Re: [Python-ideas] discontinue iterable strings

On 22 August 2016 at 19:47, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: > Nick Coghlan writes: > > > However, the real problem with this proposal (and the reason why the > > switch from 8-bit str to "bytes are effectively a tuple of ints" in > > Python 3 was such a pain),

Re: [Python-ideas] discontinue iterable strings

Nick Coghlan writes: > However, the real problem with this proposal (and the reason why the > switch from 8-bit str to "bytes are effectively a tuple of ints" in > Python 3 was such a pain), is that there are a lot of bytes and text > processing operations that *really do* operate code point

Re: [Python-ideas] discontinue iterable strings

On Sun, Aug 21, 2016 at 6:08 PM, wrote: > > from __future__ import unicode_literals outright changes the type of object > string literals make (in python 2). If you were to create a non-iterable, > non-sequence text type (a horrible idea, IMO) the same thing can be

Re: [Python-ideas] discontinue iterable strings

On 21.08.2016 04:52, Steven D'Aprano wrote: Saying that these so-called "fixes" (we haven't established yet that Python's string behaviour is a bug that need fixing) will be easier and more obvious than the change to Unicode is not that bold a claim. Agreed. Especially those "we need to

Re: [Python-ideas] discontinue iterable strings

From: Python-ideas [mailto:python-ideas-bounces+tritium-list=sdamon@python.org] On Behalf Of ? Sent: Saturday, August 20, 2016 5:56 PM To: python-ideas <python-ideas@python.org> Subject: Re: [Python-ideas] discontinue iterable strings On Sun, Aug 21, 2016 at 12:28 AM Alexander

Re: [Python-ideas] discontinue iterable strings

On Sun, Aug 21, 2016 at 2:46 AM eryk sun wrote: > On Sun, Aug 21, 2016 at 6:34 AM, Michael Selik > wrote: > > The detection of not hashable via __hash__ set to None was necessary, but > > not desirable. Better to have never defined the

Re: [Python-ideas] discontinue iterable strings

On Sun, Aug 21, 2016 at 6:34 AM, Michael Selik wrote: > The detection of not hashable via __hash__ set to None was necessary, but > not desirable. Better to have never defined the method/attribute in the > first place. Since __iter__ isn't present on ``object``, we're

Re: [Python-ideas] discontinue iterable strings

On Sun, Aug 21, 2016 at 1:27 AM Chris Angelico wrote: > Hmm. It would somehow need to be recognized as "not iterable". I'm not > sure how this detection is done; is it based on the presence/absence > of __iter__, or is it by calling that method and seeing what comes > back? If

Re: [Python-ideas] discontinue iterable strings

On 21 August 2016 at 16:02, eryk sun wrote: > On Sun, Aug 21, 2016 at 5:27 AM, Chris Angelico wrote: >> Hmm. It would somehow need to be recognized as "not iterable". I'm not >> sure how this detection is done; is it based on the presence/absence >> of

Re: [Python-ideas] discontinue iterable strings

On Sun, Aug 21, 2016 at 5:27 AM, Chris Angelico wrote: > Hmm. It would somehow need to be recognized as "not iterable". I'm not > sure how this detection is done; is it based on the presence/absence > of __iter__, or is it by calling that method and seeing what comes > back? If

Re: [Python-ideas] discontinue iterable strings

On 21 August 2016 at 15:22, Nick Coghlan wrote: > There may also be a case to be made for introducing an AtomicStr type > into Python's data model that works like a normal string, but > *doesn't* support indexing, slicing, or iteration, and is instead an > opaque blob of data

Re: [Python-ideas] discontinue iterable strings

On Sun, Aug 21, 2016 at 12:52 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote: >> > The fixes overall will be a lot easier and obvious than introduction of >> > unicode as default string type in Python 3.0. >> >> That's a bold claim. Have you considered what's at stake if that's not true? > >

Re: [Python-ideas] discontinue iterable strings

On Sun, Aug 21, 2016 at 12:28 AM Alexander Heger wrote: > Did I leave anything out? >> How would you weigh the benefits against the problems? >> How would you manage the upgrade path for code that's been broken? >> > > FIrst one needs to add the extension string attributes like >

Re: [Python-ideas] discontinue iterable strings

> > So you can't lose iteration without also losing subscripting. >>> >> >> Python here does a lot of things implicitly. I always felt the >> (explicit) index operator in strings in many other languages sort of is >> syntactic sugar, in python it was taken to do literally the same things as >> on

Re: [Python-ideas] discontinue iterable strings

On Sat, Aug 20, 2016 at 4:57 PM Alexander Heger wrote: > So you can't lose iteration without also losing subscripting. >> > > Python here does a lot of things implicitly. I always felt the (explicit) > index operator in strings in many other languages sort of is syntactic >

Re: [Python-ideas] discontinue iterable strings

On Sat, Aug 20, 2016 at 3:48 AM Chris Angelico wrote: > On Sat, Aug 20, 2016 at 4:28 PM, Alexander Heger wrote: > > Yes, I am aware it will cause a lot of backward incompatibilities... > > Tell me, would you retain the ability to subscript a string to get its >

Re: [Python-ideas] discontinue iterable strings

On Sat, Aug 20, 2016 at 4:28 PM, Alexander Heger wrote: > Yes, I am aware it will cause a lot of backward incompatibilities... Tell me, would you retain the ability to subscript a string to get its characters? >>> "asdf"[0] 'a' If not, you break a ton of code. If you do, they

Re: [Python-ideas] discontinue iterable strings

On Aug 20, 2016 2:27 AM, "Alexander Heger" wrote: > The point is it does not try to disassemble it into elements as it would do with other iterables > > >>> np.array([1,2,3]) > array([1, 2, 3]) > >>> np.array([1,2,3]).shape > (3,) It isn't so much that strings are special, it's

Re: [Python-ideas] discontinue iterable strings

> > > That says, "This is a 0-length array of 3-char Unicode strings." Numpy > > doesn't recognize the string as a specification of an array. Try > > `np.array(4.)` and you'll get (IIRC) `array(4., dtype='float')`, which > > has > > shape `()`. Numpy probably won't let you index either one. What

Re: [Python-ideas] discontinue iterable strings

This would introduce a major inconsistency. To do this, you would need to also strip string’s of their status as sequences (in collections.abc, Sequence is a subclass of Iterable). Thus, making string’s no longer iterable would also mean you could no longer take the length or slice of a string.

Re: [Python-ideas] discontinue iterable strings

On 20 August 2016 at 15:47, Franklin? Lee wrote: On Aug 19, 2016 11:14 PM, "Alexander Heger" wrote: > > standard python should discontinue to see strings as iterables of characters - length-1 strings. I see this as one of the biggest design flaws

Re: [Python-ideas] discontinue iterable strings

On Sat, Aug 20, 2016, at 01:47, Franklin? Lee wrote: > That says, "This is a 0-length array of 3-char Unicode strings." Numpy > doesn't recognize the string as a specification of an array. Try > `np.array(4.)` and you'll get (IIRC) `array(4., dtype='float')`, which > has > shape `()`. Numpy

Re: [Python-ideas] discontinue iterable strings

On Fri, Aug 19, 2016, at 23:13, Alexander Heger wrote: > Numpy was of course design a lot later, with more experience in practical > use (in mind). The meaning of np.array('abc') is a bit baffling to someone with no experience in numpy. It doesn't seem to be a one-dimensional array containing