Re: Free software versus software idea patents

2011-04-13 Thread geremy condra
On Wed, Apr 13, 2011 at 10:50 PM, harrismh777 wrote: > Westley Martínez wrote: > >  I don't  even know one person who has Win7 installed, running, and > likes it... > >  >>  not even one. >  > >  >  Hi, m harris, nice to meet you.  Now you do. >  > >  >  To

Re: [OT] Free software versus software idea patents

2011-04-13 Thread geremy condra
On Wed, Apr 13, 2011 at 10:35 PM, harrismh777 wrote: >    I am sorry, I was not clear and you rightly misunderstood my indirection. > I am not claiming that software describes hardware. Please allow me to > restate. >    Mathematics describes hardware, yet hardware is patentable and > mathematics

Re: [OT] Free software versus software idea patents

2011-04-13 Thread harrismh777
Ian Kelly wrote: There is at least one method of measuring it without resorting to sales figures: logging user-agent data from web browsers. Is it perfectly accurate? Of course not. But there are a number of different organizations that do this, sampling hundreds of thousands of different webs

Re: Free software versus software idea patents

2011-04-13 Thread harrismh777
Westley Martínez wrote: I don't even know one person who has Win7 installed, running, and likes it... > >> not even one. > > > > Hi, m harris, nice to meet you. Now you do. > > > > To the online community: Is there a name for trolling for A by > > advocating for not-A in a way tha

Re: [OT] Free software versus software idea patents

2011-04-13 Thread harrismh777
geremy condra wrote: I'm familiar with the case, and agree with Knuth (and you) that math should not be patentable. I'd also agree that algorithms are mathematics. Critically, algorithms*are not* software. it isn't clear to me that software and computation are synonymous. Lambda calculus on

Re: Egos, heartlessness, and limitations

2011-04-13 Thread Terry Reedy
On 4/13/2011 11:12 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote: Personally, I'm glad that most of Python Dev don't hang around here. We are far better off if Python Dev, you know, actually Devs Python, rather than answering (mostly) easy questions and getting stuck in tar-pits. Since 3.2 was released 45 days ag

Re: Egos, heartlessness, and limitations

2011-04-13 Thread James Mills
On Thu, Apr 14, 2011 at 3:08 PM, John Ladasky wrote: > I may regret wading into a flame-war, but... As long as we leave it at that! :) > I got started with Python in 2002.  I took one look at TKinter, said > "yuck!", and went searching for something else.  Now, wxPython is a > bit clunky for a P

Re: Egos, heartlessness, and limitations

2011-04-13 Thread John Ladasky
I may regret wading into a flame-war, but... I got started with Python in 2002. I took one look at TKinter, said "yuck!", and went searching for something else. Now, wxPython is a bit clunky for a Python programmer because of its strong ties to C++ -- but that's what I chose, and it has served m

Re: Egos, heartlessness, and limitations

2011-04-13 Thread alex23
rantingrick wrote: > We all have jobs James, and we still find the time to help others out > on the list. I don't think "we" has quite the meaning you believe it does. Or "help" for that matter. > Guido is the head of a community. A community that, > remember, *he* started! He built this whole t

Re: Egos, heartlessness, and limitations

2011-04-13 Thread Littlefield, Tyler
>We all have jobs James, and we still find the time to help others out Whose we? Can you point me to a thread within the last 6 months where you actually -helped- someone? >I think he has evolved into a complete jerk (if you ask me) 1) We didn't ask you. 2) If he's been under this rock of his an

Re: Egos, heartlessness, and limitations

2011-04-13 Thread rantingrick
On Apr 13, 10:43 pm, James Mills wrote: > On Thu, Apr 14, 2011 at 1:26 PM, rantingrick wrote: > > And who pissed in Guido's punch bowl anyway? Why is he such an elitist > > now? Why can he not come over once and a while and rub shoulders with > > the little people? He does not have to hang out ev

Re: Egos, heartlessness, and limitations

2011-04-13 Thread rantingrick
On Apr 13, 10:12 pm, Steven D'Aprano wrote: > Personally, I'm glad that most of Python Dev don't hang around here. We > are far better off if Python Dev, you know, actually Devs Python, rather > than answering (mostly) easy questions and getting stuck in tar-pits. Nothing wrong with mediating ou

Re: Egos, heartlessness, and limitations

2011-04-13 Thread James Mills
On Thu, Apr 14, 2011 at 1:26 PM, rantingrick wrote: > And who pissed in Guido's punch bowl anyway? Why is he such an elitist > now? Why can he not come over once and a while and rub shoulders with > the little people? He does not have to hang out every day, just drop > in once a week or month at l

Re: Nested inner classes and inheritance -> namespace problem

2011-04-13 Thread Larry Hastings
On 04/13/2011 07:37 PM, Eric Snow wrote: I suppose you could try something like this: class Outer: global Inner class Inner: class Worker: pass class InnerSubclass(Inner): class Worker(Inner.Worker): pass However, that pollutes your global namespace. If you are worr

Re: looking for libpython31.a 64bit (missing from python-3.1.3.amd64.msi)

2011-04-13 Thread Nathan Coulson
On Wed, Apr 13, 2011 at 7:53 PM, David Cournapeau wrote: > On Thu, Apr 14, 2011 at 11:28 AM, Nathan Coulson wrote: > >> actually figured out a neat trick,  mingw-w64 can link directly to the .dll. >> gcc file.c python31.dll -o file.exe >> >> no .a needed. >> >> http://www.mingw.org/wiki/sampleDLL

Re: Egos, heartlessness, and limitations

2011-04-13 Thread rantingrick
On Apr 13, 10:01 pm, Ryan Kelly wrote: > On Wed, 2011-04-13 at 19:10 -0700, rantingrick wrote: > > On Apr 13, 8:29 pm, Ryan Kelly wrote: > > > On Wed, 2011-04-13 at 17:39 -0700, rantingrick wrote: [...] > Funny you should bring that up.  The folks on python-dev are currently > making a substanti

Re: Egos, heartlessness, and limitations

2011-04-13 Thread Ryan Kelly
On Thu, 2011-04-14 at 03:12 +, Steven D'Aprano wrote: > On Thu, 14 Apr 2011 12:03:15 +1000, Ryan Kelly wrote: > > > On Thu, 2011-04-14 at 11:46 +1000, Chris Angelico wrote: > >> On Thu, Apr 14, 2011 at 11:29 AM, Ryan Kelly wrote: > >> > I weep that your delightful rhetoric is limited to this

Re: automated pep8 reformatter ?

2011-04-13 Thread James Mills
On Thu, Apr 14, 2011 at 1:06 PM, Ben Finney wrote: > Most of those don't have sensible automated responses. There aren't good > automatic answers to “where should this line of code be broken to fit > within 80 columns?” or “where should this end-line comment go instead?”. And of course you are qu

Re: Egos, heartlessness, and limitations

2011-04-13 Thread Steven D'Aprano
On Thu, 14 Apr 2011 12:03:15 +1000, Ryan Kelly wrote: > On Thu, 2011-04-14 at 11:46 +1000, Chris Angelico wrote: >> On Thu, Apr 14, 2011 at 11:29 AM, Ryan Kelly wrote: >> > I weep that your delightful rhetoric is limited to this neglected >> > forum, where the guardians of python core deign not t

Re: automated pep8 reformatter ?

2011-04-13 Thread Ben Finney
James Mills writes: > What I really want is to fix up common "poor" (IHMO) coding styles > in code that I have to maintain/review/etc. Things like: > * Lines longer than 80 characters > * Comments tacked on to the end of statements/expressions > * Use of ' vs. " > * More liberal use of Whitespace

Re: Egos, heartlessness, and limitations

2011-04-13 Thread Ryan Kelly
On Wed, 2011-04-13 at 19:10 -0700, rantingrick wrote: > On Apr 13, 8:29 pm, Ryan Kelly wrote: > > On Wed, 2011-04-13 at 17:39 -0700, rantingrick wrote: > > I would LOVE to improve the doc, however first the student THEN the > teacher. However in this forsaken land the "teachers" do not exist. We

Re: looking for libpython31.a 64bit (missing from python-3.1.3.amd64.msi)

2011-04-13 Thread David Cournapeau
On Thu, Apr 14, 2011 at 11:28 AM, Nathan Coulson wrote: > actually figured out a neat trick,  mingw-w64 can link directly to the .dll. > gcc file.c python31.dll -o file.exe > > no .a needed. > > http://www.mingw.org/wiki/sampleDLL > > (have yet to find out if it actually works yet, but so far loo

Re: Nested inner classes and inheritance -> namespace problem

2011-04-13 Thread Eric Snow
On Wed, Apr 13, 2011 at 3:12 AM, Larry Hastings wrote: > > The problem: if you're currently in a nested class, you can't look up > variables in the outer "class scope". > > For example, this code fails in Python 3: > > class Outer: > class Inner: > class Worker: > pass > > class Inn

Re: automated pep8 reformatter ?

2011-04-13 Thread James Mills
On Thu, Apr 14, 2011 at 12:03 PM, Ben Finney wrote: > A step forward might be the ‘reindent.py’ program included with the > Python distribution. I have tried to use this tool - but it lacks certain features. Maybe I could use this as a starting point in writing such a tool :) What I really want

Re: Egos, heartlessness, and limitations

2011-04-13 Thread Ben Finney
James Mills writes: > On Thu, Apr 14, 2011 at 11:47 AM, Ethan Furman wrote: > > *Please* don't re-post his crap. > > Opps sorry :) I have never really known what to do with big-huge-long > posts ? :) Trim them to a representative sample. Or summarise, if there's no such sample in the original.

Re: looking for libpython31.a 64bit (missing from python-3.1.3.amd64.msi)

2011-04-13 Thread Nathan Coulson
On Wed, Apr 13, 2011 at 7:03 PM, David Cournapeau wrote: > On Wed, Apr 13, 2011 at 5:17 PM, Nathan Coulson wrote: >> Well, as the subject says,  I am looking to find libpython31.a >> [win64bit version] for use in a linux to windows 64bit cross compiler >> [x86_64-w64-mingw32-gcc],  but seems to b

Re: Egos, heartlessness, and limitations

2011-04-13 Thread Westley Martínez
On Wed, 2011-04-13 at 17:39 -0700, rantingrick wrote: > You know Python is the best damn scripting language in the world. > However we harbor a collective secret, an elephant sized skeleton in > the community closet, a shameful scarlet letter of heartlessness and > ego centric-ity. Why is this the

Re: Egos, heartlessness, and limitations

2011-04-13 Thread rantingrick
On Apr 13, 8:29 pm, Ryan Kelly wrote: > On Wed, 2011-04-13 at 17:39 -0700, rantingrick wrote: > Oh rr, if only the time you spent formulating such eloquent prose could > be devoted instead to improving the documentation whose state you > bemoan. I would LOVE to improve the doc, however first the

Re: automated pep8 reformatter ?

2011-04-13 Thread Ben Finney
James Mills writes: > Does anyone know of a tool that will help with reformatting badly > written code to be pep8 compliant ? A step forward might be the ‘reindent.py’ program included with the Python distribution. Many PEP 8 violations can't be automatically fixed, they require the programmer

Re: Egos, heartlessness, and limitations

2011-04-13 Thread James Mills
On Thu, Apr 14, 2011 at 11:47 AM, Ethan Furman wrote: > *Please* don't re-post his crap. Opps sorry :) I have never really known what to do with big-huge-long posts ? :) Won't happen again! cheers James -- -- James Mills -- -- "Problems are solved by method" -- http://mail.python.org/mailman

Re: Egos, heartlessness, and limitations

2011-04-13 Thread Ryan Kelly
On Thu, 2011-04-14 at 11:46 +1000, Chris Angelico wrote: > On Thu, Apr 14, 2011 at 11:29 AM, Ryan Kelly wrote: > > I weep that your delightful rhetoric is limited to this neglected forum, > > where the guardians of python core deign not to tread, and hence denied > > its rightful place exalted amo

Re: looking for libpython31.a 64bit (missing from python-3.1.3.amd64.msi)

2011-04-13 Thread David Cournapeau
On Wed, Apr 13, 2011 at 5:17 PM, Nathan Coulson wrote: > Well, as the subject says,  I am looking to find libpython31.a > [win64bit version] for use in a linux to windows 64bit cross compiler > [x86_64-w64-mingw32-gcc],  but seems to be missing. > > so far,  tried installing it on a real 64bit win

Re: automated pep8 reformatter ?

2011-04-13 Thread James Mills
On Thu, Apr 14, 2011 at 11:47 AM, James Mills wrote: > Does anyone know of a tool that will help with > reformatting badly written code to be pep8 compliant ? > > a 2to3 for pep8 ? In case there is no such tool (And I don't have the time to write one) I've found this to be really useful (so far):

Re: Egos, heartlessness, and limitations

2011-04-13 Thread Ethan Furman
James Mills wrote: On Thu, Apr 14, 2011 at 10:39 AM, rantingrick wrote: [weapon of mass-snippitude] James, *Please* don't re-post his crap. ~Ethan~ -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

automated pep8 reformatter ?

2011-04-13 Thread James Mills
Does anyone know of a tool that will help with reformatting badly written code to be pep8 compliant ? a 2to3 for pep8 ? cheers James -- -- James Mills -- -- "Problems are solved by method" -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: Egos, heartlessness, and limitations

2011-04-13 Thread Ryan Kelly
On Wed, 2011-04-13 at 17:39 -0700, rantingrick wrote: > > - > 1. Poor documentation (or lack thereof): > - > Everyone knows that dcoumentation is important however at the end of > the day laziness is the rule of thumb f

Re: Egos, heartlessness, and limitations

2011-04-13 Thread rantingrick
On Apr 13, 8:10 pm, James Mills wrote: > On Thu, Apr 14, 2011 at 10:39 AM, rantingrick wrote: [...] Hello James, Whist your post was a bit abrasive i know you are a good person so that is why i am replying. > It would be nice for once to see you get off your > lazy "butt" and actually do somet

Re: Egos, heartlessness, and limitations

2011-04-13 Thread James Mills
On Thu, Apr 14, 2011 at 10:39 AM, rantingrick wrote: > You know Python is the best damn scripting language in the world. > However we harbor a collective secret,  an elephant sized skeleton in > the community closet, a shameful scarlet letter of heartlessness and > ego centric-ity. Why is this the

Re: Egos, heartlessness, and limitations

2011-04-13 Thread Littlefield, Tyler
RR: I do have to ask, before I feed the troll, where the hell is your spellchecker? And you were talking about people being lazy? The irony is killing me. Now, you've been told you can fork Idol if you so choose, and you've been told to write up information on how you want to replace TKInter

Egos, heartlessness, and limitations

2011-04-13 Thread rantingrick
You know Python is the best damn scripting language in the world. However we harbor a collective secret, an elephant sized skeleton in the community closet, a shameful scarlet letter of heartlessness and ego centric-ity. Why is this the case? Why have let it go this far? And most importantly, why

Re: Python & Sybase

2011-04-13 Thread Ivan
Chris, There are few more, depending which sybase database. More info on this link: http://wiki.python.org/moin/Sybase Cheers, Ivan On Thu, Apr 14, 2011 at 6:36 AM, Dan Stromberg wrote: > http://www.freetds.org/ > > There's likely also one you could get from your database admin. > > On Wed, A

Re: Forcing absolute package imports in 2.7?

2011-04-13 Thread Aahz
In article , Michael Parker wrote: > >I'm reading Learning Python 4th Edition by Lutz. In the section on >relative package imports, he says: "In Python 3.0, the `import >modname` statement is always absolute, skipping the containing >package=92s directory. In 2.6, this statement form still perfor

virtualenv problem on win32

2011-04-13 Thread Danny Shevitz
Howdy, I'm trying to use virtualenv for the first time and having endless grief. I have upgraded my python distribution to the latest 2.7 distribution and it is completely clean. I have prepended my path environment variable with c:\python27 and c:\python27\scripts. I have installed: setuptools

Re: Postmortem on Unladen Swallow

2011-04-13 Thread Dan Stromberg
I'm not sure I'd call it a failure. It didn't achieve the speedup they hoped for, but they did successfully get CPython running overtop of LLVM. That is, their intended approach didn't pan out, but they successfully implemented their approach. And just as importantly, Pypy was looking like it'd

Re: Python & Sybase

2011-04-13 Thread Dan Stromberg
http://www.freetds.org/ There's likely also one you could get from your database admin. On Wed, Apr 13, 2011 at 8:40 AM, Chris M. Bartos wrote: > Hi, > > Are there any database drivers that allows Python to connect to remote > Sybase Databases. > I tried python-sybase, but somehow couldn't get i

Re: looking for libpython31.a 64bit (missing from python-3.1.3.amd64.msi)

2011-04-13 Thread Martin v. Loewis
Am 13.04.2011 10:17, schrieb Nathan Coulson: > Well, as the subject says, I am looking to find libpython31.a > [win64bit version] for use in a linux to windows 64bit cross compiler > [x86_64-w64-mingw32-gcc], but seems to be missing. I wouldn't call it "missing", but "just not there". I had no i

Postmortem on Unladen Swallow

2011-04-13 Thread John Nagle
There's a postmortem on the failure of Unladen Swallow by one of the developers at: http://qinsb.blogspot.com/2011/03/unladen-swallow-retrospective.html John Nagle -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: split string but ignore sep inside double quotes

2011-04-13 Thread Andrea Crotti
Andrea Crotti writes: > > I'm not sure how but also this seems to work: > In[20]: s = '2,"some, text",more text' > > In [21]: re.split(r'(?<=">),', s) > Out[21]: ['2,"some, text",more text'] > > I just wanted to try the lookahead functions, which I never use but > sometimes might come handy. Eh e

Re: split string but ignore sep inside double quotes

2011-04-13 Thread Andrea Crotti
Jonno writes: > All, > > I have the following unicode object: > u'3,"Some, text",more text' > > and I want to split it into a list like this: > [3,"Some, text", more text] > > In other words I want to split on the comma but not if it's inside a > double-quote. > > Thanks. I'm not sure how but al

Re: Loading Modules

2011-04-13 Thread Peter Otten
Cornelius Kölbel wrote: > I am wondering about loading modules.What is a good way of doing this? > > In my code I got one single function, where I need some functionality > from a built-in module. built-in modules are always imported by definition, so you cannot save space or time by moving the

Python & Sybase

2011-04-13 Thread Chris M. Bartos
Hi, Are there any database drivers that allows Python to connect to remote Sybase Databases. I tried python-sybase, but somehow couldn't get it to connect remotely, only locally...? Thanks for your help, -- Christopher M. Bartos bartos...@osu.edu 330-324-0018 Systems Developer Arabidopsis B

Loading Modules

2011-04-13 Thread Cornelius Kölbel
Hello list, I am wondering about loading modules.What is a good way of doing this? In my code I got one single function, where I need some functionality from a built-in module. Is it a better way to load the module only within the function pro: the function will only be hit every now and then

Re: split string but ignore sep inside double quotes

2011-04-13 Thread Tim Golden
On 13/04/2011 15:59, Jonno wrote: I have the following unicode object: u'3,"Some, text",more text' and I want to split it into a list like this: [3,"Some, text", more text] In other words I want to split on the comma but not if it's inside a double-quote. You want the csv module which is desi

split string but ignore sep inside double quotes

2011-04-13 Thread Jonno
All, I have the following unicode object: u'3,"Some, text",more text' and I want to split it into a list like this: [3,"Some, text", more text] In other words I want to split on the comma but not if it's inside a double-quote. Thanks. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: How to use optparse without the command line?

2011-04-13 Thread Miki Tebeka
> But I find it dumb to encode and decode a dictionary... So I would > like to know how I if there is a good way of passing a dictionary to > optparse and benefiting from its option management (check, error > detection, etc). I don't think you can get away from encoding/decoding the option dictiona

Re: How to use optparse without the command line?

2011-04-13 Thread markolopa
On Apr 8, 11:58 pm, Karim wrote: > On 04/07/2011 10:37 AM, markolopa wrote: > > > Is there support/idioms/suggestions for usingoptparsewithout a > >commandline? > > > I have a code which used to be called through subprocess. The whole > > flow of the code is based on what 'options' object fromoptp

Help

2011-04-13 Thread Venkatesh Sanganal
Hello Sir, > > We are using WATSUP(Python) package for MFC GUI automation(developed in > Visual Studio 2005), We wanted your suppor, since we are having some issues > listed below; > > 1.How can we get handle of Ultimate grid control (Ultimate tool box 7) in a > MFC application so that we can

Re: Feature suggestion -- return if true

2011-04-13 Thread Teemu Likonen
* 2011-04-12T13:26:48-07:00 * Chris Rebert wrote: > I think Ben "Yahtzee" Croshaw's comments on open-world sandbox video > games (of all things) have a lot of applicability to why allowing > full-on macros can be a bad idea. > IOW, a language is usually better for having such discussions and > ha

Re: file deleted

2011-04-13 Thread Andrea Crotti
luca72 writes: > hello i'm working with eric, running a program eric crash and when i > try to open my project again with eric i see that myproject.py is > deleted, but my project is still running there is a way to find > myprogram.py file aving it in execution? It's more about your operating sy

Re: Nested inner classes and inheritance -> namespace problem

2011-04-13 Thread Jean-Michel Pichavant
Larry Hastings wrote: The problem: if you're currently in a nested class, you can't look up variables in the outer "class scope". For example, this code fails in Python 3: class Outer: class Inner: class Worker: pass class InnerSubclass(Inner): clas

Re: pyc to py

2011-04-13 Thread Chris Rebert
On Wed, Apr 13, 2011 at 2:46 AM, luca72 wrote: > I have pyc file written with python 2.6.5 and i need to return to py > file, can you give me some ideas tools script etc. http://www.crazy-compilers.com/decompyle/ Cheers, Chris -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

pyc to py

2011-04-13 Thread luca72
I have pyc file written with python 2.6.5 and i need to return to py file, can you give me some ideas tools script etc. Luca -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: Nested inner classes and inheritance -> namespace problem

2011-04-13 Thread James Mills
On Wed, Apr 13, 2011 at 7:12 PM, Larry Hastings wrote: > Yes, I could make the problem go away if I didn't have nested inner classes > like this.  But I like this structure.  Any idea how I can make it work > while preserving the nesting and inheritance? It's probably better to make use of module

Nested inner classes and inheritance -> namespace problem

2011-04-13 Thread Larry Hastings
The problem: if you're currently in a nested class, you can't look up variables in the outer "class scope". For example, this code fails in Python 3: class Outer: class Inner: class Worker: pass class InnerSubclass(Inner): class Worker(Inner.Worker):

Re: Do UART require data structure/format for serial communication?

2011-04-13 Thread VGNU Linux
Actually I am trying to data communication between these 2 chips, but facing troubles in deciding a protocol to do the same. Do UART have any default protocols? For the moment I am trying to do it with Strings but not sure if that's the right solution. Regards, Vivek On Mon, Apr 11, 2011 at 11:43

looking for libpython31.a 64bit (missing from python-3.1.3.amd64.msi)

2011-04-13 Thread Nathan Coulson
Well, as the subject says, I am looking to find libpython31.a [win64bit version] for use in a linux to windows 64bit cross compiler [x86_64-w64-mingw32-gcc], but seems to be missing. so far, tried installing it on a real 64bit windows system, cabextract, as well as msiexec /a python-3.1.3.amd64

file deleted

2011-04-13 Thread luca72
hello i'm working with eric, running a program eric crash and when i try to open my project again with eric i see that myproject.py is deleted, but my project is still running there is a way to find myprogram.py file aving it in execution? -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list