[Python-Dev] Re: Recent PEP-8 change

On 4/07/20 4:33 am, Jim J. Jewett wrote: If Bob and Alice seem neutral to you, would you do a double-take on Kehinde or Oladotun? Maybe we should use randomly generated names for hypothetical persons? -- Greg ___ Python-Dev mailing list --

[Python-Dev] Re: Recent PEP-8 change (Antoine Pitrou)

On 4/07/20 4:52 am, Jim J. Jewett wrote: Specifying British English "British English" is woefully underspecified -- there are probably more variants of English used in Britain than in the rest of the world put together. -- Greg ___ Python-Dev

[Python-Dev] [RELEASE] Python 3.9.0b4 is now ready for testing

On behalf of the entire Python development community, and the currently serving Python release team in particular, I’m pleased to announce the release of Python 3.9.0b4. Get it here: https://www.python.org/downloads/release/python-390b4/

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 622 railroaded through?

On 7/1/2020 4:14 PM, Rob Cliffe via Python-Dev wrote: I have an uneasy feeling about this PEP. I can understand that. AFAIK the usual procedure for adding a new feature to Python is:     An idea is raised and attracts some support.     Someone sufficiently motivated writes a PEP.     The

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 622 railroaded through?

On Fri, Jul 3, 2020 at 7:39 AM Rob Cliffe via Python-Dev < python-dev@python.org> wrote: > Whoa! > > I have an uneasy feeling about this PEP. > > AFAIK the usual procedure for adding a new feature to Python is: > An idea is raised and attracts some support. > Someone sufficiently

[Python-Dev] Re: Stable ABI question.

On Thu, Jul 2, 2020 at 8:05 PM Inada Naoki wrote: > On Thu, Jul 2, 2020 at 7:28 PM Victor Stinner wrote: > > > > Hi, > > > > Last time I looked at PyEval_AcquireLock(), it was used in the wild, > > but I don't recall exactly where, sorry :-( Before removing the > > functions, I suggest to first

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 622 railroaded through?

On Fri, Jul 3, 2020, 12:40 Eric Snow wrote: > Also, keep in mind that PEPs are a tool for the decision maker (i.e. > BDFL delegate). Effectively, everything else is convention. The process > usually involves community feedback, but has never been community-driven. > All this has become more

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 622 railroaded through?

On Fri, Jul 3, 2020, 09:18 Antoine Pitrou wrote: > I think what you describe as "the usual procedure" isn't as usual as > you think. > +1 Also, keep in mind that PEPs are a tool for the decision maker (i.e. BDFL delegate). Effectively, everything else is convention. The process usually

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 622 railroaded through?

On Fri, Jul 3, 2020 at 4:42 PM Rob Cliffe via Python-Dev < python-dev@python.org> wrote: > And since the PEP has Guido's authority behind it, I think > it is likely that it will eventually be accepted pretty much as it was > originally written. > This seems a bit unfair to Guido. He seems to put

[Python-Dev] Re: Flexible assignment targets

On 7/3/2020 8:28 AM, Rhodri James wrote: On 03/07/2020 00:12, Nick Coghlan wrote: On Fri., 3 Jul. 2020, 2:27 am MRAB, wrote: match shape: try Point(x, y): ... try Rectangle(x0, y0, x1, y1, painted=True): ... I'm actually surprised at how much I like that.  It

[Python-Dev] Summary of Python tracker Issues

ACTIVITY SUMMARY (2020-06-26 - 2020-07-03) Python tracker at https://bugs.python.org/ To view or respond to any of the issues listed below, click on the issue. Do NOT respond to this message. Issues counts and deltas: open7520 (+30) closed 45424 (+44) total 52944 (+74) Open issues

[Python-Dev] Re: Recent PEP-8 change

On Thu, Jul 02, 2020 at 12:47:07PM -0400, Piper Thunstrom wrote: > Over the last handful of decades, singular "they" has been explicitly > taught as inappropriate. My own college writing classes (only 10 years > ago now) included this specific piece of advice. > > In terms of modern English

[Python-Dev] Re: Recent PEP-8 change (Antoine Pitrou)

On 2020-07-03 17:52, Jim J. Jewett wrote: Specifying British English (as opposed to just British spelling) would probably tempt people to use more Brit-only idioms, in the same way that Monty Python tempts people to make Flying Circus references. I don't love the idea of talking more about

[Python-Dev] Re: Recent PEP-8 change (Antoine Pitrou)

Specifying British English (as opposed to just British spelling) would probably tempt people to use more Brit-only idioms, in the same way that Monty Python tempts people to make Flying Circus references. I don't love the idea of talking more about how many zeroes in a billion, or whether

[Python-Dev] Re: Recent PEP-8 change

The biggest problem with this is figuring out when to switch. If you switch within a single example, you will confuse many readers. If you have a series of related examples, people will disagree about when it is reasonable to substitute a new person. Using specific personal names (Alice

[Python-Dev] Re: Recent PEP-8 change

If the writing is less formal (and I think most comments and even most documentation is somewhat informal), you can sometimes just address the reader directly, as "you". For the most formal writing most people will ever encounter, one can use "one" as the singular pronoun of indeterminate

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 622 railroaded through?

On Wed, 1 Jul 2020 21:14:00 +0100 Rob Cliffe via Python-Dev wrote: > Whoa! > > I have an uneasy feeling about this PEP. > > AFAIK the usual procedure for adding a new feature to Python is: >     An idea is raised and attracts some support. >     Someone sufficiently motivated writes a PEP. >

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 622 railroaded through?

On Sat, Jul 4, 2020 at 12:48 AM Rob Cliffe via Python-Dev wrote: > > Whoa! > > I have an uneasy feeling about this PEP. > > AFAIK the usual procedure for adding a new feature to Python is: > An idea is raised and attracts some support. > Someone sufficiently motivated writes a PEP. >

[Python-Dev] PEP 622 railroaded through?

Whoa! I have an uneasy feeling about this PEP. AFAIK the usual procedure for adding a new feature to Python is:     An idea is raised and attracts some support.     Someone sufficiently motivated writes a PEP.     The PEP is thoroughly discussed.     Eventually a consensus (or at least an

[Python-Dev] Re: When can we remove wchar_t* cache from string?

Sorry, ignore my comment: Cython no longer uses PyUnicode_FromString(NULL, 0) in the master branch. The change was backported to the 0.29.x branch, but this stable branch requires a second fix, so I wrote it: https://github.com/cython/cython/pull/3721 Victor Le ven. 3 juil. 2020 à 16:00, Victor

[Python-Dev] Re: When can we remove wchar_t* cache from string?

Le sam. 13 juin 2020 à 12:39, Inada Naoki a écrit : > Of course, there is an API to create an empty string: PyUnicode_New(0, 0); > But since Cython is using `PyUnicode_FromString(NULL, 0)`, > keep it working for some versions will mitigate the breaking change. > Note that we can remove wchar_t

[Python-Dev] Re: Recent PEP-8 change (Antoine Pitrou)

On Fri, 3 Jul 2020 at 14:28, Chris Angelico wrote: > On Fri, Jul 3, 2020 at 11:03 PM Ivan Pozdeev via Python-Dev > wrote: > > > > > > On 03.07.2020 15:26, Henk-Jaap Wagenaar wrote: > > > > On Fri, 3 Jul 2020 at 13:10, Ivan Pozdeev wrote: > >> > >> So what? > > > > Unnecessary > >> > >> They'll

[Python-Dev] Re: Recent PEP-8 change (Antoine Pitrou)

On Fri, Jul 3, 2020 at 11:03 PM Ivan Pozdeev via Python-Dev wrote: > > > On 03.07.2020 15:26, Henk-Jaap Wagenaar wrote: > > On Fri, 3 Jul 2020 at 13:10, Ivan Pozdeev wrote: >> >> So what? > > Unnecessary >> >> They'll have to synchronise their history to ours to be able to make a PR. >> And if

[Python-Dev] Re: Recent PEP-8 change (Antoine Pitrou)

On 03.07.2020 15:26, Henk-Jaap Wagenaar wrote: On Fri, 3 Jul 2020 at 13:10, Ivan Pozdeev mailto:v...@mail.mipt.ru>> wrote: So what? Unnecessary They'll have to synchronise their history to ours to be able to make a PR. And if they don't, it doesn't matter for us what they do

[Python-Dev] Re: Flexible assignment targets

On 03/07/2020 00:12, Nick Coghlan wrote: On Fri., 3 Jul. 2020, 2:27 am MRAB, wrote: IMHO, the assignment statement should remain as it is, not sometimes assign and sometimes not. There could be another form that does matching: try ?x, 0 = (4,5) Huh, this made me wonder if

[Python-Dev] Re: Recent PEP-8 change (Antoine Pitrou)

On Fri, 3 Jul 2020 at 13:10, Ivan Pozdeev wrote: > So what? > Unnecessary > They'll have to synchronise their history to ours to be able to make a PR. > And if they don't, it doesn't matter for us what they do with the data > anyway since they are responsible for maintaining it and keeping it >

[Python-Dev] Re: Recent PEP-8 change (Antoine Pitrou)

On 03/07/2020 01:10, Łukasz Langa wrote: Commit messages aren't usually scrutinized to this extent. Commit messages are usually political statements. Formal proposal: leave this alone. -1. Simply by having it in the repository, the statement implicitly has the support of the Python

[Python-Dev] Re: Recent PEP-8 change (Antoine Pitrou)

On 03.07.2020 15:01, Henk-Jaap Wagenaar wrote: On Fri, 3 Jul 2020 at 08:50, Ivan Pozdeev via Python-Dev mailto:python-dev@python.org>> wrote: Per https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/KQSHT5RZPPUBBIALMANFTXCMIBGSIR5Z/, we're talking about an infinitely

[Python-Dev] Re: Recent PEP-8 change (Antoine Pitrou)

On Fri, 3 Jul 2020 at 08:50, Ivan Pozdeev via Python-Dev < python-dev@python.org> wrote: > > Per > https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/KQSHT5RZPPUBBIALMANFTXCMIBGSIR5Z/, > we're talking about an infinitely > less impactful peps repo (per >

[Python-Dev] Re: Stable ABI question.

03.07.20 12:34, Victor Stinner пише: PyEval_ReleaseLock() is deprecated since Python 3.2 in the documentation: https://docs.python.org/dev/c-api/init.html#c.PyEval_ReleaseLock PyEval_AcquireLock() was annotated with Py_DEPRECATED() by Serhiy Storchaka in

[Python-Dev] Re: Recent PEP-8 change

On 3/07/20 5:09 am, David Mertz wrote: "they" has long been used in that "indeterminate-not-inanimate" way since 14th century (different from "it").  "He" has often been used that as well, but really with the implication that a generic person is male. Maybe the indeterminate use of "he" was

[Python-Dev] Re: Stable ABI question.

PyEval_ReleaseLock() is deprecated since Python 3.2 in the documentation: https://docs.python.org/dev/c-api/init.html#c.PyEval_ReleaseLock PyEval_AcquireLock() was annotated with Py_DEPRECATED() by Serhiy Storchaka in https://bugs.python.org/issue19569#msg280110 where he wrote:

[Python-Dev] Re: Stable ABI question.

Le ven. 3 juil. 2020 à 11:19, Victor Stinner a écrit : > Le ven. 3 juil. 2020 à 04:51, Inada Naoki a écrit : > > Actually, PyEval_ReleaseLock is used in three packages: > > > > pydevd-pycharm-202.5103.19/pydevd_attach_to_process/windows/attach.cpp > > 330:DEFINE_PROC(releaseLock,

[Python-Dev] Re: Stable ABI question.

On Fri, Jul 3, 2020 at 6:23 PM Victor Stinner wrote: > > > So it seems possible to fix JEP and pydevd-pycharm. IMHO it's fine to > remove PyEval_ReleaseLock() in Python 3.10. The deprecation warning is > there since Python 3.2. > While PyEval_AcquireLock is deprecated, PyEval_ReleaseLock is not

[Python-Dev] Re: Stable ABI question.

Le ven. 3 juil. 2020 à 04:51, Inada Naoki a écrit : > Actually, PyEval_ReleaseLock is used in three packages: > > pydevd-pycharm-202.5103.19/pydevd_attach_to_process/windows/attach.cpp > 330:DEFINE_PROC(releaseLock, PyEval_Lock*, "PyEval_ReleaseLock", > -160); > >

[Python-Dev] Re: Recent PEP-8 change (Antoine Pitrou)

On 03.07.2020 3:10, Łukasz Langa wrote: On 2 Jul 2020, at 21:38, Chris Angelico wrote: Formal proposal: Either request a new commit message from the original author, or have someone rewrite it, and we go ahead and make the change. -1 This would be serious precedent to fiddling with publicly

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 622 (match statement) playground

+1 Is there a reason, after all, why we should mark constant patterns as special, and not the opposite? On 02/07/2020 19:10, Walter Dörwald wrote: On 1 Jul 2020, at 18:54, Brandt Bucher wrote: Walter Dörwald wrote: This looks strange to me. In all other cases of variable lookup the

[Python-Dev] Re: Recent PEP-8 change

On 3/07/20 5:37 am, Rhodri James wrote: It was in Latin classes that I learned how sentences are put together, and that's what I default to when I'm not thinking hard enough. For me it's French -- I learned much more about English grammar while studying French than I ever did from English

[Python-Dev] Re: Re Re: Recent PEP-8 change (Ivan Pozdeev)

On Thu, 2 Jul 2020 at 21:18, David Antonini wrote: > > No contention to the contrary, but as a routine, post-merge git history > rewrite, not a grand plan, from what I understand. David, When you post, you (or more likely your mail program) somehow adds the name of the author of the post that