cussion entirely
> by email, without having to visit the web site?
>
It should be possible to fully interact with Discourse from an email client,
Mozilla has some nice guidance on this:
https://discourse.mozilla.org/t/how-do-i-use-discourse-via-email/15279
> If not, then if python-dev become
xt
month's key component in a mission-critical software stack :-(
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t as hard as
designing match/case or except* statements.
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On 8/04/22 12:13 pm, Gregory P. Smith wrote:
And
for lurkers and subscribers here to enable email notifications for
categories of interest over there.
Is it possible to participate in a Discourse discussion entirely
by email, without having to visit the web site?
If not, then if python-dev
iscussion is better suited to the python-ideas mailing
list, or the Discourse thread I linked earlier.
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o anything differently if the module
isn't really going to be used at that point.
Cheers,
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a bad thing in (general) scripts is arguing
against decades of history and experience. If there's a reason why
*your specific context* would benefit from an abbreviated form, you
need to present it. But arguing that explicit imports are too verbose
for all cases of scripting isn't going to fly,
rs purely based on what follows them.
Perhaps `some_regex = re::compile(r"...")` could work.
That is, :: to delineate the import.
@breakfast.ham::spam
def eggs(): pass
Cheers
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ssions would be usable in
some contexts and not others purely based on what follows them.
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ner, which becomes a four-liner:
import datetime
default_args = {
"start_date": datetime.datetime(...)
}
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htt
ists and seems to be a better API
("more stable")?
I don't know. But it's for a different discussion.
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On 08. 04. 22 1:26, Ethan Furman wrote:
On 4/7/22 07:31, Petr Viktorin wrote:
On 07. 04. 22 15:59, Victor Stinner wrote:
Would it be possible to announce new PEPs on python-dev please?
Currently, all PEPs should be announced on python-dev, but not
necessarily right after they're published
al complete script
will have lots of such imports.
The point is that in a scripting situation (especially one in which
you have many small scripts) the
top-level import requirement for simple imports like `datetime`
becomes rather verbose.
Thanks
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n a month.
Still, I just found out that it was edited twice in between. How am I
supposed to know?
Just as a data point,
Baptiste
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r would this *actually* just expand to
from datetime import datetime
default_args = {
"start_date": datetime(...)
}
I'm not suggesting that there isn't a genuine benefit here, but your
example doesn't demonstrate what it is.
Paul
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lso work), and
then you retain full control of exactly where the importing happens.
ChrisA
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rhaps for
some users and for some programs).
Thoughts?
Cheers
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t; python-committers mailing list -- python-committ...@python.org
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pment
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typo
fixes and the like by posting any that change title, number, or
status, and from the rest exclude any commits that change less than a
dozen lines or something like that. Or perhaps PEP committers could
be asked to include some kind of tag like "#trivial" to distinguish
them.
Steve
_____
view as well as offering markdown
> text and code rendering. Ideal for PEP discussions. Many of us expect
> python-dev to wind up obsoleted by Discourse as a result. I encourage
> everyone to use https://discuss.python.org/ first for Dev audience
> communications. And for lurkers and su
on and thread management point of view as well as offering markdown
text and code rendering. Ideal for PEP discussions. Many of us expect
python-dev to wind up obsoleted by Discourse as a result. I encourage
everyone to use https://discuss.python.org/ first for Dev audience
communications. And for lurk
On 4/7/22 07:31, Petr Viktorin wrote:
On 07. 04. 22 15:59, Victor Stinner wrote:
Would it be possible to announce new PEPs on python-dev please?
Currently, all PEPs should be announced on python-dev, but not necessarily right after they're published. They should be
announced before
Le 07/04/2022 à 15:59, Victor Stinner a écrit :
Hi,
Would it be possible to announce new PEPs on python-dev please?
I don't go often to Discourse, like once a month. I don't get any
notification by email. I expected new PEPs to be announced on
python-dev, but they are not announced here
be a better API
("more stable")?
Victor
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On 07. 04. 22 15:59, Victor Stinner wrote:
Hi,
Would it be possible to announce new PEPs on python-dev please?
Currently, all PEPs should be announced on python-dev, but not
necessarily right after they're published. They should be announced
before submitting them to SC, though.
I don't
Hi,
Would it be possible to announce new PEPs on python-dev please?
I don't go often to Discourse, like once a month. I don't get any
notification by email. I expected new PEPs to be announced on
python-dev, but they are not announced here anymore. Is it possible to
get Discourse notifications
on 3.13.
It's easier to approve or reject a PEP if all changes target the same
Python version. I'm not sure that (a) changes require a PEP, they are
mostly bugfixes and uncontroversial enhancements.
Victor
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> Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
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_
l performance without the risk of API compatibility
breaks in maintenance releases.
Without defining this tier, effectively the *entire* internal API
becomes semi-stable, as any changes made will risk breaking the third
party projects that we've told to define Py_BUILD_CORE when compiling.
Cheers,
N
python.org/issue47000
https://github.com/python/cpython/pull/32068
Regards,
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tion" as many
> physicist do is known to be one of the easier ways to annoy mathematicians
> :)
>
> # We hope you enjoy those new releases!
>
> Thanks to all of the many volunteers who help make Python Development and
> these releases possible! Please consider supporting our
ke Cython, as it means they can
get core level performance without the risk of API compatibility breaks in
maintenance releases.
Without defining this tier, effectively the *entire* internal API becomes
semi-stable, as any changes made will risk breaking the third party
projects that we've
I will consider adding it, but I am not sure it qualifies as a "major
feature". I will think about it :)
On Wed, 6 Apr 2022 at 13:38, Jeremiah Vivian
wrote:
> > Can you provide a bpo number, please?
> bpo-433030
> _______
>
> Can you provide a bpo number, please?
bpo-433030
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ing.
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d any backtracking.
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and collaboration :)
Kind regards from rainy London,
Your friendly release team
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impacts "pydevd"
users. Fabio who works on that project said that he was fine with
that change ("I'm ok with changes"):
https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/XPDT55ANVKHGG74D62HDBOFLC4EXWJ26/
"I'm okay with" isn't really a sign of suppo
y mathematicians
> :)
>
> # We hope you enjoy those new releases!
>
> Thanks to all of the many volunteers who help make Python Development and
> these releases possible! Please consider supporting our efforts by
> volunteering yourself or through organization contributions to the Pyth
ion.
Your friendly release team,
Pablo Galindo @pablogsal
Ned Deily @nad
Steve Dower @steve.dower
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that. Exposed structures
should not be used for any runtime objects, only as specs for construction of
those runtime objects.
Best,
Tim
From: Victor Stinner<mailto:vstin...@python.org>
Sent: Tuesday, April 5, 2022 10:54 PM
To: Petr Viktorin<mailto:encu...@gmail.com>
Cc: Python Dev<ma
ion
operators are redundant in the second example, and without them (thanks to
the parentheses) the literals will be concatenated at compile time. I often
use
(code of some sort)'''\
SELECT foo
FROM bar
WHERE baz = %s"""
to ensure the multiline string literal is correctly aligned, making
ind
Hi,
Steve, Petr: sorry if you feel that I didn't take your feedback in
account, it's not case. Thanks for your valuable feedback. It seems
like there was some misunderstanding.
On Tue, Apr 5, 2022 at 2:49 AM Gregory P. Smith wrote:
> Thanks for bringing this up on python-dev, Vic
hon API) should be moved to the internal C API, likely with a
deprecation period. Cython should not use it but a new stable API.
Victor
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o cover the fact that dicts are
now ordered)
-CHB
>
> Victor
> _______________
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out this.
PEP 257 recommends that all docstrings be triple quoted, not that all
triple quoted strings be docstrings. There is a difference!
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; IMO PEP 523 doesn't have to be updated since it already says that the
> APIs are private.
>
Thanks for bringing this up on python-dev, Victor. That was good. But the
point of the discussion should've been to continue working with people
based on the replies rather than proceeding to merge remova
uld have been
a new thread.
But, hey, we all make mistakes sometimes. :-)
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e accepted usage.
So I thank the community for that input and will refrain from
commenting further on this.
Best,
coyot
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along with code paths. And that in turn requires
revision of external code deeply integrated with the core. I think it
worth making it clear that the resulting pain is needed for something
that benefits most Python users.
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Terry Jan Reedy
_____________
trings...
> > >Paul
> >
> > That isn't my reading of PEP 257, I would be happy to be wrong about
> this.
>
> PEP 257 says that all docstrings should use triple quotes. It doesn't
> say that *only* docstrings should use triple quotes.
>
>
> --
> S
py to be wrong about this.
PEP 257 says that all docstrings should use triple quotes. It doesn't
say that *only* docstrings should use triple quotes.
--
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_
fc.co_consts
# ('docstring', None) # 'other string' absent.
import dis
dis.dis(f) # 'other string not loaded from anywhere else.
# 1 0 RESUME 0
#
# 3 2 LOAD_CONST 1 (None)
# 4 RETURN_VALUE
--
Terry Jan Reedy
___
;"? Triple quoted strings are
not exclusively for docstrings...
Paul
That isn't my reading of PEP 257, I would be happy to be wrong about this.
Best,
coyot
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strings are
not exclusively for docstrings...
Paul
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I would welcome a multiline comment format that didn't involve docstrings.
Err, sorry, I meant multiline string format.
Best,
coyot
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Please comment (here or there) as appropriate :)
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statements wind up in the parse tree
and that's not optimal, but the suboptimality there is less for us than
the suboptimality of the second form above.
I would welcome a multiline comment format that didn't involve docstrings.
Best,
coyot
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icitly
call out that _Py-prefixed APIs are internal and should not be used by
extensions,
this isn't the case in practice, so introducing the 3-tier concept could be
an opportunity
to clean up this situation a bit.
What exactly should be the naming conventions per tier, and the names of
the tiers,
is bi
ot; as potential
> terminology here, since the internal API is already unstable - we're
> splitting the difference between that and the long term stability of the
> full public API)
>
> Cheers,
> Nick.
>
>
>
>> Victor
>> _______
>> Python-D
m/python/cpython/pull/32128>) continue to use the
default behavior (descriptions enabled) but will also allow for docstrings in
its own tests.
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previously, it already existed but it was somehow hidden:
type(int.__dict__)).
Victor
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://bugs.python.org/issue43838
For a lot of use cases, MappingProxyType is already a "good enough"
immutable dict, but it does have a definite discoverability problem.
Cheers,
Nick.
>
>
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To u
ifference between that and the long term stability of the
full public API)
Cheers,
Nick.
> Victor
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s to collections? I guess it will
need at least a short PEP to justify that there are use-cases for frozen
mappings.
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to take up the mantle of getting an
immutable Mapping into the stdlib.
-CHB
--
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Python Language Consulting
- Teaching
- Scientific Software Development
- Desktop GUI and Web Development
- wxPython, numpy, scipy, Cython
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you need
it, but it's one that deserves to be researched and understood before
simply dropping it into your code. An optional package is a perfectly
good place for it.
Cheers,
Steve
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ould presumably need to be be a C API as well, and that would
probably expose more of the implementation unless handled carefully.
Without seeing an actual implementation, it's hard to know for sure.
Paul
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Python, numpy, scipy, Cython
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g()
>> > > ---
>> > >
>> > > Output with Python 3.10 (ok):
>> > > ---
>> > > raise
>> > > except
>> > > exit func
>> > > ---
>> > >
>> >
put with Python 3.10 (ok):
> > > ---
> > > raise
> > > except
> > > exit func
> > > ---
> > >
> > > Output with Python 3.11 (oops):
> > > ---
> > > raise
> > > Traceback (
issue47180 closed by rhettinger
#47183: Cant compile html docs
https://bugs.python.org/issue47183 closed by zach.ware
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l>
>
> I understand that these changes come from the "Zero cost exception
> handling" change:
> https://bugs.python.org/issue40222 <https://bugs.python.org/issue40222>
>
> Victor
> --
> Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until m
.py#L398
>
Yes, that constructor is not considered stable.
--
--Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
*Pronouns: he/him **(why is my pronoun here?)*
<http://feministing.com/2015/02/03/how-using-they-as-a-singular-pronoun-can-change-the-world/>
_______
th Python 3.11 (oops):
> > ---
> > raise
> > Traceback (most recent call last):
> > ...
> > ValueError
> > ---
> >
> > By the way, this change is not documented at all:
> >
> > * https://docs.python.org/dev/library/types.html#types.Cod
ernal C API.
Victor
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r discussions are about finding
> this balance ;)
>
> Cheers,
> Steve
>
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Mess
3.11,even if
these APIs are private.
Victor
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from it I believe.
>>
>> Here is a talk given by the author of javascript immutable-js library
>> explain why immutable data structures are powerful:
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7IdS-PbEgI
>>
>> Pyristent: https://github.com/tobgu/pyrsistent
>>
>> W
outside perspective on this potential change.)
Cheers,
Steve
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ript immutable-js library
> explain why immutable data structures are powerful:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7IdS-PbEgI
>
> Pyristent: https://github.com/tobgu/pyrsistent
>
> What do you think?
>
> Cheers,
> Kai
> ___
> Py
m it I believe.
>
> Here is a talk given by the author of javascript immutable-js library explain
> why immutable data structures are powerful:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7IdS-PbEgI
>
> Pyristent: https://github.com/tobgu/pyrsistent
>
> What do you think?
>
> C
---
> raise
> Traceback (most recent call last):
> ...
> ValueError
> ---
>
> By the way, this change is not documented at all:
>
> * https://docs.python.org/dev/library/types.html#types.CodeType
> * https://docs.python.org/dev/whatsnew/3.11.html
>
> I understand th
Pyristent: https://github.com/tobgu/pyrsistent
What do you think?
Cheers,
Kai
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w/3.11.html
I understand that these changes come from the "Zero cost exception
handling" change:
https://bugs.python.org/issue40222
Victor
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; Porting to Python 3.11,even if
these APIs are private.
Victor
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replace(). It's the easiest way to
ensure that all the little details are correct.
ChrisA
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o be used (need to
define a macro, need more specific #include) in the hope that people
will think twice before using it :-)
Victor
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h
/dev/c-api/frame.html
* https://github.com/faster-cpython/ideas/issues/309
* https://bugs.python.org/issue40421
Victor
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. I’m a fan of a batteries included
stdlib, but with our current resources we cannot afford to have some bits in
the stdlib that would “obviously” be a candidate for a modern batteries
included stdlib, such as a decent HTTP stack with support for HTTP/1, /2 and
/3.
Ronald
—
Twitter / mi
n bpo-46906 (1) and it broke a few projects.
Victor
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Tools/scripts/generate_opcode_h.py
Tools/scripts/ptags.py
Tools/scripts/win_add2path.py
Tools/ssl/multissltests.py
Tools/unicode/Makefile
Tools/unicode/makeunicodedata.py
abc_bench.py
aclocal.m4
configure
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Jeremy Kloth
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reference to particular tools.
>>
>> -CHB
>>
>>
>> --
>> Christopher Barker, PhD (Chris)
>>
>> Python Language Consulting
>> - Teaching
>> - Scientific Software Development
>> - Desktop GUI and Web Development
>>
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