this need clearly a few times.) I
can't comment on the exact semantics or implementation (though I'd prefer
it if it didn't have to run a subprocess).
IDLE should probably monkey-patch this so it does something reasonable in
its shell window.
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dout/stdin.
>
> On Mon, Dec 28, 2020 at 12:50 PM Guido van Rossum
> wrote:
>
>> The asyncio module already has a subprocess support: Subprocesses —
>> Python 3.9.1 documentation
>> <https://docs.python.org/3/library/asyncio-subprocess.html>
>>
>> Was
nces to be differentiably using dunders only. But it's about 31
years too late for that. And looking at the mess JavaScript made of this
(sequences are mappings with string keys "0", "1" and so on), I'm pretty
happy with how Python did this.
--
--Guido van Rossum (python.
? Then you
> will probably prefer `obj.__dict__` over `vars(obj)` too :-)
>
Not a valid analogy.
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On Mon, Dec 28, 2020 at 11:36 PM Christopher Barker
wrote:
> On Mon, Dec 28, 2020 at 12:33 PM Guido van Rossum
> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, Dec 28, 2020 at 12:15 PM Christopher Barker
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Though frankly, I would rather have had it use .items() -- see
On Wed, Dec 30, 2020 at 5:01 PM Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Tue, Dec 29, 2020 at 09:02:10AM -0800, Guido van Rossum wrote:
> > On Tue, Dec 29, 2020 at 8:11 AM Steven D'Aprano
> wrote:
>
> > To the contrary, vars() is something I added to the language for the
>
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I have definitely seen BOMs written by Notepad on Windows 10.
Why can’t the future be that open() in text mode guesses the encoding?
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thon but good at SEO).
I would be very sad if the official recommendation had to become "[for the
most common case] avoid open(filename), use open_text(filename)".
BTW remind me what open_text() would do? How would it differ from open()
with the same arguments? That's too many messa
On Mon, Jan 25, 2021 at 5:49 PM Inada Naoki wrote:
> On Tue, Jan 26, 2021 at 10:22 AM Guido van Rossum
> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Older Pythons may be easy to drop, but I'm not so sure about older
> unofficial docs. The open() function is very popular and there must
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nk it's fine the way you have implemented it -- since there
is a difference between a[1] and a[1,], a[*t] where len(t) == 1 has to make
a choice, and it's fine if this always passes a tuple.
> > 2. Does PEP 637 allow a positional argument after a `*`?
> >- e.g., Generi
Although a file adds I/O slowdown to startup (which is already slow) while
an envvar doesn’t.
On Thu, Feb 4, 2021 at 13:19 Barry Scott wrote:
>
>
> > On 3 Feb 2021, at 02:49, Christopher Barker wrote:
> >
>
>
> Rather than reply point by point I will summarise my input.
>
> I think that utf-8 m
The proposal is to add a default event loop that is always active.
On Sat, Feb 6, 2021 at 06:41 wrote:
> I mean to be able to do something like this:
> ```python
> import asyncio
>
> await asyncio.sleep(1);
> ```
> --
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gt;
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This was intentional in PEP 572 so it is not a grammar bug fix.
Put your money where your mouth is, or become another armchair language
designer. Your choice.
On Sun, Feb 7, 2021 at 23:58 Paul Sokolovsky wrote:
> Hello,
>
> On Sun, 7 Feb 2021 13:10:55 -0800
> Guido van Rossum wro
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*Pro
y be worth looking at what it would take to allow asynchronous
> lambdas. Syntactically, while "any lambda containing await" is tempting,
> the lack of static typing means that we need a way to specify async lambdas
> that do not contain await. Javascript prefixes the argument list wi
ther idea in how to prevent name binding due to partial matching from
> happening? Any previous discussions on this?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Abdulla
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I should add that I accidentally left out a word. It should be “... liable
to *overwrite* any or all names ...”
On Sun, Feb 14, 2021 at 12:10 Abdulla Al Kathiri <
alkathiri.abdu...@gmail.com> wrote:
> That makes sense. As Guido mentioned, this is similar to reusing a
> variable in a for-loop. You
Okay, here’s my dilemma. It looks like this thread wants to devise a new
syntax for lambda, using e.g. (x, y) -> x+y, or the same with =>. That’s
great, but doesn’t open new vistas.
OTOH, for people using type annotations, a much more pressing issue is an
alternative for typing.Callable that is mo
'
> >>> f(1,2) # type hint error
>
Another thing. Type hints are not interpreted at runtime, and I don't
expect this to change in the near to middle future.
Plus, that syntax really has nothing to recommend it.
--
--Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
*Pronouns: he
Also, code that is expecting an int should not behave differently when it
receives a bool.
On Mon, Feb 22, 2021 at 17:47 Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Tue, Feb 23, 2021 at 12:14 PM Soni L. wrote:
> >
> > Currently ~False is -1 and ~True is -2. Would be nicer if ~bool was the
> > same as not bool.
27;t promise to review it though.
:-)
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Can we skip ahead to considering how to implement this? I can think of two
approaches: either hack the lexer to special-case a newline followed by a
period (which currently can never start a line), or redesign the syntax to
allow NEWLINE INDENT ‘.’ . NEWLINE ‘.’ DEDENT at the
e
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> 2) add a recipe to the docs
>
But what would the recipe say? Apparently you're looking for a one-liner,
since you reject the try/except solution.
> 3) do nothing
>
Always a good option. :-) Where's that StackOverflow item? How many upvotes
does it have?
--
--Gui
x = 1
> y = 2
> export y
>
> # __all__ == ["y"]
>
>
> # Big Caveat
>
> For this scheme to work, __all__ needs to not be auto-populated with names.
> While the behavior is possibly suprising, I think the best way to handle
> t
On Fri, Mar 12, 2021 at 6:23 PM Peter Ludemann
wrote:
> [I wonder why C didn't adopt BCPL's convention for eliding semi-colons?
> ...]
>
[Presumably because it caused too many surprising behaviors...]
--
--Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
*Pronouns: he/him **(why
wrap
`Y` in another proxy, and then it becomes awkward, e.g. if `Y` is supposed
to represent a simple number or string -- we don't want any other part of
the language or stdlib to need to become aware of such proxies.)
Long answer short, yes, we can make it so that `the_module.sys` in your
hat they implement their own
restrictive access controls (without resorting to writing C code).
On Sun, Mar 14, 2021 at 12:42 PM Stestagg wrote:
> On Sun, 14 Mar 2021 at 18:58, Guido van Rossum wrote:
>
>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2021 at 7:11 AM Theia Vogel wrote:
>>
>>> >
n, Mar 14, 2021 at 8:22 PM Guido van Rossum wrote:
>
>> If you feel so strongly about it maybe we need to see some credentials.
>> What's your background? (This may sound like an odd request, but reputation
>> matters, and right now I have no idea who you are or why I sho
On Mon, Mar 15, 2021 at 10:53 AM Ethan Furman wrote:
> On 3/12/21 5:28 PM, Guido van Rossum wrote:
> > On Fri, Mar 12, 2021 at 1:52 PM Ethan Furman wrote:
>
> >> A question that comes up quite a bit on Stackoverflow is how to test
> >> to see if a value will result
+1
On Mon, Mar 15, 2021 at 12:48 PM Ethan Furman wrote:
> On 3/15/21 11:27 AM, Guido van Rossum wrote:
> > On Mon, Mar 15, 2021 at 10:53 AM Ethan Furman wrote:
>
> >> Part of the reason is that there are really two ways to identify an
> >> enum -- by name
gt; field saying what type of __init__ argument it becomes: normal or
> keyword-only. Any of the 3 methods discussed above (kw_only flag to
> @dataclass(), kw_only flag to field(), or the KW_ONLY marker) all have
> the same result: setting the kw_only flag on one or more fields.
>
&g
e` as just `None`, as we desire. And instead
> of being a `__contains__` with unusual semantics coupled with a constructor
> with unusual semantics, it's a pair of class methods that each have fairly
> unsurprising semantics.
>
> ~Matt
>
> On Mon, Mar 15, 2021 at 3:55 PM Gui
e as](
> https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-ideas.python.org/),
> then. Thanks.
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ny = field(kw_only=True)
>
> Which generates:
>
> def __init__(self, a, c, *, b, d):
> Would have __match_args__ equal to ('a', 'c', 'b', 'd'), right? Even
> though the repr would have fields in order a, b, c, d.
>
> Eric
> On 3
Can you file a bug for this on bpo and add Steve Dower to the nosy list?
On Fri, Mar 19, 2021 at 17:04 Dany Lisiansky wrote:
> An odd suggestion/request here, hope it's the right place to discuss it.
>
> So I was trying to install python on the Xbox series S (yup..), so far I
> got the embedded
s
proto-PEP (since it explicitly mentions registers). A version of the
example that exhibits the same questionable behavior would be this:
return create_pipeline()[-1].wait()
Presumably this would not work correctly with the PyQt5 process class.
--
--Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
*Pro
As I wrote, Skip’s Porto+PEP is not proposing to delete locals that are not
used in the rest of the function, only registers. So the voiced concerns
don’t apply.
On Sun, Mar 21, 2021 at 23:59 Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Mon, Mar 22, 2021 at 5:37 PM Ben Rudiak-Gould
> wrote:
> >
> > On Sun, Mar 2
here. So o.m(f()) needs to evaluate o.m (which may have a side
effect if o overrides __getattr__) before it calls f().
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But if there are two proposals with conflicting semantics for the same
syntax that kills both ideas, doesn’t it? Because apparently it’s not clear
what the syntax should mean.
On Fri, Apr 9, 2021 at 00:28 Serhiy Storchaka wrote:
> 08.04.21 17:59, anthony.flury via Python-ideas пише:
> > I was wo
Please. Use. set().
On Sat, Apr 10, 2021 at 02:03 Serhiy Storchaka wrote:
> 09.04.21 19:08, micro codery пише:
> >
> > You can now use `{*()}` as a syntax for empty set.
> >
> > I saw that in the ast module and think it's clever, mainly in a good
> > way. I don't think it is the same as havi
ed symbols is just one avenue to prevent disappointment in the future.
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e of commas and 'as' is different than the proposal here:
import foo.bar as foobar, bar.foo as barfoo
is parsed as
import (foo.bar as foobar), (bar.foo as barfoo)
Similarly,
with something as foo, something_else as bar:
...
is parsed as
with (something as foo), (something_
digits of precision upon printing. This could be easily fixed by starting
an addition with an inexact zero, but this was often non-intuitive and hard
to debug for beginners.
"""
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*Pronouns: he/him **(why is my pronoun here?)*
<http://fem
t; (two/five)
> 0.4
> >>> (two/five).numerator
> Traceback (most recent call last):
> File "", line 1, in
> AttributeError: 'float' object has no attribute 'numerator'
>
This violates a basic property of Python. If 1/2 has a
Oh no, not the vertical bar hack. :-(
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eGenix.com Software, Skills and Services GmbH Pastor-Loeh-Str.48
>> > D-40764 Langenfeld, Germany. CEO Dipl.-Math. Marc-Andre Lemburg
>> >Registered at Amtsgericht Duesseldorf: HRB 46611
>> >https://www.egenix.com/company/c
Andre, did you have an experience where something related to Ellipsis/...
confused you? It is not clear to me what exactly prompted you to single out
Ellipsis (or it’s repr()?)
On Mon, May 31, 2021 at 08:37 André Roberge wrote:
>
>
> On Mon, May 31, 2021 at 12:20 PM MRAB wrote:
>
>> On 2021-05-
PEP 501 is unlikely to be accepted *as is*. But it’s still a good starting
point.
Personally I would look for inspiration towards JavaScript template
literals (
https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/JavaScript/Reference/Template_literals),
combined with f-string-like interpolation.
On Fri,
On Fri, Jun 4, 2021 at 3:08 PM Thomas Güttler
wrote:
>
>
> Am Fr., 4. Juni 2021 um 19:20 Uhr schrieb Guido van Rossum <
> gu...@python.org>:
>
>> PEP 501 is unlikely to be accepted *as is*. But it’s still a good
>> starting point.
>>
>>
> OK, bef
Python). Van Wijngaarden told us, somewhat ruefully, that, had the design
committee known that programmers would be happy to write that empty pair of
parentheses, they would have been able to simplify a significant corner of
Algol-68's type system.
This was one of the seminal ideas that went i
Just trolling along, flattening a list could be written as
functools.reduce(list.__iadd__, xs, [])
Right?
On Wed, Jun 16, 2021 at 22:53 David Mertz wrote:
> On Thu, Jun 17, 2021, 1:38 AM Chris Angelico
>
>> >>> list(chain.from_iterable(list_of_lists))
>>
>> > More-itertools has flatten():
>> h
Wow, strong language. Not really helping people see it your way.
On Thu, Jun 17, 2021 at 14:26 Ben Rudiak-Gould wrote:
> On Thu, Jun 17, 2021 at 12:37 AM Serhiy Storchaka
> wrote:
>
>> And it is equivalent to pure Python code
>>
>> [x for chunk in list_of_lists for x in chunk]
>>
>
> Okay,
On Fri, Jun 18, 2021 at 00:43 Serhiy Storchaka wrote:
> 18.06.21 00:22, Ben Rudiak-Gould пише:
> > Okay, slightly off-topic, but can we *please* allow
> >
> > [*chunk for chunk in list_of_lists]
> >
> > some day. I think it was left out because some discussion concluded it
> > would be too co
On Fri, Jun 18, 2021 at 8:40 PM Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Fri, Jun 18, 2021 at 07:38:49AM -0700, Guido van Rossum wrote:
>
> > Note the ambiguity around whether the user might have meant
> >
> > [x,(y for y in a)]
> >
> > or
> >
> >
On Fri, Jun 18, 2021 at 10:15 PM Steven D'Aprano
wrote:
> On Fri, Jun 18, 2021 at 09:33:49PM -0700, Guido van Rossum wrote:
>
> > Now, this shouldn't be considered an airtight argument against [*chunk
> for
> > ...], but it does show that there's no straightfo
Would a static type checker have found this?
On Fri, Jun 25, 2021 at 02:07 Thomas Grainger wrote:
> I was debugging some code that was using TLSv1.2 when I expected it to
> only support TLSv1.3, I tracked it down to a call to:
>
> context.miunimum_version = ssl.TLSVersion.TLSv1_3
>
> it should h
that could well become a non-trivial change to their code,
depending on where they get their SSLContext instances.)
So unless there's evidence that nobody does that, we're stuck with the
status quo. I'm adding Christian Heimes to the thread in case he has a
hunch either way.
--
--Gu
On Fri, Jun 25, 2021 at 11:42 AM Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Sat, Jun 26, 2021 at 4:20 AM Guido van Rossum wrote:
> >
> > On Fri, Jun 25, 2021 at 8:22 AM Bluenix wrote:
> >>
> >> I am not fully aware of how ssl.SSLContext is used, but adding
> __slots__
On Fri, Jun 25, 2021 at 12:17 PM Christian Heimes
wrote:
> On 25/06/2021 20.17, Guido van Rossum wrote:
> > On Fri, Jun 25, 2021 at 8:22 AM Bluenix > <mailto:bluenix...@gmail.com>> wrote:
> >
> > I am not fully aware of how ssl.SSLContext is used, but addin
n
argument for backticks.
Separately, should there be a way to *delay* evaluation of the templated
expressions (like we explored in our private little prototype last year)?
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f the evaluation is relatively expensive and may never be
needed, e.g. for logging at a level that is off in production. We can
debate whether it's better to mark individual substitutions with something
like {:...} or whether we should mark the template as a whole (obviously
the marking must be u
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, 2021 at 14:28 Paul Prescod wrote:
> On Thu, Aug 19, 2021 at 8:43 AM Guido van Rossum wrote:
>
>> Perhaps we need a library for creating/managing threads that inherits all
>> current context values?
>>
>
> Or is it a "kind of context variable that is shared
efault?
>
>
> --
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On Tue, Aug 24, 2021 at 7:23 PM MRAB wrote:
> On 2021-08-25 00:48, Guido van Rossum wrote:
> > Hi Tim,
> >
> > I'm sorry if this has been brought up before, but *aside from PEP 8* is
> > there anything wrong with using "if len(a)" for nonempty, or "
“Container” is a kind of pun, it’s something with a __contains__ method.
The thing you’re looking for is “Collection”, which is the base for
sequences, mappings and sets.
I also note that the discussion seems quite stuck.
—Guido
On Tue, Aug 24, 2021 at 21:55 Christopher Barker
wrote:
> It seem
What sort of code would be able to do anything useful with either a
sequence or a queue? Queues aren’t iterable. This seems a case of
hyper-generalization.
On Tue, Aug 24, 2021 at 22:19 Christopher Barker
wrote:
> Bringing this back on list:
>
> On Tue, Aug 24, 2021 at 9:58 PM David Mertz, Ph.D.
My conclusion is that you should ignore PEP 8 for your use case and write
“if len(a) == 0”.
On Wed, Aug 25, 2021 at 06:13 Tim Hoffmann via Python-ideas <
python-ideas@python.org> wrote:
> Guido van Rossum wrote:
> > So then the next question is, what's the use case?
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But the text of the error message will explain all you need for debugging
and testing.
On Fri, Sep 3, 2021 at 10:08 AM Christopher Barker
wrote:
>
>
> On Fri, Sep 3, 2021 at 9:35 AM Guido van Rossum wrote:
>
>> The question is, would anyone ever want to make a distinction bet
On Fri, Sep 3, 2021 at 5:04 PM Oscar Benjamin
wrote:
> On Fri, 3 Sept 2021 at 17:32, Guido van Rossum wrote:
> >
> > On Fri, Sep 3, 2021 at 4:24 AM Oscar Benjamin <
> oscar.j.benja...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> On Fri, 3 Sept 2021 at 08:10, Serhiy S
On Fri, Sep 3, 2021 at 5:37 PM Christopher Barker
wrote:
> On Fri, Sep 3, 2021 at 1:13 PM Guido van Rossum wrote:
>
>> But the text of the error message will explain all you need for debugging
>> and testing.
>>
>
> debugging, probably yes.
>
> But it'
On Mon, Sep 6, 2021 at 21:45 Christopher Barker wrote:
> Just use pytest.
>
For third party code I agree, it’s the way to go.
—Guido
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scipy, Cython
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Ooh, that’s a nice idea. If the message is an exception instance, raise it
instead of AssertionError. Unfortunately it’s not 100% backwards
compatible. We could address that with the syntax
assert cond, raise=ExcType(args)
Maybe we could deprecate the case
assert cond, ExcType(args)
So that
This is cool.
AFAIK pytest does something like this. How does your implementation differ?
What is your argument for making this part of the language? Why not a 3rd
party library?
What about asserts that are not used for testing, but as classic “unless
there’s a bug, this should hold”? Those may
Maybe you all could collaborate on a PEP? This sounds a worthy topic.
On Sun, Sep 12, 2021 at 08:37 Serhiy Storchaka wrote:
> 12.09.21 17:28, Guido van Rossum пише:
> > This is cool.
> >
> > AFAIK pytest does something like this. How does your implementation
> differ?
t;
> All that said, I wrote pretty much exactly what you describe just the
> other week for umask().
>
> Cheers,
> Cameron Simpson
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7;d file a bug. :-)
"Bug magnet" is an extremely subjective pejorative term. When the *better*
way to do things (os.workdir()) is harder than the *easy* way to do
(os.chdir()), which is the real bug magnet?
--
--Guido van Rossum (python.org/
ng the CWD, it's already
>> thread-unsafe. It's not because of the new context manager. All
>> `os.workdir()` does is make things easier.
>> However, if it's implemented (which I personally support), there should
>> still of course be a warning in the documenta
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--Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
*Pronouns: he/him **(why is my pronoun here?)*
<http://feministing.com/2015/02/0
On Fri, Sep 24, 2021 at 19:49 Christopher Barker
wrote:
> Alternatively, take the approach taken with distutils and setuptools—
> officially accept that a full featured test framework will be left to third
> parties.
>
I think this is by far the best option. Pytest can evolve much faster than
th
On Fri, Sep 24, 2021 at 22:07 Stephen J. Turnbull <
stephenjturnb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Guido van Rossum writes:
>
> > I think this is by far the best option. Pytest can evolve much faster
> than
> > the stdlib.
>
> Is there no room for making it easier to do
On Sat, Sep 25, 2021 at 00:56 Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Fri, Sep 24, 2021 at 11:23:00PM -0700, Guido van Rossum wrote:
>
> > > Is there no room for making it easier to do this with less invasive
> > > changes to the stdlib, or are Steven d'A's "
e within the Groovy community, also used by
> projects such as `Spock`_.
>
> On top of that, it is very much needed in the Python community as well:
>
> * `Power Assertion was explicitly requested`_ as a feature in the
> `Nimoy`_ testing framework
> * There's a `
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