Re: [Python-Dev] typeshed for 3rd party packages

2015-04-24 Thread Steven D'Aprano
On Wed, Apr 22, 2015 at 11:26:14AM -0500, Ian Cordasco wrote: On a separate thread Cory provided an example of what the hints would look like for *part* of one function in the requests public functional API. While our API is outwardly simple, the values we accept in certain cases are actually

Re: [Python-Dev] typeshed for 3rd party packages

2015-04-24 Thread Steven D'Aprano
On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 03:44:45PM +0100, Cory Benfield wrote: On 24 April 2015 at 15:21, Steven D'Aprano st...@pearwood.info wrote: If the type hints are wrong, there are two errors: false positives, when code which should be allowed is flagged as a type error; and false negatives, when

Re: [Python-Dev] typeshed for 3rd party packages

2015-04-24 Thread Cory Benfield
On 24 April 2015 at 15:21, Steven D'Aprano st...@pearwood.info wrote: If the type hints are wrong, there are two errors: false positives, when code which should be allowed is flagged as a type error; and false negatives, when code which should be flagged as an error is not. Ideally, there

Re: [Python-Dev] typeshed for 3rd party packages

2015-04-22 Thread Skip Montanaro
On Wed, Apr 22, 2015 at 10:43 AM, Guido van Rossum gu...@python.org wrote: For Requests, it looks like it may be better not to have stubs at all. Can you expand on this? Why would Requests be any different than any other module/package? As for versioning, I think stub files would absolutely

Re: [Python-Dev] typeshed for 3rd party packages

2015-04-22 Thread Ian Cordasco
On Wed, Apr 22, 2015 at 11:12 AM, Skip Montanaro skip.montan...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Apr 22, 2015 at 10:43 AM, Guido van Rossum gu...@python.org wrote: For Requests, it looks like it may be better not to have stubs at all. Can you expand on this? Why would Requests be any different

Re: [Python-Dev] typeshed for 3rd party packages

2015-04-22 Thread Ian Cordasco
On Wed, Apr 22, 2015 at 11:30 AM, Skip Montanaro skip.montan...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Apr 22, 2015 at 11:26 AM, Ian Cordasco graffatcolmin...@gmail.com wrote: On a separate thread Cory provided an example of what the hints would look like for *part* of one function in the requests

Re: [Python-Dev] typeshed for 3rd party packages

2015-04-22 Thread Guido van Rossum
I definitely think that we shouldn't jump the gun here and tread carefully. Both Marc-André and Cory brought up good things to watch out for. For closed-source software the only way to obtain stubs is presumably from the author, if they care. As Gregory Smith said in another thread, the tooling

Re: [Python-Dev] typeshed for 3rd party packages

2015-04-22 Thread Guido van Rossum
On Wed, Apr 22, 2015 at 9:12 AM, Skip Montanaro skip.montan...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Apr 22, 2015 at 10:43 AM, Guido van Rossum gu...@python.org wrote: For Requests, it looks like it may be better not to have stubs at all. Can you expand on this? Why would Requests be any different

Re: [Python-Dev] typeshed for 3rd party packages

2015-04-22 Thread Guido van Rossum
On Wed, Apr 22, 2015 at 9:26 AM, Ian Cordasco graffatcolmin...@gmail.com wrote: As the other maintainer of requests, I think having hints *might* help some developers, but looking at what Cory generated (which looks to be valid), I'm wondering about something else with Type Hints. I've heard

Re: [Python-Dev] typeshed for 3rd party packages

2015-04-22 Thread M.-A. Lemburg
On 21.04.2015 18:08, Guido van Rossum wrote: On Tue, Apr 21, 2015 at 12:33 AM, M.-A. Lemburg m...@egenix.com wrote: On 21.04.2015 05:37, Guido van Rossum wrote: On Mon, Apr 20, 2015 at 4:41 PM, Jack Diederich jackd...@gmail.com wrote: * Uploading stubs for other people's code is a terrible

Re: [Python-Dev] typeshed for 3rd party packages

2015-04-22 Thread Cory Benfield
On 22 April 2015 at 11:46, M.-A. Lemburg m...@egenix.com wrote: Unlike with translations, where missing or poor ones don't have much effect on the usefulness of the software, a type checker would complain loudly and probably show lots of false positives (if you read a type bug as positive),

Re: [Python-Dev] typeshed for 3rd party packages (was: Type hints -- a mediocre programmer's reaction)

2015-04-21 Thread M.-A. Lemburg
On 21.04.2015 05:37, Guido van Rossum wrote: On Mon, Apr 20, 2015 at 4:41 PM, Jack Diederich jackd...@gmail.com wrote: * Uploading stubs for other people's code is a terrible idea. Who do I contact when I update the interface to my library? The random Joe who helped by uploading annotations

Re: [Python-Dev] typeshed for 3rd party packages (was: Type hints -- a mediocre programmer's reaction)

2015-04-21 Thread Guido van Rossum
On Tue, Apr 21, 2015 at 12:33 AM, M.-A. Lemburg m...@egenix.com wrote: On 21.04.2015 05:37, Guido van Rossum wrote: On Mon, Apr 20, 2015 at 4:41 PM, Jack Diederich jackd...@gmail.com wrote: * Uploading stubs for other people's code is a terrible idea. Who do I contact when I update the