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 2:22 AM, "Martin v. Löwis" wrote: >>> The former ensures that literals in code are always readable; the later >>> allows users to enter numbers in their own number system. How could that >>> be a bad thing? >> >> It's YAGNI, feature bloat. It g

Re: [Python-Dev] Python and the Unicode Character Database

On Mon, 29 Nov 2010 08:22:46 +0100 "Martin v. Löwis" wrote: > > The former ensures that literals in code are always readable; the later > > allows users to enter numbers in their own number system. How could that > > be a bad thing? > > It's YAGNI, feature bloat. It gives the illusion of supporti

Re: [Python-Dev] Python and the Unicode Character Database

On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 2:22 AM, "Martin v. Löwis" wrote: >> The former ensures that literals in code are always readable; the later >> allows users to enter numbers in their own number system. How could that >> be a bad thing? > > It's YAGNI, feature bloat. It gives the illusion of supporting som

Re: [Python-Dev] [Preview] Comments and change proposals on documentation

On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 3:52 AM, Georg Brandl wrote: .. >> Yes, I failed to fully read the instructions you sent, or understand >> them. That's what users do -- they don't read your instructions, and >> they misunderstand them. If your UI isn't easily discoverable, users >> will not be able to use

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 384 final review

On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 11:24 AM, Matthias Klose wrote: > On 29.11.2010 00:40, "Martin v. Löwis" wrote: >> >> I have now completed >> >> http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0384/ >> >> Benjamin has volunteered to rule on this PEP. >> >> Please comment with any changes you want to see, or speak in >

Re: [Python-Dev] Python and the Unicode Character Database

Nick Coghlan wrote: > On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 9:02 PM, M.-A. Lemburg wrote: >> If we would go down that road, we would also have to disable other >> Unicode features based on locale, e.g. whether to apply non-ASCII >> case mappings, what to consider whitespace, etc. >> >> We don't do that for a go

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 384 final review

On Nov 29, 2010, at 8:58 AM, Nick Coghlan wrote: > The http read only URLs > didn't work (no diff returned, just "svn: OPTIONS of > 'http://svn.python.org/python/branches/pep-0384': 200 OK > (http://svn.python.org)"), That was the wrong url: you should've used http://svn.python.org/projects/py

Re: [Python-Dev] Python and the Unicode Character Database

On Sun, 28 Nov 2010 21:32:15 -0500 Alexander Belopolsky wrote: > On Sun, Nov 28, 2010 at 6:43 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote: > .. > >> is more important than to assure users that once their program > >> accepted some text as a number, they can assume that the text is > >> ASCII. > > > > Seems like a

Re: [Python-Dev] Python and the Unicode Character Database

On Mon, 29 Nov 2010 13:58:05 +1000 Nick Coghlan wrote: > On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 1:39 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull > wrote: > > I agree that Python should make it easy for the programmer to get > > numerical values of native numeric strings, but it's not at all clear > > to me that there is any point

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 384 final review

On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 9:40 AM, "Martin v. Löwis" wrote: > I have now completed > > http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0384/ > > Benjamin has volunteered to rule on this PEP. > > Please comment with any changes you want to see, or speak in > favor or against this PEP. This is probably an issue i

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 384 final review

On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 11:37 PM, Matthias Klose wrote: > On 29.11.2010 14:14, Éric Araujo wrote: >> >> Hello, >> >>> Please comment with any changes you want to see, or speak in >>> favor or against this PEP. >> >> How to get a diff between py3k and this branch? > > I used > svn diff svn://svn.py

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 384 final review

On 29.11.2010 14:14, Éric Araujo wrote: Hello, Please comment with any changes you want to see, or speak in favor or against this PEP. How to get a diff between py3k and this branch? I used svn diff svn://svn.python.org/python/branches/p...@84330 svn://svn.python.org/python/branches/pep-03

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 384 final review

Hello, > Please comment with any changes you want to see, or speak in > favor or against this PEP. How to get a diff between py3k and this branch? Regards ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python

Re: [Python-Dev] Python and the Unicode Character Database

On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 9:02 PM, M.-A. Lemburg wrote: > If we would go down that road, we would also have to disable other > Unicode features based on locale, e.g. whether to apply non-ASCII > case mappings, what to consider whitespace, etc. > > We don't do that for a good reason: Unicode is suppo

Re: [Python-Dev] python3k : imp.find_module raises SyntaxError

On 25 novembre 11:22, Ron Adam wrote: > On 11/25/2010 08:30 AM, Emile Anclin wrote: > > > >hello, > > > >working on Pylint, we have a lot of voluntary corrupted files to test > >Pylint behavior; for instance > > > >$ cat /home/emile/var/pylint/test/input/func_unknown_encoding.py > ># -*- coding: IB

Re: [Python-Dev] Python and the Unicode Character Database

Nick Coghlan wrote: > On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 1:39 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull > wrote: >> I agree that Python should make it easy for the programmer to get >> numerical values of native numeric strings, but it's not at all clear >> to me that there is any point to having float() recognize them by >>

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 384 final review

On 29.11.2010 00:40, "Martin v. Löwis" wrote: I have now completed http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0384/ Benjamin has volunteered to rule on this PEP. Please comment with any changes you want to see, or speak in favor or against this PEP. I looked at a diff with r84330 from the py3k branc

Re: [Python-Dev] [Preview] Comments and change proposals on documentation

Am 28.11.2010 00:58, schrieb Steven D'Aprano: > Georg Brandl wrote: >> Am 27.11.2010 23:11, schrieb Steven D'Aprano: > >>> I wasn't able to find a comment bubble that contained anything, so I >>> don't know what sort of information you expect them to contain -- every >>> one I tried said "0 comm

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 384 final review

Am 29.11.2010 09:09, schrieb "Martin v. Löwis": >> I have now completed >> >> http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0384/ >> >> >> was structseq.h considered? > > No, it wasn't - unfortunately, it still doesn't get included when > including Python.h. I'll add it. Would 3.2 be a good time

Re: [Python-Dev] Python and the Unicode Character Database

Alexander Belopolsky wrote: > On Sun, Nov 28, 2010 at 5:42 PM, M.-A. Lemburg wrote: > .. >> I don't see why the language spec should limit the wealth of number >> formats supported by float(). >> > > The Language Spec (whatever it is) should not, but hopefully the > Library Reference should. If

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 384 final review

> I have now completed > > http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0384/ > > > was structseq.h considered? No, it wasn't - unfortunately, it still doesn't get included when including Python.h. I'll add it. > IMO it could be made PEP384-compliant with two additions that would > replace two n