David Hopwood wrote:
> Darren New wrote:
>
>>David Hopwood wrote:
>>
>>
>>>public class LoopInitTest {
>>>public static String getString() { return "foo"; }
>>>
>>>public static void main(String[] args) {
&g
Darren New wrote:
> Now, if the "insert line into inputs" actually unset "line", then yes,
> you're right, Hermes would complain about this.
Oh, I see. You translated from Hermes into Java, and Java doesn't have
the "insert into" statement. I
could be made
sufficiently intelligent to track most simple versions of this problem
and not complain, by carrying around conditionals in the typestate
description.
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ither. I think that's where the
equality comes into it.
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ded "realtime" constraints to it.
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Chris Smith wrote:
> Darren New <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>>I'm not sure what linear or uniqueness typing is. It's typestate, and if
>>I remember correctly the papers I read 10 years ago, the folks at
>>TJWatson that invented Hermes also invented th
nowadays complain about uninitialized
variables, dead code, etc. But for lots of types of programs, it let you
do all kinds of things with a good assurance that they'd work safely and
efficiently. It was really a language for writing operating systems in,
when you get right down to it.
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;d say x was mutable, with no "identity" problems involved?
Why is it problematic that variables have identity and are mutable?
Certainly I can later "find" whatever value I put into x.
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t
mutability - which is
> present in almost all imperative languages I know. :-)
I disagree. It's entirely possible to make sophisticated imperitive
languages with assignment and without aliasing.
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enerated automatically from a description of the
semantics of the input stream and the semantics of the machine the code
is to run on. I'm pretty sure we're not there yet, and I'm pretty sure
you start running into the limits of computability if you do that.
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generate moves" routine.
Precondition: An input board with a valid configuration of chess pieces.
Postcondition: An array of boards with possible next moves for the
selected team. Heck, if you could write those as assertions, you
wouldn't need the code.
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would work.
x := read_integer_from_stdin();
write_to_stdout(myarray[x]);
What does the programmer have to do to implement this semantic in the
sort of language you're talking about? Surely something somewhere along
the line has to "fail" (for some meaning of failure) at run-time, yes?
o. Just not in a way visible to the programmer. The compiler
manages to optimize out most places that different names consistantly
refer to the same value.
[2] There aren't subroutines. Just processes, with their own address
space, to which you send and receive messages.
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of
postconditions to optimize code or eliminate run-time checks (like null
pointer testing).
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the equation
there. Sadly, Hermes went the way of the dodo.
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te well if the language takes advantage of it
consistantly and allows you to designate your expected typestates and such.
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Joachim Durchholz wrote:
> That's actually not a design choice
It's certainly a choice you can get wrong, as you say. ;-)
I mean, if "without runtime safety" is a choice, I expect picking the
wrong choice here can be. :-)
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, right? gets() is "safe" as
long as you don't read more than the buffer you allocated.
What's the difference between "safe" and "well-defined semantics"?
(Ignoring for the moment things like two threads modifying the same
memory at the same time and other
Xah Lee wrote:
> If you know a lang that does full unicode support, please let me know.
Tcl. You may have to modify the "source" command to get it to default
to something other than the system encoding, but this is trivial in Tcl.
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Marshall wrote:
> Also: has subtyping polymorphism or not, has parametric polymorphism or
> not.
And covariant or contravariant.
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Dr.Ruud wrote:
> You can write self-modifying code in C,
No, by violating the standards and invoking undefined behavior, you can
write self-modifying code. I wouldn't say you're still "in C" any more, tho.
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Native Am
uate "type" with what
smalltalk calls "protocol" (i.e., the type is the collection of
operators applicable to values in the type), these are two different
statements.
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Eliot Miranda wrote:
> classes do _not_ have to inherit from Object,
I was unaware of this subtlety. Thanks!
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Marshall wrote:
> I can't see how you'd call + on a and b if you think they might
> not be numbers.
Now substitute "<" for "+" and see if you can make the same argument. :-)
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nting doesNotUnderstand.
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John W. Kennedy wrote:
> 360-family assembler, yes. 8086-family assembler, not so much.
And Burroughs B-series, not at all. There was one "ADD" instruction, and
it looked at the data in the addresses to determine whether to add ints
or floats. :-)
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ng compiles perfectly fine (using GNU Pascal):
That'll teach me to rely on 15-year-old memories. :-) Maybe I'm
remembering the wishful thinking from when I used Pascal.
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. :-)
Yah. :-)
> (Btw, Pascal did not have it either, AFAIK)
I'm pretty sure in Pascal you could say
Type Apple = Integer; Orange = Integer;
and then vars of type apple and orange were not interchangable.
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con? Perl? (Hmmm... Pascal does, IIRC.) I guess you just work
with better languages than I do. :-)
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gs like usual OO languages (Eiffel,
Smalltalk, etc) to have "abstract data types".
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a new type that has the exact same
underlying representation and isomorphically identical operations but
not be the same type is something I find myself often missing in
languages. It's nice to be able to say "this integer represents vertical
pixel count, and that represents horizont
clear the difference between a value of (type T) and a
value of (type T or one of its subtypes).
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Rob Thorpe wrote:
> Darren New wrote:
>>Rob Thorpe wrote:
>>>The values themselves have no type information associated with them.
>>int x = (int) (20.5 / 3);
> In that case it knew because it could see at compile time.
Well, yes. That's the point of static typing.
it doesn't.
int x = (int) 20.5;
There's no point at which bits from the floating point representation
appear in the variable x.
int * x = (int *) 0;
There's nothing that indicates all the bits of "x" are zero, and indeed
in some hardware configurations they aren't.
-
to strings. How could this be determined at
compile time if "hello" and "there" don't have types?
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example of a heterogenous list that would be awkward in
a statically strongly-typed language. The arguments to printf() count,
methinks. What would the second argument to apply be if the first
argument is printf (since I'm reading this in the LISP group)?
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;
or some such.
Second, what's the type of the argument that printf, sprintf, fprintf,
kprintf, etc all pass to the subroutine that actually does the
formatting? (Called vprintf, I think?)
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Joachim Durchholz wrote:
> Give a heterogenous list that would to too awkward to live in a
> statically-typed language.
Printf()?
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's useful.
See the Tcl "unknown" proc, used for interactive command expansion,
dynamic loading of code on demand, etc.
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